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Do Iraqis have the Right to Resist Occupation?

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posted on Jan, 14 2004 @ 11:48 AM
Excellent question, and excellent article. Do Iraqis have the right to resist against the US Occupation? Do they have the right to strike against the military to try and topple the Occupation Authority?

Well according to me, of course they do. If Russia invaded Canada, and their bombs killed members of my family, I would definitely be lining up to take shots at some of my Russki occupiers. Isn't that patriotism?

"Do Iraqis Have a Right to Resist?
Outside the Spectacle

If you prick us do we not bleed?
If you tickle us do we not laugh?
If you poison us do we not die?
And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge?

Merchant of Venice, III:1
William Shakespeare

Waging war is a peculiar American pastime: its appeal does not diminish as corpses multiply. Quite the contrary - each new round of this gruesome spectacle is greeted with the greatest fervor by the elites, the loudest applause from the intellectuals, and the proudest swagger of the patriots. No effort is spared in hammering into the public consciousness two absolute Truths about the contenders in this sordid spectacle: America is absolutely good, and the Enemy absolutely evil. America, preaches an appropriate (and appropriately paid) representative of Capital, is the savior of the world, the benevolent exporter of democracy, the deliverer of freedom; The Enemy, whatever small, poor, far-away and relatively defenseless nation it may be, is savage, senseless, a direct and immediate threat to American interests which must be destroyed.

The rhetoric demanding the need for war--real, manly, action--puffs up the audience with false pride, whetting its appetite for blood, mayhem and destruction. Not against our side, of course: not against Uncle Sam, its thousands of armed, armored, killing machines and the larger machines those thousands will wield to kill and destroy. Seating for those who are (supposedly) cheering on the Enemy is arranged only at torture camps and graveyards elsewhere. The partisan home crowd directs its fury, fear, and hatred at the beaten and broken creature cowering below--today, Iraq. Dragged into the arena from a dungeon decorated with the skeletons of Indians, Filipinos and Vietnamese, our latest hapless victim wondered what stories the soothsayers would narrate to drown out its shrieks and cries.

Today we Americans know who the soothsayers are and what stories were told. We know because many of us were heeding them as thousands of Iraqis were snuffed out of existence by cruise missiles and cluster bombs with less notice than a quick turn of the page.

And what fantastic fairy tales they were. A country bombed and pulverized by our last assault upon it, strangled by our suffocating sanctions, possessing rusting weapons two, three, generations old, holding one-tenth our population and having one-thirty-seventh of our per-capita GDP, was said to represent a serious and imminent danger to our well-being. Is America so weak? Not one intelligence agency in the West found a shred of evidence to prove links to al-Qaeda or September 11th, bin Laden had called for Hussein's head and, finally, the President admitted there was no link between Hussein's regime and September 11th--but nonetheless Iraq was declared to have supported al-Qaeda and played some shadowy role in that attack. UN inspectors under Ritter said Iraq no longer had weapons of mass destruction, more UN inspectors under Blix found none, and US agents under Kay have come up empty-handed--yet Iraq, we are told, still must have possessed dangerous weapons....

By and large the public swallowed these fantastic and unbelievable concoctions. The lies served their purpose, for the deed was done....

...But a problem emerged: Iraq got back on its feet. Granted, the odious regime was overthrown, but the vast numbers of Iraqis, not benefiting from our propaganda apparatus, knew they were neither Hussein clones nor American pawns. Though our free media tried to cuff them in Manichean chains, the Iraqi masses were what our media mouthpieces never allowed them to be: human beings. Stirred into anger and resentment against the American occupation and all the chaos and injustice that marked its presence, they began to fight back.

As Iraqi resistance intensifies, it has become better organized, more deadly, more daring, and more numerous. US troops fall prey more and more to hit-and-run attacks on convoys, coordinated machine-gun and rocket-propelled-grenade fire, improvised roadside explosives, and suicide attacks. Important and prominent symbols of the occupation, including police stations, other foreign troops, hotels catering to occupation authorities, even UN buildings, have quickly become targets. Missiles have brought down a series of helicopters and struck planes, illustrating an advanced development of resistance capabilities. Rockets, wheeled around on donkey carts, now strike at the most 'secure' symbols and residencies of American imperialism in Iraq.

In this qualitatively new situation, a routine exercise of American chauvinism--state terrorism followed by the usual unfulfilled promises about patching up the victim nation - has turned into a total nightmare. The well-orchestrated and planned-out event, replete with 'Shock and Awe' fireworks, pronouncements about freeing Iraqis, and staged destruction of Saddam statues, has fallen apart.

