Contact and Major Change?

Badge, your response to my last post was excellently written, and I certainly agree with what you have said.
Also, I understand the metaphor -- but I wonder if the only problem that manifests on wall street is that people forget to trade. Doubtful, I'd say.

Actually, this is not a thread about "IF" or "How Many", but rather only the human reaction to such an event would it occur:

by NGC
Let us suppose that contact is made. Something reasonably undeniable... An event, or events, that would be widely reported and verified beyond any cover up.

How much difference would that make in the real lives of real people? And if it made much change at all, how fast would that happen?

Arguments of if and how many aside, I would answer that the changes would be immediate, they would escalate, and they would be profound.

The 911 analogy and the nuclear winter scenario don't really fit as models because both involved fear and reaction upon a known quantity. We know there are religious fanatical terrorists bent on wreaking havoc and we've known for some time that nuclear Armageddon has been with us since the '40s and hasn't left.

No, this would be much, much different. For one thing, I think that most of humanity would undergo an immediate and formidable soul-searching on a very personal level. The majority on the planet subscribe, at hugely varying degrees of involvement, with one religion or another. There are very few true agnostics in the world, and none of the theological 'designs' have included a superior race of alien beings anywhere in their 'script'. Oops.

Another issue, and please don't slam me for taking a political position here because I'm not, would be reflected in Ron Reagan's comment to the U.N in 1988 about how many of the differences among humans would evaporate if we were faced by an alien threat. Now - I am not saying an alien visit on the WHL would constitute a threat - but I AM suggesting that there is some truth to those words: Humans are rather selfish, boorish, belligerent beings as a lot, and I believe we would decrease our high-&-mighty outlook of ourselves by a few notches if we are confronted by aliens of, at least initially, unknown intent. We may even decide we can all play with each other in our little sandbox of Earth a little nicer from now on.

OK, so religious and political issues aside, what other changes might we expect? Well, I believe that such an alien visit, again regardless of declared intent, would forever alter academia. All those stuffy "scientists" that have refused to consider, much less fund, any research into the UFO/alien question for decades would be eating crow. Man, I would love to watch the egg dripping off some of those faces. Anyway - research and development in so many fields would experience exponential changes: Astronomy (astrobiology, planetary geology, cosmology, etc.), Engineering (aeronautics, propulsion, materials, etc.), Philosophy, Chemistry, Sociology, Biology - the list goes on and on. Frankly, I can't wait for this part.

There's much more of course, but I can tell you that there would be a one huge change in the mind of everyone: The answer to the question, Are We Alone? To me, the single most important quagmire in the UFO/Alien debate is this:

There can only be ONE CHOICE among these two scenarios: Earthlings ARE either entirely alone in the universe - or - we ARE NOT alone. It can't be both! Yet humanity has vehemently argued both 'truths' for several millennia – often to the death (how reassuring).

Thus, for me, the biggest change would be immediate, profound, and magnificent: We finally have The Answer.

What happens after that, of course, is that questions of a much different kind will emerge. And those questions would depend entirely on what it was that brought the aliens here in the first place…

Thanks for the thought experiment! These are the best…

ive got a feeling if the "aliens" decide to land in the white house lawn... it would get shot at...

why would they choose the white house lawn? its not very impressive and you cant expect somone from another planet to know that its the US Capitol... alot of buildeing are more impressive than the white house...

and who knows what language they speak?... in all probability they will just land somewhere... get out and go have a vacation... u know what i mean?

It wouldn't be quite as simple as a quick hi-de-ho then back to normality / Lindsay Lohan snorting up her next line / Paris and Britney on suicide watch / Iraq carnage continues on the evening news.

Somewhere along the line, the FREE ENERGY DECEPTION WILL HAVE TO BE ADDRESSED. I think we all know about that. If you don't, the Disclosure Project website would be a good place to begin. That is, if the govt / PTB acknowledge previous contact. Otherwise, if there's no real point to the landing other than "hello everybody, here's your front page news until Posh Spice and Becks have another baby", well it will be just a case of "oh that's nice, we knew you existed all along but thanks for popping in anyway". I think it would take a point of human calamity for first contact to happen.

Originally posted by Badge01
Just remember that if "aliens" land on the White House lawn, the chances are 99.999999999% it's an Earth-based disinfo ploy.

The point of the thread was not if we had to deal with a disinfo ploy, it was if the aliens were real and proven to be real. Speculating the odds of a disinfo ploy in this thread is pointless.

Originally posted by Badge01
That we don't see them here, tells me they're unlikely to be anywhere, given the time that has passed.

Perhaps you should rephrase that sentence to read "That I don't see them here, tells me they're unlikely to be anywhere, given the time that has passed."

