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Let's build a ship

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posted on Aug, 23 2007 @ 03:57 PM
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i say we should build a space ring around the earth and have space ships fire from there




posted on Aug, 23 2007 @ 06:19 PM
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Man, you don't want to get into the physics of a space ring. Between gravity fluctuations on the Earth and the pull from the moon, sun and closest planets, it would have to be monitored by some super computer not yet possible and built of a material that makes nanotubes look like spagetti-os. And that's not even taking into account magnetic effects, atmospheric effects, radiation and solar flares, impact movement and damage, etc.............
Building a space elevator would be childs play beside this beast.

I still think that the best solution is the GEO / LEO option. A transfer station in Low Earth Orbit and a space port / ship yard in Geosyncronous Earth Orbit around 40,000 km.
The mass driver idea is good for the initial boost to high altitude, but still requires a chemical rocket to complete the orbital insertion. This could be developed as a way to lower cost on delivery of hard supplies like fuel, water, structural components, etc. but fragile items like control assy., computers and Humans would still have to be launched some other way. The two ship system that Burt Rutan used is a feasible method that could easily be developed to replace the shuttle.
It's the gravity well that we live in that is the problem, and always will be. If we had the technology to power out and power in, we wouldn't be having this discussion. That is why they keep beating on the space elevator, it theoretically allows you to power or climb out to orbit and power or climb back to earth.
The only way to replace chemical rockets is to find some way to trick gravity into not seeing you. I guess that this would fall under the heading of anti-gravity. But even if it can be developed, you would still require some sort of thruster to move the craft. So you're back to a chemical rocket engine, although a much smaller one.
I have always liked the light ship, it's a cool design and functions as advertised. The problem with it is the low thrust generated. In space, it can be used to run solar sails etc. but won't function in a gravity well and atmosphere because of the low thrust and atmospheric interference. They also spin the model at 10,000 rpm which would be a problem for me at least.
As well, you have to leave your engine at home. This design rides on a laser beam, similar to the way that a sailboat rides on the wind. Mounting the laser on the craft and projecting the beam onto the reflector would simply light the reflector up. It would be similar to mounting a large fan on a sailboat and blowing air into the sail. The sail would billow out full, but there'd be no forward motion produced.
A light sail still works on action/reaction. The laser hits the reflector(action) and the reflector moves away from the laser(reaction).
This could be a good way to return samples from the moon, and to send probes to other areas of space.



posted on Aug, 23 2007 @ 07:26 PM
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reply to post by Direwolf
 

Actually if you have a device thats within a gravity bubble you need no other power to maneuver or do pretty much what you like.. With almost no energy usage other that to produce the field opposing the Quantum State. I wrote this a while back as a hoot but it pretty much explains what you get when you solve that mean ole mister gravity stuff..

How Little Green Men Do It…

If anyone has read the Postulate on GUT’s blog and has stopped rolling on the floor in fits of laughter then I’ll explain how the little green men show up to check us out every now and then.

As per Einstein no massive object can attain the speed of light due to the relative mass of the object would increase to the point it would require infinite energy to accelerate the mass of the object.

So this would mean that no craft could visit earth because any life that could travel the distances required would have to have a 10,000 year life span. And even at half the speed of light a molecule of hydrogen would punch a hole clean through our little puddle jumper. Also inertia would make the occupants become a sticky mess on the wall starboard wall if you tried to make even a slow turn to port.

So lets inject the postulate that the universe is indeed a quantum state where all matter is connected by the indefinable energy that was the quantum point of big bang fame. Now we have a medium that has a inverse tensor state between all matter causing the gravitational well created by matter. The possibility then exists to modify the quantum state causing the device used for modification to become massless in relation to all other matter in quantum space.

This may be accomplished by creating a controllable electrostatic state. I think I hear snickering in the audience.. give me a chance it gets better…
I propose a device that placed an extremely high DC voltage across a very high dielectric constant insulator. The same material used for the insulator could also be used for the super conducting low mass wiring. A ceramic made from Beryllium and Yiridium May make a low temperature super conductor while being a high temperature insulator.

This device may produce an opposition to the local quantum state rendering the device massless relative to all other matter in the universe.
This would produce a craft that would display specific characteristics and operational abilities. Let’s take a look at what such a craft would be capable of, and the both atmospheric / open space flight characteristics.

The craft would be capable of faster than c velocities with very little energy usage as the only energy would be needed is that required to produce the static field. Since the craft is massless a slight change in polarity of the static field would cause the craft to move in the relative direction generated by the variance in the field, basically surfing on a self generated gravitational wave. Since the craft is massless it is not limited in velocity and c becomes just a sign post.

Since the object is massless it then would not interact with matter in the universe. It would not be detectable once static level rose to the point it was 100% massless in relation to all other matter, as light and any other wave in the quantum state could not exchange information between the craft and other matter. But if the static state is reduced the craft would be variable and have very low but still be able to interact with other matter in a controllable manner.

