Does truth matter?

Originally posted by Quazga

Originally posted by Equinox99

To you it may seem that way, however to other people it looked like a big
setup.
Just imagine we lived in a world where the truth was always told, then
we would not need to go out and search for it.

I think you unwittingly made my point.

However, you couldn't really have a world where truth is always told. At best, you could have a world where people tell what they honestly believe to be the truth. Even then, so many half-truths and mis-truths would be told, that the difference would be nill.

Exactly, if we did have a world where truth was always told then we
it would not matter because we will always know the truth.
But now where we have the government that lies to us and big corporations
that lie to us, we need to search for it.

Originally posted by Equinox99

Originally posted by Quazga

Originally posted by Equinox99

To you it may seem that way, however to other people it looked like a big
setup.
Just imagine we lived in a world where the truth was always told, then
we would not need to go out and search for it.

I think you unwittingly made my point.

However, you couldn't really have a world where truth is always told. At best, you could have a world where people tell what they honestly believe to be the truth. Even then, so many half-truths and mis-truths would be told, that the difference would be nill.

Exactly, if we did have a world where truth was always told then we
it would not matter because we will always know the truth.
But now where we have the government that lies to us and big corporations
that lie to us, we need to search for it.

Ok, so let's get existential for a bit.

For us to "always know the truth", we would have to be much more than human. Actually, this is the mystical basis for why we are seen as "fallible" in some religions. Because our senses only process the tiniest fraction of what actually exists.

This, mixed with the fact that our senses only relay approximations of external stimulus. Means we have no physical way of even percieving truth.

Now let's add another layer of complexity that requires us to filter the data we have received from our senses through our cultural and individual lenses of "projection", "identification", etc and what we end up with in our minds is typically nothing even close to the original stimulus that generated the sense impressions.

Hegel wrote an entire book on this subject called "The Phenomenology of Spirit" in which he makes these exact points.

You can check it here...

en.wikipedia.org...

His conclusion is that we have no chance of knowing "Truth". The best we can hope for is a "Workable Truth". Basically a guide that is good enough for the most part.

Based on this premise, it would be impossible to imagine a world where the truth is always known by humans.

Originally posted by Quazga

At the end of the day, even if we think we know what truth is... does it really matter? No one listens to anyone else anyway.

Q,

I'm listening, Oh Pearl of great price! Will you.
You just have to 'wait' on God's Spirit' who is promised to 'come' to you, that's all, my friend. And He who is hesitating 'will come' when you least expect it. Like how God 'happened to me' I wasn't expecting God to 'show up' in my world,.....but He did. And now, I wait upon Him for what He will do again. And that walk has been WONDERFUL!!! But the trials have been breaking for me, but God has not left me, it just makes me strong. Just like when a hot metal is hammed onto to make it's shape and then when it's dunked into the water it's form is sealed.

Consider taking this to heart:
John 16:13
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

U2U me any time!

Your Patient Sister,
Connie


[edit on 8/14/2007 by Jesus-Is-Real]

Que is Veritas?

I don't think anyone has the truth, or at least not enough of it,for it to matter.

[edit on 14-8-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

IMO, Truth is not always concrete. There are so often too many unknowns and too many assumptions. It's often abstract.

What I'm trying to say is that it's our perception of what the truth is that makes the world go round.

People constantly make decisions on their perceptions of the truth. Just look around ATS and you'll see people have really different perceptions of what the truth is on any given topic.

So does truth matter? heck yeah. People come to ATS to seek truth. People continue to learn as adults because they are seeking the truth about something. Only problem is, is that everybody sees truth differently.

Pick almost any subject and you will get different versions of the truth.

Like somebody else said, it's the personal truths that matter. What is true for you, and what becomes true for you as you grow and learn more is what is important. Continue asking questions and continue seeking answers and you can feel more confident that your perception of the truth may be more true than those who spend less time seeking truth.

I have a question for you Quazga.

Do you remember the first time you found the ATS website? What did you search for that lead you here?

okay, more than one question. Specifically, were you searching for the truth about something? And do you feel like you are closer to that truth now than you were before you started looking?

I personally remember searching for the truth about something and I found ATS. The truth mattered enough to me to look for it in the first place. That's why I say truth matters to me. The Truth mattered enough to seek it.