This decisive development demands an understanding of an occupied people's right to resist the occupier of their country, for the insurgency has been the main trigger for a renewed anti-war movement. While the anti-war protests and actions carried out prior to the invasion were inspiring, the movement lacked the political and theoretical coherency to survive the likely possibility that war would be carried out. Once the bombs started falling on Baghdad the movement dissipated. It must also be admitted that prior to the invasion, the majority of Americans supported war. In no other country did a majority of the populace support the war--except Israel....

"The vast majority of people are not motivated by abstractions. They are motivated by what they can feel on their skin. The entry point for this movement into the consciousness of new people is not through morality... The freshest stratum in any movement are those who are there through trauma and fear. Soldiers getting killed is a very serious thing, because these are our families."

It is the emergence of resistance on the ground from Iraqis themselves which lifted the veil of lies from the war for many Americans. Were it not for the daily casualties and attacks inflicted upon U.S. troops in Iraq, it is doubtful that the recent uproar about the falsity of war claims and the merits of the occupation itself would be so loud and widespread at home now...

posted on Jan, 14 2004 @ 11:50 AM
Yes, and I have the right to resist socialism, the UN, politically correct thinking, minority take overs, out of control immigration, the corrupt minority controlled financial system etc.

In time people will see that they are for the most part better off under US guidance than they were with Saddam.

posted on Jan, 14 2004 @ 12:28 PM
"If Russia invaded Canada, and their bombs killed members of my family, I would definitely be lining up to take shots at some of my Russki occupiers. Isn't that patriotism?"

and why the HELL would russia invade canada? dont even use comparisons like that - its utterly stupid.

posted on Jan, 14 2004 @ 01:10 PM
Of course they do. As they are doing now.

Hence the problem of occupation. This is what people do not get.

The tighter we draw the collar, the worse it'll get.

posted on Jan, 14 2004 @ 01:19 PM
They have the 'right' to do it, but logically they shouldnt. Life is getting better and will be better for them. Its mostly the Saddam supporters and Terrorists who are attacking us, the general population supports our effort, according to a gallup pole (+/- 4.5%), about 80% approve, the other was eather undecided or against (about a 50/50 split).

posted on Jan, 14 2004 @ 01:26 PM
GeniusSage: "and why the HELL would russia invade canada? dont even use comparisons like that - its utterly stupid.."

Hey awesome well-thought out response.

And I can use any comparisons I like, thank you very much. What if Morocco invaded England? Pulau invaded Bosnia? What if I unilaterally invaded Uranus?

posted on Jan, 14 2004 @ 01:26 PM
The point has been made that as conditions improve most people's dissatisfaction will disappear.

Most of the attacks are funded by money and hiring of mercenaries as far as I can tell.

How the hell is that really Iraqi' resistance? It isn't it is just Saddam and the UN/France/Germany/Left wing/Russian resistance is what it is.

That is why you have all the left wingers crying about his all day long on this website hoping to convince the uninformed and the afraid that their treachory is really the unhappy Iraqi's and that the US should leave now!

Yeah that is what they want but not what they will get.

posted on Jan, 14 2004 @ 01:29 PM
I'm not sure how much I'd trust any "poll" in that region... However, the other issue here, is that in a closed society, like Iraq was (as far as media), it is highly unlikely that the majority of the population even knew how bad they were being raped by Saddam...

While they languished under sanctions, Saddam continued to build more and more palaces of marble and gold, as well as repair his war machine. The average Iraqi on the street has next to NO knowledge of this, so yes, it's conceivable that they see Saddam not as a monster, but as the legitimate ruler....and it's due to a lack of open press, not stupidity. The best we can do is educate the populace, until they see how bad Saddam was ripping them off. Sure, we'll rip them off too, but not near as completely, hehe....

posted on Jan, 14 2004 @ 01:31 PM
Gallup poles are very trustworthy

posted on Jan, 14 2004 @ 01:39 PM
TheNeo: "Most of the attacks are funded by money and hiring of mercenaries as far as I can tell."

Really, based on what info? Please be precise.

Taxman: Gallup polls might be pretty accurate usually, but once you have an occupying power polling the Occupied, it starts to lose some of its veracity


posted on Jan, 14 2004 @ 01:40 PM

gallup polls are not trustworthy.

pollsters that take money to do a poll, tend to skew results to the liking of the client.

in University I took a number of statistical courses for my business major and the favourite comment of one of my professor's was that statistics is an eloborate system of making numbers say what you want (if you so desire to do this of course).


you forgot the oldest and most powerful method of communications known to mankind, rumour and gossip!

every Iraqi knew what Saddam was up to, I guarantee it.

posted on Jan, 14 2004 @ 01:41 PM
Well, Gallup poles are privatly funded, but I can see your point.