There are people on Earth who have seen aliens, according to them. So, you can't speak for everyone under the general 'we' umbrella of human experience, unless you can categorically dismiss every single one of those people as being frauds and proving that their experiences were not true.

I have trouble reading generalisations, as they tend to be dismissive of the exceptional and they are usually prone to logical flaws.

I have so enjoyed all the comments from everyone. It is nice to hear the different takes on the issue. I hope that there are as many views as there are people who read this thread, for in the long run, the ideas here to some degree may map the future.

As expected, there are those with both positive and negative views on such a thing. It's good to hear both sides of this without trying to prove or disprove the "reality" of it all, because this allows us to focus on the human side of it. And the truth is, contact would be as much about how we react, as how the hypothetical aliens react.

How would the major religions handle such a shift? Would they call for their followers to treat these aliens as brothers, or demons, or angels? How would the fields of science be impacted? Hell, how would capitalism verses communism verses monarchies and theocracies fit into a system where one of these might be validated by an outside source?

And SS was right in the fact that I used the WHL as a metaphor for an open and public contact. I no more expect such a place would be preferable than a cow pasture in outer Mongolia. Because the idea that alien minds would have other priorities than humans, their choice of contact locations would most likely be just as alien.

I started this thread wondering if contact, if or when it happens, would unite or splinter mankind. And while the answer depends in large part on the actions of the aliens themselves, much of the answer will be our own.

My old mother used a saying, "familiarity breeds contempt". As long as we think of aliens as non-existent or "out there somewhere" or even as being here but with unknown and shadowy purposes, then they are exotic. They are the saviors of man from his folly, or the vehicle of his destruction, or only the shadow of his dreams. But if they become a reality, how long will it be, if ever, before we view them as a resource to exploit, just as we have every creature we've ever known?

And while some of us may be moved by the new vistas that contact would lay on man's table, how many of us would use that to better humanity, and how many would use it as a reason to broaden our grasp of profit? (Bearing in mind that I use the word "profit" in the broader sense of gaining in power and position.)

And again, thanks for all the responses, for all the brain cells used to ponder these reactions of humanity. I think ATSers are some of the brightest people on the planet, and it is a pleasure to hear your thoughts on what I consider one of the overlooked areas of the whole UFO/contact concept.

What COULD the future hold? I have no idea. But it is wise to consider ourselves in light of what we may become. It is even wiser to answer these questions because of the fact that we ourselves might one day be the "aliens".

Thank you for posting this thread NGC. I personally think that people who are believers in UFOs and are righteous individuals, in other words, not out to harm anyone will be treated to contacts of their own. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if a ship landed in by back acre and they took me for a ride around the Solar System. Why does it always have to be the Big Boys, the governments who get privy treatment? I already was amazed and stood in awe when they flew over my house. I felt no fear, just special. I wonder if it will be like Close Encounters of the Third Kind? I like the picture of your Veil Nebulae. Its pretty. Outrageos coordinates are funny to say the least.

Ah, there is another question in the offing. Will a visit to our little ball of mud in the sky be a special event for them, or will they turn out to be accidental tourists?

It would be funny, in a sad sort of way, if after all our high hopes and dreams, ET just took a wrong turn at the Crab Nebula and got lost in the boonies, stopping here to ask directions of the locals.

And why should a visit be purposeful? Lewis and Clark never really expected to travel through the lands of so many tribes on their trip to the Pacific. Columbus was a whole continent and an ocean off on his expectations, thinking he had circled the globe, when he wasn't even halfway yet.

And even if, for some reason, we have been under observation for a long time by one or more groups of aliens, as so many believe, there's still no reason why some other passerby shouldn't stumble onto the party.

While there's reason to think that the universe is empty, it's not like we know. So how would we deal with the alien that shows up with the galactic equivalent of a Nikon and wearing Bermuda shorts and suntan lotion.

How would that effect us, if the first ET turns out to be a dumb yokel that can't tell science from mud pies? Will we get a case of the "big head"when he doesn't know just how his Galactic Oldsmobile actually works? After all, Native People thought that the Pilgrims were pretty dumb to be starving in a land of plenty.

There's a lot of ways this could play out, if it ever happens at all. But how we react as a species will set the tone for everything that follows for a very long time. How will we keep our sense of selfworth without becoming a victim of our natural tendency to feel superior, because either road could lead to something bad.

Edit by NGC2736 for spelling and punctuation.

[edit on 11-8-2007 by NGC2736]

If it changes anything it will change the idea that something other than what people find their comfort zones shattered.

It will depend on the spin that the media puts on the situation.