Next Message continues



posted on Aug, 23 2007 @ 07:27 PM
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reply to post by Quantummist
 


So we, as the traveler, could become massless as we head out into space and as we entered the atmosphere and gravitational well of a planet we become low mass so we can ride the magnetic waves of the planet for controllable flight without aerodynamic flight controls.

The flight between planets would be very safe as any particle, object or for that case a planet simple would not interact with the craft. The craft would basically not exist to external massive objects. So while the craft is running on all fours at say 50 times c it could go in a straight line through a million planets and never fell a thing.

From the stand point of bugs splatting on the windshield we would be good to go but about that turning hard to port and being a splat on the wall that’s not an issue either. The aspect that causes you to be pushed into your car seat is inertia and using my postulate the effect of matter in motion relative to other matter is due to the inverse elastic state of the quantum fabric of the universe. If you are inside a craft that is relative massless then inertia would only apply between you and the craft so a craft with such a drive would be able to go from 0 to c in 0 time and the driver would never know he left the gate. The craft could do a 180 at 5 times the speed of light and the pilot would not even spill his coffee on the dash board.

Now while I’m a the kind of guy that requires extraordinary proof when presented with an extraordinary claim this little craft I envision fits every aspect of the many UFO sightings over mans history, the seeming imposable speeds, vast distance of travel, turns and stops from imposable speeds that would tear our pilots apart in the seat, the vanishing in mid flight as they became massless to the observer, the erratic atmospheric flights as the low mass craft adjusts its static field to compensate for the magnetic and gravitational fields of our little ball of rock.

So there you go an overview of how the little green men get here to gaze at you on moonless nights and study their Colony …. But that’s another blog…



posted on Aug, 24 2007 @ 09:09 PM
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I am not sure its possible to cancel out mass and inertia. And without inertia how could the space craft pass through planets? If it was possible for the space craft not to have inertia, wouldnt that take more energy then just the simple propulsion?



posted on Aug, 24 2007 @ 10:20 PM
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reply to post by Earth_Entity
 


No.. Inersia is a function of a massive object moving in relation to other matter . Understand I'm just using my postulate of an interconnected Quantum State.

So if you alter the local connection the object would be massless relitive to anything out side the field. Image a Bubble where the Device that produces the Inverse gravitational bubble is in the center of the Bubble. If I alter the field so the field is larger on one side than the other the Device would by conservation of energy seek equilibrium withint the bubble . But since the bubble is created by the device as the device moves to center the bubble moves with it so you surf the gravitational wave the device self generates. Thats why inertia is not needed for travel in any direction.

I know it sounds far featched but if you read the Postulate you will see that I also show a proof of concept device that if it does as I suggest proves my concept. The idea is based on Teslas work in the 30's and the brown effect..



posted on Aug, 25 2007 @ 05:15 PM
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Pardon my ignorance here, but is what you are postulating a bubble like feild that isolates the generator and craft's Local Reality from Universal Reality. By modulating the feild strength and shape you would be able to "slide down" gravity feilds that exist in the universe while insulating the craft from the physical effects, because the feild would cause a zero mass condition on the Local Reality as veiwed from the Universal Reality.
Because the Universal Reality is insulated from the Local Reality, it would have no effect, so even though you are moving at a great velocity, there would be no inertia or momentum involved with your travel. You would carry your gravity with you in a bubble, ignoring the gravity feilds around the craft, except for the use made to move the craft.
I would think that there would still be some effect of the feild on the Universal Reality. As there would be a zone of interface between the two Realities, the feild would have to exist in both realities at the same time. So although the Local Reality would be mass less, would the feild not be interacting with the gravity, magnetic and radiated feilds from other astral bodies? I would think that waves and particles would affect the feild in some way. Solar radiation hits the Earths magnetic feild and creates the Northern Lights. Would something like this happen in your postulation?



posted on Aug, 25 2007 @ 08:29 PM
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You'll have to forgive me for not reading the whole thread before posting.
(I have a migraine, so sue me.)


Anyways, I designed an interplanetary ship awhile back, simply because I felt like it.

Some of the stuff is'nt exactly usable yet, but it will become viable in the next 50 years
at the most, honestly it's more just the Fusion generators more than anything
that date so far forward.

I gave it a name, the Odyssey, so in the explanatory notes (which are from when I first
created it) reference it as such.




The Odyssey is a large Interplanetary civil transport ship.


A. It's main propulsion source are two Dilithium/Tritium fusion rocket engines.

B. The large sphere in the rear of the ship houses the engines and fusion power plants
that provide the power for them and the ship as a whole.

C. The main fuselage of the ship contains many things, namely the fiber optic
communication system, power distribution cables and zero gravity R&D chambers.

D. The main living ring is where the passenger area is.
The ring is comprised of six decks on the inside and is protected by a hull made of Titanium,
lead and carbon nanotubes, with an outer layer of three inches of perfect lattice diamond.
It is spun to provide .7 gravity.

E. The command ring is a smaller ring spun to provide 1.0 gravity. It is the ships
main command center.

F. The impact shield is comprised of a four feet of perfect lattice diamond and five
feet of steel with carbon nanotubes interlaced. It also houses an Electro-Magnetic field
generator that helps by deflecting 70% of material out of the ships way within a two
mile range in front of the ship.

