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Contact and Major Change?

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posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 12:51 PM
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Let us suppose that contact is made. Something reasonably undeniable, such as the proverbial "White House Lawn" theme that skeptics have said would be required as real proof. An event, or events, that would be widely reported and verified beyond any cover up.

How much difference would that make in the real lives of real people? And if it made much change at all, how fast would that happen?

I ask these things because I so often hear that it would be "Earth shattering", or that it would "change everything". While it would be a unique event, to say the least, how much would it really impact everyones lives?

I personally see it as forming a shift in how we perceive the cosmos, but since only a limited number of people really think about such things, I doubt it would be more than another month before we were back to Paris Hilton and two headed snake stories on the front page, along with the usual litany of murder and mayhem.

Just contact, and not some planetary invasion, would pass most people living in the everyday rut just as much as the "bomb", for all it's horror, really wasn't as defining as history wants to admit. I remember well the school drills-"duck and cover"- and the stockpiling. I remember the Civil Defense pamphlets on how to make your own shelter. But everyday life life went on very much as it always had for most folks.

During the Cuban Missal Crisis, which everyone really knew had a good chance of going nuclear, life went on. Jobs were worked, schools had homework, banks were robbed, and the politicians and the preachers and the used car salesmen tried to turn their wares and show a profit. Will it not be the same with "Contact"?

Now before some nit picker says this is in the wrong forum, I contend that it is not. Here is where the hysteria and the hyperbole about E T and UFOs sometimes rages like a wildfire. There is no better place to examine logically just what we may really be in for if that day of contact shows up in our lifetime. If/when the "real deal" comes along, here is where we will discuss it, and here is where we'll try to sort out just what it means to us.

So give me your thoughts, your expectations, your theories. One day we may need them.




posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by NGC2736
How much difference would that make in the real lives of real people? And if it made much change at all, how fast would that happen?


It would work like this:

1) Initial shock and amazement. Sort of like what happened with the WTC attack. People sitting by their TVs to get as much information as possible. Don't go to work. Some services grind to a halt.

2) People slowly try to get back to normal, because we all still have to buy food, work, etc. We try to still get as much info as possible, but the information quickly becomes more specialized, with a much smaller group involved in the study.

3) Slowly, over the course of a few years, the information nags at people, and they begin to question their governments and churches. Some people are able to benefit from the new technology, others remain in squalor. Many people want to turn control over to the aliens. Others hate and fear them.

4) Conflict arises between those who want alien control and those who hate the aliens. Full-scale war breaks out in some places, as the fundamental values disintegrate and the unstated promise of unlimited peace and prosperity on Earth vanishes.

5) Widespread bloodshed, large scale violence, warfare and starvation, social and economic upheaval. End of the world as we know it, with no way of going back.

Of course, with a few changes, this might be the same story of the European invasion of North America. I've tried to imagine alternate scenarios, but this one, I think, accurately incorporates the way people will react to it. Maybe the aliens will be able to hit us with a beam that makes us all think happy thoughts, but other than that, I can't imagine contact (active or passive) doing anything besides tearing the Earth apart.




posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by NGC2736

How much difference would that make in the real lives of real people?


In your scenario of something like just a quick howdy-do from ET..If people didn't demand we spend more on space exploration and less on high explosives I'd be fairly surprised.

That should ensure we at least make it off the planet to establish near Earth colonies much faster than would otherwise be expected,which would make a difference maybe not to us but to our grandchildren.

Fascination with the unknown drives us.



posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 01:22 PM
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I am inclined to believe that a Mass Contact could be of "Earth nudging" proportions - depending on how the media broadcasts it.

In the event of a White House Lawn landing, those who don't think of extraterrestrial life would be forced to fit it into their perception of the world. Most religions accept that Earth and its life is unique to its "Creator", who is also responsible for the rest of the (empty) Universe. Suddenly finding there is ET life, the Catholic church (for instance) might immediately decide on whether to "evangelize" them (this has actually been brought up in the past). This could easily escalate into a heated debate between religious factions who either feel the need to evangelize the aliens or leave them alone.

Technology exchange would also be a priority. Since they landed on our planet, they would have to be more "advanced". We would soon find a way to trade with them. Of course, interplanetary trade would be an exciting new thing for the world's financial players, who would immediately seek ways to exploit it.