But I think that because we are considered the consumers not much will change.
After the initial discussions people will be happy to leave it in the hands of our world leaders.

That is if it were to be a peaceful disclosure.

In the event that it is not a peaceful disclose then quite frankly I have to say I urge people to think about their actions, especially people that base their reactions in fear rather than logic.

Everyone should have a plan. Plan's A-Z

Any change that is made will be based on ET's intentions.

If they are nice with tons of new ideas to better us then it will be a good change but if they are out to rape our earth or abduct us for experiments then well...

Regardless it will be a major change just depends on ET if its good or bad.

Well, I hardly think that our planet would be worth much of a fight by ET, when FTL or Dimensional or some other travel would likely be an option. There must be many empty planets to rape, and not take any chance of something going wrong with a conquest.

And even as young as our species is, we've figures out that slavery is not worth the trouble, so I discount that as much of a factor. Besides, machines are so much easier to maintain and control.

But earth2, the real question is how the change of perspective on life will effect man, or if it will at all.

I feel the first thing to effect the average person's thinking, the first decision point, is what is the appearance or physical structure of the ETs. If a flow of goo oozes out, but is indeed intelligent, the reaction may well be different than seeing a human type being.

nefilim have walked among us forever... nothing new here... look away

Originally posted by roadgravel
I feel the first thing to effect the average person's thinking, the first decision point, is what is the appearance or physical structure of the ETs. If a flow of goo oozes out, but is indeed intelligent, the reaction may well be different than seeing a human type being.

Yes,we are very "beauty" oriented. Appearance will certainly play a major roll, IMO, on how we as a species react.

There is no reason to think that ET might not have cloven feet, or a visible aura/halo. Either of which, while no indication of anything more than genetics, would none-the-less cause some perceptual problems for us to overcome.

Maybe even worse, if ET resembled something in our animal kingdom that we considered of lesser intelligence, we might be tempted to greatly underestimate these beings. Something that looked like a sad eyed beagle would not seem very threatening, yet the mind could be closer to polar bear in many respects.

Originally posted by tezzajw
Perhaps you should rephrase that sentence to read "That I don't see them here, tells me they're unlikely to be anywhere, given the time that has passed."

By 'we don't see them', I'm talking astronomically, such as the appearance of Dyson Spheres, or evidence of a Type II or Type III civilization.

There are people on Earth who have seen aliens, according to them. So, you can't speak for everyone under the general 'we' umbrella of human experience, unless you can categorically dismiss every single one of those people as being frauds and proving that their experiences were not true.

These phenomenon are likely to be internal, subjective and thus non-verifiable. Doesn't make them less 'real' to the experiencer, but unlikely to impact others directly, such as a physical landing

I have trouble reading generalisations, as they tend to be dismissive of the exceptional and they are usually prone to logical flaws.

That's true, there are logical flaws in the argument, and I realize that it uses a highly anthropomorphic model for sentient beings. However, you have to start somewhere.

Why do people think that aliens will give us all the answers just because they may be more advanced than us? Who says they've worked out the secrets of the cosmos?

If we could go back in time to the caveman era, besides showing them some new gadgets, what could we tell them about the cosmos, spirituality, or even religion? Absolutely squat. Because we know nothing about them. So why would aliens?

What if they (aliens) just happened to stumble upon the technology for interstellar travel? What if they aren't that advanced than us?

I would laugh my ass off if they came down and just shrugged their shoulders and said "we're here but that's all we've got to give"

Originally posted by thesneakiod
What if they (aliens) just happened to stumble upon the technology for interstellar travel? What if they aren't that advanced than us?

That is pretty close to the theme in Sagan's Contact where the 'very advanced beings' actually found the stargates used to traverse the Galaxy. They didn't build them themselves and had no idea who did. They just jumped on the highway like the invaders of Rome used their roads against them.

The ETs are never going to land on the lawn of the white house then have a meeting with the government. If that ever happens, it will be staged and part of a devious plan to make believe something to the population. As it has always been with such important matters, the truth and the real events happen behind the scenes, the government only tell us what they want us to know.

I think one month after disclosure we would see sponsored UFO'S flying around the football stadia, Antigravity nike sneakers, virtual reality erotica, and package holidays to venus val thors birthplace.

Originally posted by thesneakiod

I would laugh my ass off if they came down and just shrugged their shoulders and said "we're here but that's all we've got to give"

And even "give" is a stretch. I doubt that we will be given anything more than a few trinkets and beads. If we want the steel knives and the blunderbusses, we'll have to have something that they want in trade.

It might be art or music, it might be access to our solar system, it might be our first born children for DNA and zoos; there's no way to know or guess.