sick, sick people

Originally posted by malganis
Now_Then, that stuff is almost as sick as killing kids man.

Okay, maybe I was a bit OTT on that.

In a lot of countries the death penalty option is offered to the victims family - it can lead to a bit of corruption, but what if the judge / jury offered up several possible sentences and the family could select (i,e death or (real) life in prison). Admittedly that would only be appropriate for a small amount of cases.

I'd still like to see some more 'exotic' punishments - people like this still have human rights, IMO that is something that needs reassessing.

"Justyc" I agree, as you already know and I thank you for the welcome.

Also "Lombozo", I too thank you for the welcome and it is Ok if you don’t agree.

I understand the anger, I my self, often thought, going on a CP killing spree. However, it only makes things worst. I can not make that more clear. I know that this kind of thing is the worst of them all, but we need to do more, it is easy just to kill them and problem solved, or is it? This kind of thing is been happening all the time, and it is alive and fresh today as it was long time ago. The only thing that is not alive is our solution to the problem. I am sorry to say, but I just don’t see thing like this stopping any time soon. Unless we really think and have better low and better help for these people then it is today, things are going to stay the same...

Thanks all

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout

Originally posted by thesaint

How should young killers like this be treated??

If you want my honest opinion - with all the love and kindness that we can muster.

That implies they were not aware that what they were doing was bad. That they should be set apart for special attention (which they were, they had holidays and opportunities not available to many their age). Fine example that is.

All the money spent on them is far more then they will ever be able to contribute to the nation through taxes and work.

I understand that the media coverage made things very difficult in this particular case - but why did the charges stop at the two lads? Surly those responsible for their upbring should of been responsible in some measure.

Putting them through the correctional system seems very much like shtting the stable door after the horse has bolted.

Just for others sake: this post was regarding the case of James Bulger being abducted, killed and left on the side of a rail track in Liverpool by two very young lads something like 13 years ago - not the OP's initial story.

Originally posted by VolimteKW
"
I understand the anger, I my self, often thought, going on a CP killing spree. However, it only makes things worst. I can not make that more clear. I know that this kind of thing is the worst of them all, but we need to do more, it is easy just to kill them and problem solved, or is it? This kind of thing is been happening all the time, and it is alive and fresh today as it was long time ago. The only thing that is not alive is our solution to the problem. I am sorry to say, but I just don’t see thing like this stopping any time soon. Unless we really think and have better low and better help for these people then it is today, things are going to stay the same...

the biggest problem with jailing these people,VolimteKW, they serve 15 or 20 years in jail, where they are treated better than the average joe blogs, free education, skills, computer studies and so on. then they say they are different now and it will never happen again, they say sorry and they have found god, so the prison service lets them go on their merry way. until they get into the same kind of situation as before and kill another child. i dont know about you but i would not let that person any where near my 17 year old daughter.
my daughter is the only thing that i truely love in this mad world and if some nutter done her serious harm and i lost her, my life would come to a very quick ending. dont get me wrong here, i hate fighting, wars and even arguements, i am in my 40s now and i last fought when i was in school, i would walk away quicker and have done many times but take my daughter away from me and i will want revenge, it will not bring back my daughter but that person will never kill another human again, if i didnt get them before they went to prison, i would wait.
i agree with you about learning from them but the problem is, all these do gooders who think that these people should be back in society again, THEY DO NOT BELONG in society anymore. these people torture children, they have lost their place in a normal world, throw them in a padded cell, lock the door for good and let them die there..........
if you had a daughter and she came home some night and told you she had met the man she wants to marry and you found out he had murdered a child 5 years ago, would you give your daughter away in marriage to this man, i know i wouldnt, in fact she would never see him after i found out the facts about him...
i admire the people who have had a family member killed and they forgive that person but that is just not me and my daughter....
i would need revenge before my life came to a stop..

as for the social services in the uk
a complete waste of time, they fail children all of the time
they are called out to so many families with this problem and they let bruised and hurt children suffer more because they want the kids to stay with their mother, plain and simple. the people who failed this poor child should be jailed as well, they have took on a job to protect children and they failed very badly and should pay for that.