Coming down to real people -- I agree to that the change may not be so drastic: however, with the wealth of UFO information currently on the web, the Media might decide to perform a "replay" of the last 60 years, and perhaps even bring up the Ancient Astronaut theory. Also, vaguely linked to the new "technology", new fields of science may open up, creating new attainable College degrees. This is something the "common person" might want to aspire to as they approach their Higher Education years. And... that might just be it, really. I mean, everyone isn't going to suddenly find themselves talking to an alien... contact is going to be of planetary implications. The "personal" effects will only come from individual perceptions and interpretations of the event.



posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 01:37 PM
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Other than a week or so of wall to wall news coverage, followed by wall to wall news shows filled with talking heads debating the politics of it all, nothing would change. Unless they came here to share a specific set of technologies that would fundamentally alter our lives and social system.

But what if they stopped by and acknowledged that Earth has never once been visited by any ufos or any civilization they know of (which could be billions) would all the woo woos have to settle down and realize they were wrong, or would they think the Aliens were lying to cover up past visitations, lol.



posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 01:39 PM
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Thanks guys. I imagine that even if there were some technical information "given" to us, it would be very slow in reaching the masses.

After all, The military would want to see how it could be exploited first, and that could mean years before most of us saw the first alien form of Velcro.

Though there is the idea that the aliens might negotiate trading rights. They could put Wal-Mart in a bind.


[edit on 10-8-2007 by NGC2736]



posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 01:47 PM
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Just remember that if "aliens" land on the White House lawn, the chances are 99.999999999% it's an Earth-based disinfo ploy.

IOW, the chances that there are even any communicating civilizations in our galaxy (able to actively send out a signal) is about 1 civilization/galaxy or less, let alone any chance that they'd have the technology, finances and stable culture needed be able to come here 'in person'. (We are only able, via SETI, to passively listen. We don't have the resources to send a gigawatt signal into space)

As far as any effect of any 'hypothetical' peaceful landing, I'd say as long as it doesn't cause any destabilization to financial markets, the result should be negligible.

At this point, our own civilization has a fairly good ability to hoax something like this.

[edit on 10-8-2007 by Badge01]



posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 01:56 PM
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The problem with that analysis, Badge01, is that it assumes that other civilizations would have developed along the same lines we have. Admittedly there is a slim chance that a civilization would follow the same technological progress as we: they would have to have evolved and developed on a planet very similar to Earth. Perhaps the reason we haven't "heard" anything is because we're the only ones broadcasting; it is not unlikely that another civilization would have developed an advanced or completely unique form of communication that would be inaccessible by our instruments.

Still, I agree; a landing on the White House Lawn would be immediately suspect. The White House is only significant to the United States, and not to the entire planet. If another civilization chose there to land, it would be a bizarre and uncanny act of chance - or very likely staged.



posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts

But what if they stopped by and acknowledged that Earth has never once been visited by any UFOs or any civilization they know of (which could be billions) would all the woo woos have to settle down and realize they were wrong, or would they think the Aliens were lying to cover up past visitations, lol.


While I am neither a woo woo or a cement head on this matter, I can only say that I feel sure that both will be with us long after any visit should happen.

And Badge01, I rest my case with your post that already has a theory even before any contact. I love people that are prepared ahead of time.



posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by Badge01
IOW, the chances that there are even any communicating civilizations in our galaxy (able to actively send out a signal) is about 1 civilization/galaxy or less, let alone any chance that they'd have the technology,


That assumes a nuts & bolts, EBE scenario limited by the Einsteinian view of the structure of the Universe. It may be that Einstein is like Newton. Newton's laws work just fine within Relativity, but they are a sub-set. If Einstein is also a sub-set of some more all-encompassing theory, then it may be possible that there are 'other ways to get around,' so to speak. I think it is a mistake to use Einsteinian logic to suggest that something cannot happen. Even beyond the physical universe as we know it, there could be other explanations.

If the White House Lawn Scenario unfolded, I would think a lot would depend on what ET had to say. There's a world of difference between, "Stick em up!" and "Help us; we're lost."



posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by schuyler
If the White House Lawn Scenario unfolded, I would think a lot would depend on what ET had to say. There's a world of difference between, "Stick em up!" and "Help us; we're lost."