Originally posted by Quazga
How many times have I seen the wrong guy get convicted.

How many times has the liar been the one who comes out on top?

How many wars have been fought in the name of countless different gods that different peoples believe in.

How many different gods have been worshipped?

How many times has Global warming been cheered and jeered?

Is Milk even good for you? Everyone has a different opinion.

At the end of the day, even if we think we know what truth is... does it really matter? No one listens to anyone else anyway.

I was waiting for someone to start a thread like this, i was thinking about making it myself.

Anyway when i come here i dont search for the truth, i want to see other peoples oppinions so that i can broaden my mind to knew possibilities and challenge my existing point-of-view. I can definately know a lie and defend it fiercely just to see peoples arguments and understand their view on it,(im known for doing that) i really dont care if it is the truth unless it directly effects me.

[edit on 14-8-2007 by tankthinker]

But when you come to see opinions from other people, when you see how
much evidence they provide wouldn't that make you go searching for more
truth?
I first came on here, I did not know anything about aliens, 2012, conspiracy
theories etc. But in time I did my research and started finding more and more
truth. Now I am not going to say I found the truth for everything I was looking
for, but for some questions I found what I thought was the truth.
I believe it is important for us to search for the truth, because if we do not do
it you will have politicians, and corporations feeding us so many lies it will
make our heads spin.
But I guess in the end it comes down to the type of person you are.

Actually i first came to ATS because of my interest in ufos. This is really the best place to find the latest "news" about the topic.

Over the last week though, I had my wisdom teeth out and slot of time on my hands.

i'll probably drop off now... But its been fun!

Originally posted by Quazga
How many times have I seen the wrong guy get convicted.

How many times has the liar been the one who comes out on top?

How many wars have been fought in the name of countless different gods that different peoples believe in.

How many different gods have been worshipped?

How many times has Global warming been cheered and jeered?

Is Milk even good for you? Everyone has a different opinion.

At the end of the day, even if we think we know what truth is... does it really matter? No one listens to anyone else anyway.

I know how you feel brother. I know how you feel. You must always aspire to truth. You must realize that truth is the only thing that is devine. There exists no truth in war, that is manufactured, by men, for the satisfaction of men, who have not truth, for they value money above truth. This world is not of truth, but, rather of deception. The world is not you, you are what you make true. Faith in truth, is not a weakness as many perceive, for truth is not in them who would soil that which is divine. There is only truth, all else is failure to evolve to your highest order or calling, a failure to recognize that the highest desires for goodness are in each of us, but, that the weakness of humanity are also in us. And so, we fall, unless we believe we can prevail against that which brings us down, that which causes us to fail ourselves, our ultimate destiny, it is a lack, it is nothing more than a lack of faith in the goodness that in the beginning man began from. You have to admitt that it was some kind of wonderful, that brought us to this question.

The only answer is truth, and we may be outside of our physical realm before we can actually understand truth, for there exists only a part of it in us, that is the part of us that knows things, and chooses to acknowledge them, or deny them. That is what being humane is, making a choice, about where you want to go from here, this is not the end of our journey. Choose wisely, grasshopper.

Do you speak of truth or absolute truth. They say there is truth in beauty and beauty in truth, but this is all subjective, beauty being in the eye of the beholder. Truth is in the mind of the person hearing it.
But absolute truth is around you to be grasped by those who are brave enough to see.
There is truth in war, and in pain, and in suffering. But there is also truth in love, and kindness and in the joy of true friendship and fellowship.
You can't run around expecting others to show you the truth, because they can't. It isn't something that can be bottled and distilled and poured out for exibition.
I've found truth, but I can't give it to you. I can only show you the way to find it for yourself. But be warned, it is a dangerous journey with many false steps.
Look into the face of a cherished one as they die holding your hand.
Lock eyes with a baby as they laugh.
Go out and do that thing that terrifies you most in all the world.
Experience true pain of body and spirit.
Find the one true joy in life that sets you free.
Then look into the mirror and see who you really are for the first time.
Then you will be on the path of absolute truth.

Truth is relative, not absolute

Originally posted by 420prajna
Truth is relative, not absolute

Nah, I think there is absolute truth. We just are not conscious enough to see it.

[edit on 17-8-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]