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Floating Arctic Ice Shrinking at Record Rate

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posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 06:52 AM
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Floating Arctic Ice Shrinking at Record Rate


www.nytimes.com

The area of floating ice in the Arctic has shrunk more than in any summer since satellite tracking began in 1979, and it has reached that record point a month before the annual ice pullback typically peaks, experts said.

The cause is probably a mix of natural fluctuations, like unusually sunny conditions in June and July, and long-term warming from heat-trapping greenhouse gases and sooty particles accumulating in the air, according to several scientists.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 06:52 AM
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While I understand that when it comes to global warming, there are many people that believe that this is a non-existant phenomena, or that the freak weather conditions seen around the globe are just that, freak conditions without rhyme or reason, to me, it's becoming increasingly obvious that each new report is a nail in the coffin of our planet. Regardless of whether it is caused by the 6.5 billion of us, or a natural part of the earth's cycle, can anybody really deny, when you read about things like this, or see everything that is happening, cumulatively, that our planet is changing, rapidly, and not necessarily for the better?.

www.nytimes.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 07:07 AM
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I agree with you.
I think the term Global Warming however puts a lot of people off, because it puts us at the helm of change. I'm not confident that we are the sole reason for this warming. I don't think any scientist can contain the massive calculations it takes to figure out why it is so and what's coming next, that's why they choose sides. That way there are a lot of numbers you can just bypass wether you on either side.

I think they all need to step back and look at how things in general work, ie. fluctuating. We have a season of warmth, a season of cold and we constantly alternate between these two. Not being a psychisist I couldn't say for sure but I bet that this kind of fluctuation takes place even in the smallest things. So why shouldn't it take place on a large scale too?

Our solar system could offer the same cyclus with warmth and cold and then the earth must suffer every so often, from one extremity to another.

Wasn't there also recently a theory proposed that said that the universe was like a rubber band? It will stretch out as far as it can and then collaps back into itself again, thus creating the next big bang and a new beginning... again, fluctuation.

Heck, even economy fluctuates as we can see currently in the states... that's just the way it is and we get burned in the process. Too bad, in my oppinion. Nothing more to say about that


[edit on 10/8/07 by flice]



posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 11:10 AM
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I am hoping that the warming throws us in an Ice Age ... but I know that takes a very long time. Though when Greenland melts (and possibly a large chuck of Antarctica simultaneously), we may see a massive cooling of the upper and lower extremes ... maybe enough to send some glaciers back down, if not, lots of people will die from being flooded on the coasts, malnutrition from being pushed out of their homes and loss of infrastructure ... which in turn, stops a lot of the CO2 and pollution itself. I guess earth is self-regulating in a way.

I do admit, some of it can be the sun cycle, planet cycle, galactic cycle ... but to think we have no effect, that would be the first time the human ego didn't think it was big and bad enough to make a difference.

I agree that the term has defeated the cause.

I think the real issue should just be global responsibility, cleanliness. Do it because it is the right thing to do, regardless of the CO2 level. Stop cutting down the rainforests, stop screwing with the natural water flows, stop with the pollution ... just because it is invisible, doesn't mean it isn't harmful or ugly.

I think we need the Indian commercial back, except a tear from stuff thrown out a car window, the tear comes with a factory behind him, another with a rainforest turn to a desert, another with chemical dumps in the water ... make the issue one of moral duty and human safety. The results will be the same no matter where you stand on the issue. We need a image of impact, and intelligence isn't cutting it these days ... we need imagery that hits the heart and mind.



posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 04:58 PM
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Honestly, though, I think we are beyond the point where just changing your lightbulbs and driving less will make a difference. The mass consumption starts, partly, with corporations, with countries so poor that they sell off their only assets - whether it's forests, fossil fuels, or simply over-farming..