What kind of punishment should someone like this deserve? If you believe in what the bible says then you know that they will get their punishment in the afterlife... But then again wouldnt you have to have SERIOUS mental problems if you were to do this in the first place? Does the line "forgive them father for they know not what they do" go for this as well?? If it were an easy call then we would have solved the problem of what type of punishment to give these sick people long ago. But thats the problem isnt it? They are SICK people. "Normal" people would never even think of doing this to thier kids. If a schitzophrenic man were to kill someone because in his mind he thought they were the devil or something like that then can you really blame the schitzophrenic for killing them? I mean if you truly really believed that the person was the devil wouldnt you kill them too? (just a thought dont hate me) Its a tough call either way... But revenge doesnt solve anything. We need to focus on the heart of the problem. These people that do this- They were probly abused as children too. In their minds it must be OK to do this to thier kids. Its a F***** up world we live in thats for sure. I for one pray for those who this happens too, And i pray for those that do it to others.

Did anyone here see the story about the amish school shooting? Horrible. But did you know that the Amish not only held funerals for thier children that had been killed, but they also prayed for and held funerals for the guy that shot them. Now THAT is forgiveness that we all could learn from. GOD bless the amish!

sorry gravytrain
but i do not believe in "i was abused as a child" thing
i didnt have the best upbringing, not the worst but it should have been a little better and when my daughter came into this world, my biggest goal in life was to see her happy. i do not do the things my parents done on me, i slapped the back of her hand once, when she was young and it broke me to see her crying and she has never ever been hit or slapped by me again, my parents didnt stop because i was crying, they actually asked me if i really wanted something to cry about,lol, no thanks the belt and buckle did fine
i want better for my daughter and she is a lot happier than i was at the same age.

i done it because i was abused, is a load of crap, if you really want another child to suffer the same fate as you did (and i dont mean you personally gravytrain) then you do not belong in society.

children should be happy and worry free, or as close too that as possible..
not tortured

Spliffy I think that I didnt really articulate my real meaning that well. I TOTALLY Agree with you 100% that these people should be locked up and never see the light of day. BUT I think that by doing ONLY that we are not attacking the heart of the problem, only clipping the last few links in a long chain. Ok so you didnt have the best childhood, heck lots of people are abused as children and they turn out just fine. Like i said there is something majorly Wrong with these people. Maybe the start of it was them being abused as children. BUT they obviously are really screwed up people. Now i do think that they should be locked up for life because if you let them out 99% of them will be repeat offenders and they dont really learn anything. All's im saying is that we need to find the real heart of the problem. I dont even know if thats possible, but we need to do more to try. I would want revenge if my child was hurt or killed, for sure, but my revenge would not solve the problem, it would only help me to feel justice had been served. And taking the kids away from abusive parents and putting them into the foster care system is what happens much of the time and there really is no other way to do it. Its really sad. My heart goes out to all those kids who have been abused and i pray that they will have the strength to rise above their past and help others.
Peace.

Just a point: I find big blocks of text difficult to get through, you know difficult to UNDERSTAND

Hit enter once in a while... (sorry if this did not directly contribute)

Yeah your right thanks for the advice.

Im a newby here so any advice to help others understand my writing is much appreciated.

Peace.

I think the removal of all internal organs of the father and mother would be appropriate here.

What else can you say? Its really very sad to see so called human beings doing these atrocities to anyone, specially children- poor innocent children.

They would have to lock me up because i'd hunt them down like a dog, take the law into my own hands, and go to jail happily the rest of my life.
Satisfied i ended a monsters life.

:shk:

Originally posted by VolimteKW
Hi all,

I don’t agree. Violence for violence is wrong.
Same as:" eye for an eye, leaves everybody blind "I agree with that.

Try to see it this way: If you can images yourself doing something horrible to people who did something horrible, then how are you different, to me, it is very important that I am not as they are. I want justice, yes, but not revenge. I can understand the anger, I had it too, but, and I mean but, we can not justify one’s anger with another. Anger will always have horrible results. I want something better, I want from human something better, because we can do better, (let’s hope so)

I understand that this is hard and that this life (if you can call it life) is not easy by any means, but we are here, these people who do these things is not easily understood, there is more to it then meats the eye, that is if you haven't lost it

. Maybe I am wrong, but I am willing to listen.

Thanks all.

Do you have children? if not, you would think differently. I didn't know love, or fear, till I had a child.

