Britania Rule Waves & Islam

At one time, Great Britain ruled all the choke points in the world, Gibraltar, strait of Magellan, strait of Malacca, cape of Good Hope, the Suez canal, etc. The Union Jack flew always somewhere and never saw the setting sun. This British Empire was won, not by the Norman peers of the realm, but common anglo saxons, who believed that "weep not for me, for one part of a foreign field where I lie, will be forever England."

But they could not get certain areas. Like the Bosporus and the Dardanelles, and Afghanistan. The great Saladin was a Karkuk and would be a present day Kurd, and he beat the hell out of the crusaders including Richard the Lion Heart. It seems that even the mighty British Empire was never able to get hard core muslims and indeed the Union Jack saw many sunsets in these islamic reigons. If the USA is to be the big brother in charge of the world, they have to beat islamic jihad, lesson learned from the greatest empire in world history.

In context, Britain was hardly the "greatest empire in world history", and why is this thread in the Aircraft Forum?

Almost forgot my manners, welcome to ATS by the way.

[edit on 10-8-2007 by WestPoint23]

Originally posted by WestPoint23
In context, Britain was hardly the "greatest empire in world history", and why is this thread in the Aircraft Forum?

Actually at one point in time it was. Same as at one point in time The Roman empire was the greatest in the world, and Alexanders Empire etc etc etc. However unlike many other Empires, Britain ceeded much of it back to its inhabitants rather than losing it through wars.

Empires rise, empires fall. Thats life.

Except that he did not sayone of the greatest empires in the world, or world history. As such, this statement, "the greatest empire in world history" cannot be interpreted in any other way than in absolute terms. So as I said before Britain was not "the greatest empire in world history".

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Except that he did not sayone of the greatest empires in the world, or world history. As such, this statement, "the greatest empire in world history" cannot be interpreted in any other way than in absolute terms. So as I said before Britain was not "the greatest empire in world history".

And why not, Westy? In terms of Land area controlled, total population, international influence and military power, it was the Greatest Empire ever seen. How you can deny it is laughable. Name me a single Empire that was larger or more powerful than the British Empire.

What, exactly, constitutes a "great" Empire to you then?

Seems these days, you are more concerned with disagreeing with everyone than actually having a discussion.

Originally posted by stumason
What, exactly, constitutes a "great" Empire to you then?

That discussion is not worth having if you are not going to put it into context. It's like saying baseball player X is better because he hit more home runs in a 162 game season than player Y who played in a 154 game season. So I'll say it again, relatively speaking Britain was not "the greatest empire in world history".

Originally posted by stumason
Seems these days, you are more concerned with disagreeing with everyone than actually having a discussion.

Have I turned you down recently?

[edit on 10-8-2007 by WestPoint23]

Originally posted by WestPoint23
So I'll say it again, relatively speaking Britain was not "the greatest empire in world history".

Pfft, how cant that statement be relative? It's comparing the British Empire to all others so of course it's relative.

And you're flat out wrong. Put your pride and ego down for a second and just accept that the British Empire was the greatest the World has ever known. There was no equal to it's land mass and percentage of the World's population. Put up another Empire you think was greater or frankly shut up.

Originally posted by subz
And you're flat out wrong.

Really now lets not get carried away. Anyway I think it's time you set your apparent chip aside because I really don't care much about it.

Originally posted by subz
There was no equal to it's land mass and percentage of the World's population.

And you think those are the only factors which determine "the greatest empire in world history"? I suppose time span, influence, and relative dominance (amongst other things) have no value at all?

Originally posted by subz
Put up another Empire you think was greater or frankly shut up.

Thanks I'll take it under consideration, glad to see your good too...

Originally posted by WestPoint23
And you think those are the only factors which determine "the greatest empire in world history"? I suppose time span, influence, and relative dominance (amongst other things) have no value at all?

The British Empire lasted around 300 years, more than most Empires. It's influence is still felt to this day with it's legal system, language and methods of government still in use around the World today (including within the United States). As far as relative dominance is concerned it dominated the seas which was the crux of World trade and means of maintaining Empires. So yeah, they do count and the British Empire tops the lot of them.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Thanks I'll take it under consideration, glad to see your good too...

Why even bother posting in a thread like this if you won't even post your candidate for the greatest empire? It comes across as pure trollish behaviour: "you're wrong, wont say why, see ya"

Here's a list of empire sizes:

List of Empires by size

I know it's a wikipedia page, but it seems pretty good.

As for the British empire being created by Anglo-Saxons, as much (if not more) was contributed by enterprising (and in some cases ruthless) Scots.

The greatness of empires are difficult to define, the British Empire was founded on stolen gold from the Spanish Empire - at the time the leading European Power/Empire.

Anyways, it seems that empires are always doomed to making the same mistakes of their forbears, empires are also always doomed to ultimately fail. The Islamic world will change itself, hopefully for the better, unfortunalely all the efforts from outside the Islamic world have been detrimental to the very fabric and quility of life of those living within. This has simply served to create a brutalised and mentally damaged generation that are exactly what fundamentalist malcontents need to wage their war. Today's "Great Powers" have created their own enemy.

Originally posted by Chorlton
...However unlike many other Empires, Britain ceeded much of it back to its inhabitants rather than losing it through wars. ...

Actually Britain lost its empire through wars - just not wars within the empire. Britain both lost control in the wake of the two world wars which forced it to concentrate on the security of the british mainland, as well by the new political ideas carried home by colonial fighters. Same thing happened to the French in Algeria, by the way.

Anyway, without any malicious intent, it is quite obvious that the "greatness" of the British empire regularly has been way overblown. I once heard a comedian say "The Englishmen had to board ships in any case to get somewhere, so they skipped Europe and just sailed on to places where noone shot back".

Looking at a map it is apparent that the footprint the British left in their colonial phase wasnt exactly difficult to achieve. Biggest problem was that they never found a way to cohabitate with the local customs - basically they tried to impose the "superior" british culture in all aspects, which was bound to fail sooner or later. The Romans handled it better, they sought out the local leadership, made a compromise and left them largely in control.

[edit on 18/8/2007 by Lonestar24]

How can you argue it wasn't?

As many members have pointed out, the British Empire was in terms of Land area controlled, total population, international influence and military power.

WestPoint23, I struggle to understand your thinking here and why you feel you know British history better than us Brits

Or are you simply trying to derail a thread?

I'm surprised you haven't said America is the greatest empire ever

Actually Britain lost its empire through wars - just not wars within the empire

Majority was handed back, not all involved wars. Many Islands were just given back. Economics played a factor in it.





[edit on 25-8-2007 by infinite]

The Romans certainly had a fair amount of savvy when it came to colonising but to hold them up as some shining example of imperial power compared to the British empire is IMO mistaken. Remember they imposed their culture on subject nations as much, if not more than the British, leaving natives in charge maybe but only when they wore the toga, spoke lating and tore down their round houses and built villas, they enslaved thousands of these subjugated peoples while the British Empire began the process of dismantling slavery and blocking it where they could and they also suffered some major rebellions within conquered provinces on a fairly regular basis.

I wonder what the nationality of that comedian was. Strange how he references a 'British Empire' only to slur the Anglo-Saxon element within it. Is this another example of sharing in the glory but parcelling out the blame?

[edit on 27-8-2007 by ubermunche]