We all need to take individual responsibility, but we also need legislation, on a world scale. We need broad sweeping and carefully thought out actions to clean up our planet.



posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 05:31 PM
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Originally posted by Inannamute


While I understand that when it comes to global warming, there are many people that believe that this is a non-existent phenomena,
No, I think most agree the planet is warming. Just if the warming is primarily caused by humans is the point up for debate still.



posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 08:09 PM
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Yeah shockingly the ice has "melted" from the 1979. It was only the coldest winter in the last century so it makes perfect sense to compare the ice situation today to the one we had on the coldest point of last century right? Sure the ice has melted from 1979 but that hardly means you should keep that as the benchmark where the ice should be.

And no im not saying the climate isnt changing but stunts like this makes me wonder if there really is no doubt on the matter, why do they keep doing stunts like this while trying to prove their points.



posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 08:37 PM
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I am sure that the people doing this would also refer to historic Maritime Charts as to the extent of the Sea ice though.

However, this is hardly a "stunt". It is an observation. The ice has retreated since 1979. As to the extent of the retreat in relation to any average ice covering is up for debate, but historic data should also help.



posted on Aug, 11 2007 @ 08:59 PM
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Being in the weather/ climate industry i can say that we cant actually be sure if global warming is the result of our actions. Dont get me wrong, Im sure that the use of CFC's, fossil fuels, etc does have an impact, but we cant be sure how much of an impact. Climate data only goes back 100 years (in Australia it does) so how do we know that this isnt a long term heating/ cooling cycle which is normal for the planet?



posted on Aug, 12 2007 @ 04:04 AM
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The people that bother me are the ones that decide that either (a) global warming is completely a hoax or a myth or (b) it may be happening, but we're either not doing anything, or there's no point in acting in ways which are less damaging to our environment..

Even if there is no global warming, or if there is nothing we are doing or can do to change things, logically, it can't HURT us to treat our environment with more respect, to use it more gently.

There's a scientist once, a famous one, that was asked if he believed in god or not, or if he prayed.

His response? "I don't know if God exists, but I can either act like a good christian, or not. If I act like a good christian, and pray, and everything, then I'll be going to heaven if god exists, or if he doesn't, I haven't lost anything. If I don't behave myself, then if god exists, I'm going to hell, or if he doesn't, I haven't gained anything, therefore, it makes most sense to believe in god, or to act morally, and pray as if he does."

Global warming is the same way. We don't know anything for sure, we can't get everyone to agree. But what's it going to hurt for us to act less like jackasses to our planet?



posted on Aug, 12 2007 @ 06:02 AM
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Originally posted by Inannamute
The people that bother me are the ones that decide that either (a) global warming is completely a hoax or a myth or (b) it may be happening, but we're either not doing anything, or there's no point in acting in ways which are less damaging to our environment..

We don't know anything for sure, we can't get everyone to agree. But what's it going to hurt for us to act less like jackasses to our planet?


Yeah im sure its a brilliant idea to waste billions of dollars to continue building cool computer models thats only purpose is to try and prove a point, rather than use the money to actually do something about the problem. By doing something about the problem im talking about actual study of viable alternative sources and forms for energy and transportation.

Im all for reducing toxic waste dumping and actual pollution but when I see "solutions" to the climate situation like collection and storage of co2 from the athmosphere into underground facilities costing billions of dollars do you really think its worth it? Dont you think we should be using those billions for something useful like reducing the pollution we spew into the athmosphere with improved powerplant filtering and recycling systems and alternative energy sources?

Oh no lets all jump on the global warming bandwagon and waste the money we could be using for actual research to try and find ways how to prove we are behind the change in the climate even though everyone with a hint of a cluebag knows the climate is and always has been constant state of change. Im sure melting ice looks very scary with all the horror stories being spewed out. Maybe we should try and adjust into the reality of a changing climate instead of trying to adjust the climate to make us feel better about ourself?

Acting and wasting resources for something we can affect very little if at all in the long run instead of using the same resources for something that has alot more of an impact on the situation even on the short run can actually hurt us alot. I agree we need to stop acting like jackasses but theres more than one way you can go wrong on this issue.



posted on Aug, 12 2007 @ 11:04 AM
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Did you actually read what I said, or are you simply arguing with what you think I believe?

