The true face of terrorists in America

What you say is true, but their groth rate is testimony to it actually working for them. Maybe we could change their model to better fit our own needs and adress our realities. All in all it is a solution for many problems, I think the down side is getting it of the concept stage. Europe has had this on the back burner for a while. They just needed time to work it out, and will need more time to work the bugs out.

maybe we should serve the needs of the world while serving our own. I think both are related.

Originally posted by newyorkee
maybe we should serve the needs of the world while serving our own. I think both are related.

Our needs come first. To us anyways.

Then we should not try to stay a world super power because our actions directly influence the world as a whole. Its about being responsible so as for it all to last. To say that it is impossible to take care of our own while being part of the world scene(which we largely are) would only be beleivable comming from a relatively poor and insignificant country (politically speaking). Not comming from a country that is the pinicle of world wealth. I just dont buy it, its propaganda with an agenda. A distraction.

[edit on 13-8-2007 by newyorkee]

Originally posted by newyorkee
maybe we should serve the needs of the world while serving our own. I think both are related.

Why the heck should we worry about the people in Africa or wherever when we have plenty of homeless people and people stuck in poverty in our own country?

Also how is ending national borders a good thing? A border is what defines a nation's very existence and without it the said nation does not exist. I hope you are not one of those Reconquista/Aztlan types.

Originally posted by ninthaxis
Why shouldn't it be our problem? If your family was in need, you would consider it your problem right? You might even extend that to your neighbors or someone at your church. But the second its a human across a national border the attitude is screw them.

They can't help being born a non-american anymore than you can help being born an american. Circumstances are outside of everyone's control. If I thought for one second I would better my life and my family's by moving to some other country I would find a way, regardless of the immigration laws in place. If I could do it legally, great, better chance of it working, but I would resort to illegal immigration if I had to.

I understand your point. But I think that the issue is that Americans have laid quiet for quite some time but the people who are here illegally have been qetting quite vocal about their unhappiness at being treated unfairly.

I think that if the immigrants were not causing crime, complaining about their illgal position, wanting everything in spanish, wanting the Star Spangled BAnner sang in Spanish, and giving an *f you attitude, Americans wouldn't be so chagrined.

I have personally experienced some outright hostility from some immigrants just for simply being American,minding my own business.

They are not just looking for an easier life, crossing the border is not the only law they are breaking. They are hard workers, and work hard at working the system.They know what they are doing.
I will see large hispanic gatherings at the local swimming holes. There are all these brand new vehicles lined up. How are people who are barely making a liveable wage driving new vehicles and wearing Gap?

As someone who works with one of the offices that hand out WIC,medicaid,and free health care, everyday I see hordes of illegal immigrants come in, get their free healthcare, their free food stamps, all at the cost of the taxpayer. They are horrible to the government workers, always copping an attitude. Sometimes only demanding to speak to the latin workers.
Now here is a kicker, do you know that in order for government offices to get a translator for all the illegal immigrants to translate their healthcare costs $240 an hour?That is our tax dollars at work.

I would leave the office and get on the elevator to hear them say awful things about the Americans that just paid for their welfare.
The women are dressed in new brand name clothes. Their kids are better dressed them mine, and then they all get into their brand new SUVs and leave. I am not the only one who notices this. All the people who work these jobs experience this every single day.

So they get free benefits, free schooling, they don't pay taxes, they don't pay for the civil services, including all the police and fire to handle their crimes. Yet they call us A****?

And you wonder why we are angry?

I liken it to someone devoting their holiday to serving in a soup kitchen for the homeless,and a homeless person throws the food on them, call them a jerk for feeding them garbage, and how dare they treat them that way, yet they are sober and sane. What would you do? Kick them out.

Originally posted by ChrisF231

Why the heck should we worry about the people in Africa or wherever when we have plenty of homeless people and people stuck in poverty in our own country?

Also how is ending national borders a good thing? A border is what defines a nation's very existence and without it the said nation does not exist. I hope you are not one of those Reconquista/Aztlan types.

Chris, unfortunately, these are the types of decisions that the "future" of America will be making for us. When you realize that, you quickly realize that America has no future unless those who truly have pride in this country rebel.

Originally posted by nixie_nox



But I think that the issue is that Americans have laid quiet for quite some time but the people who are here illegally have been qetting quite vocal about their unhappiness at being treated unfairly.

I think that if the immigrants were not causing crime, complaining about their illgal position, wanting everything in spanish, wanting the Star Spangled BAnner sang in Spanish, and giving an *f you attitude, Americans wouldn't be so chagrined.

I think to an extent, you are correct. Americans, at least I am, tired of illegals demanding that we assimilate to their way of life rather than them assimilating to ours. They are, at least from what I have seen and heard, disrespectful guests.

[edit on 13-8-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

No I just think that the road to progress as per the signs of an ever increasingly interdependant world economies would lead us on that track. We would be backwards not to take the example of the European union. They still have their borders and distinct countries, just with greater freedom and prosperity for all. It worked for them why not here.

If you work in a government office and see abuses of people in Great living conditions report them and cancell their assistance. If not you are guilty of compliance. I think that this is classic disinfo. Most people on welfare are women and children who actually need the help. it is a falasy to think that the government is so dumb they cant figure out who deservies the help or not. The abuses just get more press.

