and these are good questions really, but the flip side is they are questions ill not try to claim are within my area of expertise.
remember what ive stated my training is in. military demo ops. i COULD plan a building demo right now, but it would be a pretty brutish demo job.
ive always tried to be pretty clear that my training was as a combat engineer and the curriculum doenst cover really pretty CD's. what it DOES cover
is explosives, charectaristics, employment, and use on various materials. so when ive done my calculations ive always done them from the standpoint
of "ok, i need to cut 2" thick steel column of this dimension" and then multiplied that by the number of columns. i calculated for TnT and then
applied a formula to refigure that yeild number using an RDX based explosive. i then further simplified it (believe it or not in an attempt to try to
make a cd theory work with the evidence we have) and used linear shape charges which is pretty straight forward.
not being a structural engineer and not knowing exactly how many columns would need to fail to drop the building in the fashion we witnessed, i simply
figured that for the sake of my arguments id cut them all (just the core none of the floor trusses or the perimeter columns)
any wiring schemes or ring main layouts would be pretty straight forward demo 101 type stuff. always keep it simple...ALWAYS becuase you want to make
sure your stuff is ALL going to go off so that there is minimal physical evidence left behind.
now, for my calcs based on all of the columns i got 172lbs of HE per floor. so thats just under 4lbs per column (based on the dimensions given in the
leaked schemos for the buildign at the 66th floor and assuming they stayed that size from 66 down, which they didnt but it makes the math simpler for
the sake of argument. we'd guess they likely got bigger as you went closer to the ground which of course means more HE to cut them but keeping them
uniform makes easier discussion points)
so, if you could get the building to fall with 15 severed columns, i MAY be willing to consider the plausibility of setting off the required HE and
staying covert (read quiet) enough to fit within what we as outsiders can glean from videos we have access to.
now, as to precutting, they do that to minimize the neccessary amount of HE for the job for 2 reasons. keeps the risk of blowing out the neighbors
windows down and reduces the amount of HE you need and thereby keeps costs down.
so honestly it would take someone with more structural knowledge than i possess to calculate the curve between how much you can cut and not risk the
building falling down a week early in a wind gust and how much any cutting is going to reduce the amount of HE needed to keep it more covert. (did
that make sense to anyone but me?) i guess i mean you have to cut enough to make it worth the time but not so much as to comprimise the building and
have a team of inspectors in there going "hey bubba, wtf is this doing here?"
but i have to ask what you would consider "minimal charges"? cuz even if you cut each core column 50% with a torch and reduced your need to
85lbs/floor, that is STILL 85lbs/floor. the problem is, unless youve heard anywhere near that size explosive go off, you simply dont realize how
amazingly unbelievably loud that is. in my debate thread i linked a video of a CD that had charges going off after the start of the fall and you
could still hear the charges very distinctly. i have no idea the yeild of each charge going off but i think it does make a point. beyond that ive
conseded that maybe the sound of the collapse could mask the charges, but you WOULD hear the first one (this is of course where thermate/mite comes
into play and i start looking for things to gouge out my eyes but thats another topic) but i mean, everyones seen a fireworks display. we're
talking relativly small amounts of things like black powder. or if anyones ever heard a gunshot from several blocks away in a city. the sound of
that gunshot carried around buildings and down streets and thats only a few grams of cordite going off...yet 50+lbs of HE going off and theres only a
few people reporting this? (few being relative, if there are even 1000 published reports of people hearing bombs going off and yet there were how
many 1000's of people running every which way on 911 just before the collapse? my opinion is still that if enough HE went off to damage the
buildings we wouldnt be having these discussions, just my opinion on this point, not claiming it as fact)
ive seen the video thich posted dozens of times in dozens of threads and it is the ONLY one that even gets my attention.
im going to go out on a limb and make one statement that i stand by but cannot back up in any way. IF high explosives had initiated the collapse of
the WTC towers, every live feed that had audio in NY would have picked it up. every one (and wouldnt need a 9 second time/audio adjustment. 9
seconds? does this guy even KNOW the speed of sound much less the det speed of most HE materials? sorry that one irked me for some reason months ago
and i havnt gotten over it. yes i have no life, carry on )
as far as fall times, eh all i have is my own laymans opinions on that one. but what gets me is that there isnt a real hard concensus on the actual
fall time which ive seen range from 9 seconds up to 18 seconds. (NO im not going to comb the internet to find links to those cuz im lazy and they were
nothing more than someone elses opinion so they dont really matter but the point is that it IS disagreement) but i am interested where the 96 second
figure comes from as its the first ive heard of it. and i do like to try to read things that have real factual and educational value to them.
as to other contributing factors i have a list of questions a few pages long. granted ill admit that bsb has pointed out that most of them are silly
and uneducated questions but as i feel i am a good representation of the lay community out there when it comes to the engineering side of it im not
asking anything others may be thinking lol.
so yeah, i again took 4000 characters to say what i could have done in a couple hundred lol. but im not going to try to intelligently answer
questions that ive admitted were outside my area of expertise or experience and figured id throw out my disclaimers again on my explosives knowledge.
but once you have the knowledge and experience with explosives its not too hard to translate one area into another. CDI has spent their long history
and careers learning the art of bringing down structures inside urban environments to minimize damage to surrounding structures and my area of
expertise was dropping a bridge or putting holes in the road while someone is shooting at me. but once you know how to cut steel with explosives, the
rest is just in wehre the steel is located and whats the best way to rig it for that particular situation.
and of course if anyone is shooting at you while yer doing it lol (lame attempt at humor, i know 911 is a serious topic but if we take ourselves too
seriously in the discussion of it, tempers flare and people who may have a lot to contribute end up banned for getting hot under the collar)
hope at least SOME part of this post made sense.
EDIT TO ADD: on a side note i just wanted to take a moment to thank everyone participating in this thread for managing a level of decorum that seems
to go above simply following the tac's. its rare i partake in these discussions much anymore so when i do im glad its with a group of adults who are
acting as such. thank you all. i took a few mins and starred every single post in this thread to this point. even the ones i disagreed with. lol
yes wizard even yours
(just a joke, i mean i did but i didnt want you to think that i seriously didnt like you personally, i just find i disagree
with you...pretty much in general, but your posts in this thread were star worthy to me
[edit on 19-8-2007 by Damocles]