I think this one is funny, thats why I keep hiting it.

Neo's opinion is his and thats what we are here to discuss, our opinions.

posted on Jan, 14 2004 @ 01:43 PM
I think that if another country invaded my country I would resist

posted on Jan, 14 2004 @ 01:44 PM
Sure, the Iraqis that oppose the occupation have a right to resist.

If the US were invaded, my initial thought is to resist - because one thing is for sure - any potential opponent of the US is currently not capable of raising the quality of living for the people of the US. Therefore I would probably resist to the death.
If I were in a situation where there was low quality of life and a rich nation invaded with the whole world watching - I may actually be tempted to sit back and see if they could actually raise the standard of living.

If they didn't and began raping the land's resources, I would probably be sniping at them and such...

The US certainly does have the ability to raise the quality of living for the Iraqis (whether they actually do or not - who knows, it takes a while to rebuild a nation..

The problem arises is that the longer and harder they resist the tighter the grasp of the occupying force... and the less the resistance the looser the grasp.
(After all the tighter the security the more money is spent from the US taxpayers)

I can also understand the wisdom of gritting your teeth and bearing with the occupation until a puppet goverment is set up and then once the occupiers are satisfied with the results of that puppet gov't it could be easier to move towards a more self-determined domestic government.

In the meantime, the US is under great pressure to rebuild the infrastructure, provide jobs, security, etc. There could actually be progress seen in that country in the process of occupation and forthcoming puppet gov't.
After all, the world IS watching....