I am sorry, but anyone harm my kid, violence on my part is going to be the least of their problems.

PP poster is right, the one satisfying thing about American prison systems is they don't take kindly to people hurting children. because most are there as a result of abuse as children themselves.

I heard a story of how a father was put in jail for putting his child's hands on a hot burner. He got a 3 year sentence but every single person on his block put all their cigarrettes out on him his entire sentence.

In fact, criminals know this, and they are usually at the mercy of a warden who threatens to spill the beans to the other inmates. That is justice in the least.

After having a child, I realized there is nothing so sacred, so innocent, and so in need of protection then a child. I hope there is a special place in hell for anyone who hurts one.

One thing that Michael Moore said in Bowling for Columbine that I completely agree with is that he didn't know how the parents just stood outside waiting for the authorites to handle things. About how much we put ourselves in the hands of the authorities. I remember watching the footage thinking, if that were my kid in there, I would have jumped the tape, very armed.


I have just been hearing so many sick stories lately that I can't help fear for the world my kid lives in.

These stories make me physically ill. That poor little angel child may she finally find peace. I believe Martina McBride sings a song about this called Concrete Angel.

It is so sad that these cases happen all the time. My daughter works with at risk kids counseling them with Equine Assisted Therapy. They have clients all over 2 counties and the program is expanding daily there are so many cases of child abuse and neglect. I fix the kids treats during camp and the last time I was out dropping off Rice Krispie treats one of the little boys asked me if I was the mother who had given birth to my daughter; when I said yes he was amazed. They have a group of 30 kids none of whom live with their biological parents.

I know that I'm enraged by these incidents and like most my heart cries out for revenge but may I suggest that we channel that rage into taking action to help. It's scary and sometimes these kids are scary but trust me it will be one of the most rewarding things you can do.

Please folks reach out to the children in your area; volunteer to coach, run a 4-H group, become licensed to provide respite care for at risk kids; do something. You may be the one person that makes a difference to one kid.

Channel your anger and take action to prevent any more of these angels being killed. If you see abuse report it and keep reporting it until they take action you may just save a life.

[edit on 13-8-2007 by gallopinghordes]

[edit on 13-8-2007 by gallopinghordes]

can i ask the posters who are asking for some kind of understanding to take place here....do you have children?

I ask because DGTempes idea was fine to me, as was (i think it was) Now and Thens.

I dont think i'm sick in the head but i cannot think of any punishment bad enough for monsters like this. I really can't.

I can only think to make them suffer as much as they made the child suffer. So for these two, punch them, kick them, pull their hair out (they found clumps of this childs hair in the bin outside as well as blood "swipes" on the walls), burn them, bite them, i don't give a crap, they deserve everything that could possibly be done to them. And it should all be done by two very large and powerful men. And it should be done until they die.

I know this is a stupid experiment, but punch yourself on the arm. You probably wont do it very hard cos YOU are doing it, but i can bet it will still hurt. Then imagine doing that over and over and over, with full force to a child a third of your size. Not just on her arm, in her face, stomach, anywhere.

Then tell me these things deserve any kind of second chance

Originally posted by geek101
can i ask the posters who are asking for some kind of understanding to take place here....do you have children?

The point is not to have understanding for the abusers/murderers of children, but to not become a bloodthirsty sicko in revenge.

Yeah if I had kids and I found out someone had abused/killed them i'd go out myself and beat the culprit to within an inch of his life with my own hands then throw him in jail.

But I wouldn't want to see him used for torture in a mainstream tv program just for public entertainment. Surely that would just take more of society's morals away and ultimately create more killers/abusers. You'd have the whole public becoming sickos.

And then just think about people that are wrongly accused, etc, it does happen.

Originally posted by Now_Then

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout

Originally posted by thesaint

How should young killers like this be treated??

If you want my honest opinion - with all the love and kindness that we can muster.

That implies they were not aware that what they were doing was bad. That they should be set apart for special attention (which they were, they had holidays and opportunities not available to many their age). Fine example that is.

They were special and should have been treated as such. They were children.

Would you wish to be defined all your life by a mistake you made when you were ten years old? Admittedly, they made the most terrible and horrible mistake that they could have made, but just imagine being ten and doing that. They willl for as long as they live be reminded of what they did, they will never be free.