Plus most immigrants want to incorperate the american life style, as they favor it to their own. They really respect us.

[edit on 13-8-2007 by newyorkee]

Right on Speaker, it is up to my generation (im 19) to save America. I see it everyday where I live on Long Island and its getting worse and worse and we are nowhere near the Mexican border so I cant even begin to imagine what its like in California, Arizona, etc.

I see them give me a dirty look and call me a "gringo" as I am on line at a store, buying lunch, etc. I see them driving around with Mexican, El Salvadoran, Guatemalan, Puerto Rican (even though its a US territory the Latinos seem to think its an independent nation), Dominican, etc flags and I go to college with Hispanic kids who talk about how proud they are to be Dominican, Salvadoran, etc yet they were born in the US and have never been to those places except for visits to family or vacations. What ever happened to assimilation or the 2nd and 3rd generational changes of gradually becoming more "Americanized"? If anything, the ones that are born here are even worse then their 1st generation immigrant parents and family members.

It really baffles me, their arrogance and hatred of this country is astonishing. As they saying goes, they shouldent bite the hand that feeds them because one day that hand will turn around and b---h slap them all the way back to whatever country they are filled with pride for. I only hope that day comes before its to late to save our country.

[edit on 13-8-2007 by ChrisF231]

Originally posted by nixie_nox
So they get free benefits, free schooling, they don't pay taxes, they don't pay for the civil services, including all the police and fire to handle their crimes. Yet they call us A****?

And you wonder why we are angry?

I liken it to someone devoting their holiday to serving in a soup kitchen for the homeless,and a homeless person throws the food on them, call them a jerk for feeding them garbage, and how dare they treat them that way, yet they are sober and sane. What would you do? Kick them out.

If ATS still had it, you would get my "Way Above" award.
Awesome post. The problems here in America come FIRST.
That doesn't mean we have stop all efforts across the world,
but the issues here at home take precedence.

that attitude described is not representitive of the common sentiment of immigrants here today, or ever. This is backwards thinking. They want to be part of our society, pay taxes, do their fair share. They have proven this time and time again. with all the profesionals comming out of the hispanic community as well as all the bussiness owners and people who invest in our country. Give them a chance and they would all participate in a meaningful way here. Dont be blind man, they dont want beef with us, just a win win situation for both us and them. the ones who dont like us dont come here, arguements otherwise are not based on reality

[edit on 13-8-2007 by newyorkee]

NewYorkee, I think you understand my position, fairly decently. I really have not got a beef with Hispanics in general... However, how many more are we expected to allow into this country? How long do you think the U.S is going to be able to sustain this influx before the whole damn system collapses? You see, liberalism has a bunch of great humanitarian ideas. However, they are made without much forethought about the consequences of those humanitarian ideas.

You can't just keep giving and giving and giving, without something breaking down. It just doesn't work that way.

Originally posted by newyorkee
that attitude described is not representitive of the common sentiment of immigrants here today, or ever.
[edit on 13-8-2007 by newyorkee]

Unfortunately the topic at hand isn't about immigrants
(who I presume came here legally)
This is about ILLEGAL immigrants and their affect on Americans.

Its not liberalism. I know what you are saying, but I argue that it is a matter of progress. How do we expect to fit in , in a globally interdependant world with backwards ideas of principal land ownership, when in reality global commerce, the engine of the world, does not support that platform. it does support a complex system of idea sharing and cultural exchange reagrdless of borders. It does so because it has been proven profitable. it is not against our interest to bring the world to our door step. It saves us the trip, if you know what I mean. Bad example but true none the less.

what i said applies to both leagal and illegal as they are both immigrants


I say that with the steady increase of immigration for the last 50 years next to the rate of economic growth for that time, it could be argued that there is no socio-ecconomic evidece that is truely representitive of the adverse effects immigration has had on our economy. It can be argued though that the growth they are responsible for has led to our greater collective fortune. they are good consumers, and statistically most work, which means they produce for us.

[edit on 13-8-2007 by newyorkee]

Originally posted by newyorkee
that attitude described is not representitive of the common sentiment of immigrants here today, or ever. This is backwards thinking. They want to be part of our society, pay taxes, do their fair share. They have proven this time and time again. with all the profesionals comming out of the hispanic community as well as all the bussiness owners and people who invest in our country. Give them a chance and they would all participate in a meaningful way here. Dont be blind man, they dont want beef with us, just a win win situation for both us and them. the ones who dont like us dont come here, arguements otherwise are not based on reality

[edit on 13-8-2007 by newyorkee]

They have a chance man, They can come here legally! All of those business owners and the such you are speaking of are here legally.
You are talking like no one wants them here period.

I just want them to be legal so they have much to lose and can be held accountable just like legal Americans when they mess up. Instead they want to be some kind of hybrid citizen that does not have to abide buy our laws or pay the dues everyone else does.

I agree the laws concerning immigration are not representitive of the influx of immigrants we are actually getting. They must adress them in greater numbers to legalize them and make them responsible for their contributions and hinderances.

Originally posted by newyorkee
Its not liberalism. I know what you are saying, but I argue that it is a matter of progress.

Yes, the idea of basically having open borders and creating this huge conglomerate and globalist society is a very liberal idea.

[edit on 13-8-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]