Computer models cost billions of dollars now? Funny, when I worked in research labs, they cost a few thousand.. There's inflation for you (or exaggeration, you pick..)

Acting with more care and consideration towards our planet, and a real perspective is what I was talking about, about looking at the situation that we face, realizing that this is something that IS happening. Sure, you can call it a natural cycle all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that people, plants, and animals WILL DIE as part of that natural cycle. It doesn't hurt us to stop polluting our atmosphere, it doesn't hurt us to stop polluting our seas. It doesn't hurt us to conserve our forests, and to plant new ones. Economically, sure, it may be painful, but I think living in the toxic dump we're creating for ourselves might just hurt a bit more.

I'm really not sure *who* you're arguing with here, the things you brought up haven't been mentioned so far, and nobody here is suggesting that trying to change the climate ?? is a good idea. Sorry, I haven't even heard of anybody attempting to do so. I'm all for efforts being made to reduce our consumption of fossil fuels and our impact upon our environment, who here has said that they weren't?

The climate may be in a "constant state of change", but that change is a chaotic but ultimately fairly stable system. Sorry, I apparently "don't have a cluebag", but I consider the mounting evidence that we are entering a massive period of upheaval as something we should be concerned about...



posted on Aug, 19 2007 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by Inannamute
While I understand that when it comes to global warming, there are many people that believe that this is a non-existant phenomena,


Some may but with the media coverage in the west i am sure most people realise that something is in fact happening.


or that the freak weather conditions seen around the globe are just that, freak conditions without rhyme or reason, to me, it's becoming increasingly obvious that each new report is a nail in the coffin of our planet.


It's not that these 'freak' weather has no rhyme or reason but that it has far too much of it. The climate may be changing but it should not do so in such localized and unforeseen ways. Frankly it's does not seem natural and we know how good reason to wonder how much of it is.


"Q: Let me ask you specifically about last week's scare here in Washington, and what we might have learned from how prepared we are to deal with that (inaudible), at B'nai Brith.

A: Well, it points out the nature of the threat. It turned out to be a false threat under the circumstances. But as we've learned in the intelligence community, we had something called -- and we have James Woolsey here to perhaps even address this question about phantom moles. The mere fear that there is a mole within an agency can set off a chain reaction and a hunt for that particular mole which can paralyze the agency for weeks and months and years even, in a search. The same thing is true about just the false scare of a threat of using some kind of a chemical weapon or a biological one. There are some reports, for example, that some countries have been trying to construct something like an Ebola Virus, and that would be a very dangerous phenomenon, to say the least. Alvin Toeffler has written about this in terms of some scientists in their laboratories trying to devise certain types of pathogens that would be ethnic specific so that they could just eliminate certain ethnic groups and races; and others are designing some sort of engineering, some sort of insects that can destroy specific crops. Others are engaging even in an eco- type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves."

So there are plenty of ingenious minds out there that are at work finding ways in which they can wreak terror upon other nations. It's real, and that's the reason why we have to intensify our efforts, and that's why this is so important.

DoD News Briefing
Secretary of Defense William S. Cohen


As to the other point the planet does not care about us and we certainly don't own it either.


Regardless of whether it is caused by the 6.5 billion of us, or a natural part of the earth's cycle, can anybody really deny, when you read about things like this, or see everything that is happening, cumulatively, that our planet is changing, rapidly, and not necessarily for the better?.

www.nytimes.com
(visit the link for the full news article)


Oh things are changing but i have seen little reason to suspect that we can manage the change or change it in exactly the ways we like.

In my opinion the aim of the 'it's you; stop it and starve' propaganda is simply to direct our attention away from the fact that it's not natural to start and that it's being used by some nations against others. What's worse is that they are actually successfully employing these lies to prevent energy generation and critical infrastructure investment that could be saving millions of lives all the while making a substantial part of the western world feel 'guilty' for living as well as they do.

Stellar



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