Did they know it was wrong? Yes and no. Cast your mind back to how narrow your perception of life was at 10, imagine that no one cares less where you are or what you are doing. No one cares about you (or so it seems), you have no prospects and no-one to make it better.

With that perception of life, why should anyone care for a child seemingly wandering alone? Yes they killed and tortured James Bulger. They tried to cover it up which indicates they knew that they had done something wrong. I don't think that they understood that anyone would care. I don't think their perspective of the world had equipped them with the knowledge required to value life.

Whatever the crime, no 10 year old should be written off. That doesn’t mean that I think that they should be free. The punishment should fit the crime and the criminal. Society, in a case like this, should look within. All three of those children were failed by the adults around them. They were below the age of responsibility. That means they were not responsible. The adults were. Parents, teachers, social services, DSS – any number of individuals and agencies who failed in their responsibility to these three children (and similarly to Leticia in the OP). And, that responsibility should go all the way up until it stops. How many years down the line and how much do you think we as a country have really learnt from James Bulger’s death?

Venables and Thompson were the result of their upbringing. I hope that they have accepted the crime they committed and learnt from it. I hope we never hear of them again. If they are healthy, normal young men then every penny spent on their imprisonment and rehabilitation will be money well spent.

Originally posted by geek101
.... i don't give a crap, they deserve everything that could possibly be done to them. And it should all be done by two very large and powerful men. And it should be done until they die.

While I can understand a parent avenging their child in anger, pain and grief. I cannot understand this. Passion is one thing, paying someone else to do it (with or without the law) is something else. Brutality replicates, so does kindness. You have to keep the balance.

I would prefer to see Leticia's mother sterilised and never allowed to be alone with children again. Same for the boyfriend. It seems to me the best way to prevent them from doing it again. It would though be an infringement of their human rights, so not an option. Certain sectors of our society are not functioning. This would have been less likely to happen 50 years ago, not because violence was less of an occurence just that otherw were more likely to intervene.

There are thousands of kids living horrible lives in the UK, there are deaths every week and they don't make news. Only on a slow day. This is an incredibly common occurence, as awful as it is, Leticia is not special. Maddy is special, the abduction of white middle class children by a stranger is one of the rarest crimes there is. It is unusual and shocking. What happened to Leticia is not. Isn't that shocking?

Originally posted by gallopinghordes

It is so sad that these cases happen all the time. My daughter works with at risk kids counseling them with Equine Assisted Therapy. They have clients all over 2 counties and the program is expanding daily there are so many cases of child abuse and neglect. I fix the kids treats during camp and the last time I was out dropping off Rice Krispie treats one of the little boys asked me if I was the mother who had given birth to my daughter; when I said yes he was amazed. They have a group of 30 kids none of whom live with their biological parents.

big respect to you gallopinghordes
you and your daughter must have hearts the sizes of trucks
i would love to be able too do that but i would crack. i would never sleep again. my friend is in a similar job and it totally breaks her heart sometimes but she is strong enough to do it and she is very good with children.
big respect for you guys

sorry graveytrain if i miss took what you were saying
killing these people will not find us an answer, they are studied in prison, when they are not being kicked about like a football by the guys, but that is not a lot of good too all them kids having to suffer now.

and sorry but the social services here in the uk are a waste of time and that needs changed now.

as nixie_nox said
when YOUR CHILD is born, the world stops for awhile, i was afraid of holding my baby for 2 days because i was scared i would hurt her, she was so fragile and i suddenly realised what life is about, my precious daughter. i hate hearing her cry and i cant understand how anyone could torture a child and listen to that child screaming, they must have a cold heart
as malganis said, the beating of an abuser should not be a public hanging or a tv show but they should be at least took out of society, forever.

btw nixie
the abusers get a bad time in the uk as well from the other prisoners

Unfortunatly this type of thing happens to often.
It's horrifying and heart breaking.

Some cases you hear about more than others.

The one that has stuck with me for the past several months is Rebecca Riley

If this was a world where more vigilante type justice happened, I would happily own a string of buisnesses like the torture chambers in Hostel.

There's also the list: Rubber tubing, gas, saw, gloves, cuffs, razor wire, hatchet, Gladys, and my mitts.