Two thumbs up, and my own personal "hooray".


Edit: Forgot to put in the thumbs.

[edit on 8/10/2007 by Mr Jackdaw]



posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 03:01 PM
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i think that it would also depend on the amount of time spent 'stationed' on the lawn. also it would depend on whether or not actual alien beings get out of the craft, not to mention depending on what the aliens actually do once their out of the craft. it would also depend on the size of the ship,imo.
another thing that would need to be taken into consideration is the exact way in which they go about with the whole landing/revealing themselves.

and depending on what the military do i think would be an influence on how the world takes the news.



posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 03:45 PM
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I agree for the most part that changes would be inevitable concerning acceptance by religion and the eventual return of the common persons return to the daily drudgery needed to put food on the table and maintain normal lifes if there is such a thing. I too remember the fallout drills in school and the "scary outer space" movies back in the 50's. The Alien contact doesn't have to take place just in our country. A simultaneous appearance at all the free countries around the world would be more appropriate. Why would we be so special? It's a world thing because the world is in trouble. Of course the more I think about contact in the future who knows if I haven't already met an Alien in disguise or talked to more than one on this web or any other web. Ya never know.



posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by spacecase
A simultaneous appearance at all the free countries around the world would be more appropriate. Why would we be so special?


Oh, I agree. Nothing at all. It's just that the White House Lawn Scenario (WHLS) has become a sort of metaphor for the ultimate contact. The Taj Mahal would be just as valid, though I might vote for the new Library at Alexandria myself.



posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 05:20 PM
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Originally posted by Mr Jackdaw
The problem with that analysis, Badge01, is that it assumes that other civilizations would have developed along the same lines we have.


Actually, I'm saying that regardless of the methodology of development, I think it would be pretty apparent if advanced civilizations had multiplied at the Galactic core, or not.

This isn't hard to understand. After all radiation, cold, hard vacuum, and vast distances all conspire to make for near perfect isolation. Though it may be true that bacteria can survive deep inside meteors, purposeful space travel by sentient beings appears not to be prevalent.

Regarding proliferation, as you know in biological systems, once things start to happen, using, if you will, 'bacterial colonization, after a discrete 'incubation time', population doubling soon results in the system being filled with organisms.

The galaxy has been around for a long time, certainly long enough for it to be completely colonized already if such a thing was possible.

(Even at great distances I think there would or could be a number of indicators if the galactic core was densely colonized.)

Note in other followups to my post, the only way to get around this basic scenario is if you first postulate changing the laws of physics (or our understanding of them).

There's no easy route to explain it. If sentient, spacefaring life existed, the Milky Way galaxy and the Universe should be teeming. (this doesn't mean there isn't intelligent life; just saying that getting off planet is a whole new ball game.)


Still, I agree; a landing on the White House Lawn would be immediately suspect. The White House is only significant to the United States, and not to the entire planet.


Yeah, that was a minor point, though I suspect it's just a metaphor for landing out in the open.


Basically, I'm saying that if aliens were here, we'd be extremely well aware of it.

Just to bring the discussion back on topic, one of the things that I think people tend to overlook is just 'how' existence of aliens might affect us. As I said before, as long it had no effect on the World financial markets then any other kind of impact would have minor consequences.

In the past people talked about culture shock and religious beliefs. But these would not have a major impact at all (unless it happened to cause a problem on Wall Street).



posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by schuyler

That assumes a nuts & bolts, EBE scenario limited by the Einsteinian view of the structure of the Universe. It may be that Einstein is like Newton. Newton's laws work just fine within Relativity, but they are a sub-set.


I suppose it's possible to get into space without significant technology, using the indigenous life forms. Sort of a 'Pecos Bill' rides Namu the Spacefaring killer whale into orbit, like Farscape, eh?


Some things just seem inevitable, though. Technology, low gravity home world, biological symmetry, stable culture.



If the White House Lawn Scenario unfolded, I would think a lot would depend on what ET had to say. There's a world of difference between, "Stick em up!" and "Help us; we're lost."


It's interesting, when you think about it, just how -we- would 'announce ourselves' to any population were we to journey to a populated planet. I don't think we'd be eager to run down the gangplank and shake their slimey tentacles, do you?



posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by Badge01
(Even at great distances I think there would or could be a number of indicators if the galactic core was densely colonized.)