posted on Jan, 14 2004 @ 01:58 PM

This was sent to me through a group I am a member of. As I read I began to think, "Could all this be true?" And of course it is. It came from an officer in the US Military and is something worth reading if not passing on.. Also it was given and e-mailed from one of the fronts and the officers name and perticulars have been deleted. As you all know I am not a "war monger" "kill em all and let God sort them out" kind of person. I would much rather there never be a need for war and death that accompanies it. But I will support my (yes every one of the troops are mine and yours) military unconditionally. By sending this to you I hope you are moved to do the same. Marines and Sailors, As we approach the end of the year I think it is important to share a few thoughts about what you've accomplished directly, in some cases, and indirectly in many others. I am speaking about what the Bush Administration and each of you has contributed by wearing the uniform, because the fact that you wear the uniform contributes 100% to the capability of the nation to send a few onto the field to execute national policy. As you read about these achievements you are a part of I would call your attention to two things: 1. This is good news that hasn't been fit to print or report on TV. 2. It is much easier to point out the errors a man makes when he makes the tough decisions, rarely is the positive as aggressively pursued. Since President Bush declared an end to major combat on May 1... .... the first battalion of the new Iraqi Army has graduated and is on active duty. .... over 60,000 Iraqis now provide security to their fellow citizens. .... nearly all of Iraq's 400 courts are functioning. .... the Iraqi judiciary is fully independent. .... on Monday, October 6 power generation hit 4,518 megawatts-exceeding the prewar average. .... all 22 universities and 43 technical institutes and colleges are open, as are nearly all primary and secondary schools. .... by October 1, Coalition forces had rehab-ed over 1,500 schools - 500 more than scheduled. .... teachers earn from 12 to 25 times their former salaries. .... all 240 hospitals and more than 1200 clinics are open. .... doctors salaries are at least eight times what they were under Saddam. .... pharmaceutical distribution has gone from essentially nothing to 700 tons in May to a current total of 12,000 tons. .... the Coalition has helped administer over 22 million vaccinations to Iraq's children. .... a Coalition program has cleared over 14,000 kilometers of Iraq's 27,000 kilometers of weed-choked canals which now irrigate tens of thousands of farms. This project has created jobs for more than 100,000 Iraqi men and women. .... we have restored over three-quarters of prewar telephone services and over two-thirds of the potable water production. .... there are 4,900 full-service telephone connections. We expect 50,000 by year-end. .... the wheels of commerce are turning. From bicycles to satellite dishes to cars and trucks, businesses are coming to life in all major cities and towns. .... 95 percent of all prewar bank customers have service and first-time customers are opening accounts daily. .... Iraqi banks are making loans to finance businesses. .... the central bank is fully independent. .... Iraq has one of the worlds most growth-oriented investment and banking laws. .... Iraq has a single, unified currency for the first time in 15 years. .... satellite TV dishes are legal. .... foreign journalists aren't on 10-day visas paying mandatory and extortionate fees to the Ministry of Information for "minders" and other government spies. .... there is no Ministry of Information. .... there are more than 170 newspapers. .... you can buy satellite dishes on what seems like every street corner. .... foreign journalists (and everyone else) are free to come and go. .... a nation that had not one single element - legislative, judicial or executive - of a representative government, now does. .... in Baghdad alone residents have selected 88 advisory councils. Baghdad's first democratic transfer of power in 35 years happened when the city council elected its new chairman. .... today in Iraq chambers of commerce, business, school and professional organizations are electing their leaders all over the country. .... 25 ministers, selected by the most representative governing body in Iraq's history, run the day-to-day business of government. .... the Iraqi government regularly participates in international events. Since July the Iraqi government has been represented in over two dozen international meetings, including those of the UN General Assembly, the Arab League, the World Bank and IMF and, today, the Islamic Conference Summit. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs today announced that it is reopening over 30 Iraqi embassies around the world. .... Shia religious festivals that were all but banned, aren't. .... for the first time in 35 years, in Karbala thousands of Shiites celebrate the pilgrimage of the 12th Imam. .... the Coalition has completed over 13,000 reconstruction projects, large and small, as part of a strategic plan for the reconstruction of Iraq. .... Uday and Queasy are dead - and no longer feeding innocent Iraqis to the zoo lions, raping the young daughters of local leaders to force cooperation, torturing Iraq's soccer players for losing games, or murdering critics. .... children aren't imprisoned or murdered when their parents disagree with the government. .... political opponents aren't imprisoned, tortured, executed, maimed, or are forced to watch their families die for disagreeing with Saddam. .... millions of longsuffering Iraqis no longer live in perpetual terror. .... Saudis will hold municipal elections. .... Qatar is reforming education to give more choices to parents. .... Jordan is accelerating market economic reforms. .... the Nobel Peace Prize was awarded for the first time to an Iranian -- a Muslim woman who speaks out with courage for human rights, for democracy and for peace. .... Saddam is gone. .... Iraq is free. .... President Bush has not faltered or failed. .... Yet, little or none of this information has been published by the Press corps that prides itself on bringing you all the news that's important. Iraq under US lead control has come further in six months than Germany did in seven years or Japan did in nine years following WWII. Military deaths from fanatic Nazi's, and Japanese numbered in the thousands and continued for over three years after WWII victory was declared. It took the US over four months to clear away the twin tower debris, let alone attempt to build something else in its place. Now, take into account that Congress fought President Bush on every aspect of his handling of this country's war and the post-war reconstruction; and that they continue to claim on a daily basis on national TV that this conflict has been a failure. Taking everything into consideration, even the unfortunate loss of our brothers and sisters in this conflict, do you think anyone else in the world could have accomplished as much as the United States and the Bush administration in so short a period of time? These are things worth writing about. Get the word out. Write to someone you think may be able to influence our Congress or the press to tell the story. Above all, be proud that you are a part of this historical precedent. God Bless you all. Have a great Holiday. Semper Fidelis, CO Kale Danberg Always Faithful

[Edited on 14-1-2004 by cyberpilot]

posted on Jan, 14 2004 @ 02:01 PM
Wow, and I thought I talked alot

Hell ya cyberpilot, dispite I didnt read it all, it was very good.

posted on Jan, 14 2004 @ 02:02 PM
Every war that has ever occurred has been about money when it comes down to it.

The Iraqi war is no exception.

In this case the US has won as the war will be seen as a good investment for the US.

That is all in addition to the other benefits etc.

posted on Jan, 14 2004 @ 02:05 PM
Indeed, I agree, or something that relates to money or ideals. The US Revolution wasnt for money, but you could make a point for it. Veitnam wasnt for money eather.

posted on Jan, 14 2004 @ 02:05 PM
TY taxman, but back to the original topic;

SURE they have the right to resist, just as I have the right to take a axe and amputate my hand...but does that mean it would be the wise choice?.....

posted on Jan, 14 2004 @ 02:07 PM
Americans in general (well, may be not in general, but a great number of them) have a tendency to monopolize the definitions of freedom and welfare. This leads to their current inability to comprehend why there are people that hate them in the first place.

Now, freedom is an abstract concept which allows for more than one definition. Many of them are mutually exclusive, but who's to say which one is correct?

Therefore, it is easy to understand the resistance in any occupied area, because nobody wants to have someone else's values forced upon himself.

Although I'm not in favor of violence I believe the Iraqis can do whatever they want. It's their country.

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