Note in other followups to my post, the only way to get around this basic scenario is if you first postulate changing the laws of physics (or our understanding of them).


That's what I'm suggesting. If Einstein and Relativity are completely correct, then aliens from space is well nigh impossible because of the built-in speed limit, in which case UFOs are from here, only, or we may as well not come around here any more. Pack up. Go home. Find another hobby. It's looking pretty bleak for the WHLS, not to mention this entire forum.

But there IS that pesky Quantum Mechanics which also proves "true," and unfortunately, it contradicts Relativity. So, Houston, we have a problem. They can't both be right. That AT LEAST opens up the possibility that something else supercedes and incorporates both Quantum Mechanics and Relativity. In other words, "X is to Relativity as Relativity is to Newton."

As far as I understand String Theory and M-Theory have not been proven to the extent that relativity is accepted in the world of physics, so I really don't know if those ideas provide a sufficient enough explanation; I'm thinking Not, but I'm in the midst of trying to understand them. In any case, whether it's those two or something else, that's my ray of hope.

However, your idea that we ought to see some signs if the Galaxy is colonized also rings true. A Class 3 civilization should have blotted out their own suns by now, and we ought to be able to see that.

I see Badge has posted another one I didn't see when I started this. Apologies if I overlap.

Would I want to shake their slimy tentacle. Uh, no. I think I would be too frightened they would eat me.

[edit on 8/10/2007 by schuyler]



posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 05:58 PM
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Originally posted by schuyler
another hobby. It's looking pretty bleak for the WHLS, not to mention this entire forum.


That's just it. I think it -is- pretty bleak. Remember, besides the vast distances, there are other difficult problems. Organisms that evolved under gravity don't do well in space, nor do they cope well at all with radiation. I'd be shocked to discover that we are -not- quarantined to LEO.


However, your idea that we ought to see some signs if the Galaxy is colonized also rings true. A Class 3 civilization should have blotted out their own suns by now, and we ought to be able to see that.


Using a corollary of the Fermi Paradox, I have serious doubts that there exists class 3 in the entire Universe. IOW, I think once a civilization became truly spacefaring, then it would be completely free to develop to the maximum, having essentially assured its immortality as a species or race. That we don't see them here, tells me they're unlikely to be anywhere, given the time that has passed.


Would I want to shake their slimy tentacle. Uh, no. I think I would be too frightened they would eat me.

[edit on 8/10/2007 by schuyler]


Well being eaten might be preferred to the slow death of an alien virus!



posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 06:06 PM
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Badge01, I find you analysis somewhat flawed.



  1. Firstly, why are making the assumption the Galactic Core would be the place to look? The levels of radiation and density of stars there would make the place quite inhospitable.
  2. There could literally be hundreds of civilisations out there, but for one reason or another, we do not know about them.

    Some might not have the natural curiosity to even listen for "Aliens", let alone send signals. Other's may forbid it as "heresy".

    Others may have advanced way past the need for such "primitive" methods such as Radio. You make alot of assumptions, yet base your analysis off Earthly experience. Which isn't that Alien, is it?
  3. Even if the Aliens had the desire to leave their planet and even if they had FTL ships, the Galaxy is a huge place. Even at 100 x C, it would take 1000 years to cross the Galaxy. Many FTL Civ's could find themselves confined to an area of space no more than 100 LY across, or less. It all depends on just how fast any possible FTL drive can go. Any communication between them could be quantum in nature, as we are discovering ourselves now. It would be undetectable to us.


So, those are just a few of the flaws in your 1 Civ per galaxy theory. The main flaw being, you don't have the faintest clue. In a galaxy of between a few hundred billion stars upwards to trillions (depending on where you read), the odds are actually in favour of quite a few civilisations at various points in time.



posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 06:08 PM
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Originally posted by Badge01
Using a corollary of the Fermi Paradox, I have serious doubts that there exists class 3 in the entire Universe. IOW, I think once a civilization became truly spacefaring, then it would be completely free to develop to the maximum, having essentially assured its immortality as a species or race. That we don't see them here, tells me they're unlikely to be anywhere, given the time that has passed.


using that logic, Pacific Islanders could safely assume you do not exist because you haven't visited their little, isolated backwater and said "hi".

Fundamentally flawed, your thinking.



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