G. The maneuvering engines can turret 190º. They are used to reduce the ships cruise
speed by 30% and to flip the ship around for deceleration.

H. There are four sets of escape shuttle-pod strips, each containing six escape
shuttle-pods that can carry twenty-five individuals each.

I. There are 8 separate weapons clusters, four in the impact shield spaced randomly,
and four on the main living ring spaced equidistantly around the ring.


The ship uses a Super-Computer to provide for the complex calculations required for the
course plotting and acceleration and de-acceleration maneuvers.
The ship can hold a maximum of 100 crew members and 600 passengers.
The ship is armed with Magnetic Acceleration Guns (Railguns), point defense lasers
and cluster missiles.



Not sure it's what you're looking for, but I figure I might as well submit it if not for anything
but possible reference material.



posted on Aug, 25 2007 @ 10:49 PM
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reply to post by Direwolf
 


Not quite Direwolf.. I know I sometimes make it clear as mud, I'll try to clarify. In my postulate there is only one reality, and only 4 dimensions. Thats all thats needed to explain most of the physical rules we are governed by are still valid . Its simplifies This one and only reality.

First consider that every particle of matter is attached to every other particle of matter in the Universe By the Quantum State. In my view Gravity is NOT intrinsic to a massive object Just because it has rest mass. The Gravitational Well around an object is Caused by the Local number and separation distance of What I call a Smallest Physical Particle. These are primordial particle from the BB. They are the Matter left over after it ran into Anti-matter during Inflation.

My postulate says that the Quantum State is the left over energy after the BB. So we have real little balls of stuff and each one is ringing and producing EM waves that propagate through this quantum state.

Its Imposable for my to verbalize the bubble because its not really a Bubble.
If you followed what I just said then you can imagine a rubber sheet as a 2 dem view .. The old version of this was a ball sitting on it and the sag was the Gravitational Well. But I see it that it or any object does not SIT on the sheet its in fact The Sheet itself. When you move the object on the sheet its attached to the sheet and every molecule of the sheet is another particle. The cause of the well is a local grouping of stuff that are at closer and closer separation distance.

Because of this The reason a Massive objects has the displayed Effect aspect of gravity is because it is a local group of these SPP's

So if I could (Big IF) create a field that was in direct opposition the the, due to Altering some property of the quantum state, alteration made by the massive object to the quantum state then in a since its a Bubble but is a field bubble that would only alter local QS around the device .

So its not another dimension or another reality or anything like that its just an area that the object generating the field is Massless in relation to all other matter in the universe.

I base the idea that the possible way to alter local QS on the Brown effect and the experiments of Tesla in the 30 when he demonstrated a rotating device that only use high voltage static charge to rotate it. In that a Very High energy stress placed across an area of the Quantum State MAY cause a variance in the local QS.

I only wish I could better explain as it seems a simple view of the universe in my head but seems to get muddied on the way to the type.

Of this I swear. I started thinking of this postulate back in the early 90's and one of the things my view told me was that the universe would expand forever and would also increase in rate as it expands. 5 years later it was observerd the the universe in expanding at an ever increasing rate. Ad I said the value of c is variable but because it varies at the rate of expansion we would alway observe a constant.. This explains the Slowing of the Voyagers . If you consider the speed of c is faster outside our local well then it computes ..But say c is constant and their slow...



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 03:07 PM
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So everything in the universe is connected in the quantum state. Mass doesn't cause gravity, it just allows gravity to bleed through in proportion to the mass of the object. The SPP are suspended in the universe and scattered in proportion to the mass objects. The SPP are what cause the gravitational feilds that we have as well as producing ElectroMagnetic waves that propogate through the interconnecting Quantum State.

So the Quantum State is a energy feild consisting of gravitational and electromagnetic waves that connects all physical (mass) objects in the universe.

The device that you propose would suspend the connection to the Quantum State by producing an interference feild that resonates at the inverse frequency of the electromagnetic waves, cancelling out their effect upon the device. This would allow the device to be essentially weightless as the gravitational waves would be countered with the electromagnetic waves.
Varying the feild strength and shape would only increase the size and change the form of the interference feild. If you changed the frequency of the feild, it would cease functioning. I can only see this feild as a on/off switch for gravity. I don't see how you could use it for propulsion.

Unless you had several devices. One running an intereference feild that covered the mass of the ship, and several small projectors that ran at the same frequency as the Quantum state. The feild from the projector would create a EM feild that matched the QS EM feild, allowing a action/reaction or repulsion force to move the ship around. By projecting this feild outside the main interference feild you would be able propell and control the ships movement.



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 10:42 PM
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These people seem to have it all figured out.

Space Island Group

Its a damn shame that NASA is run by pencil pushers more interested in building that monstrosity otherwise known as the ISS.

Oh and who needs carbon nanotubes.

Space Fountain



posted on Aug, 27 2007 @ 06:35 PM
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Originally posted by Direwolf
The SPP are what cause the gravitational fields that we have as well as producing electro magnetic waves that propagate through the interconnecting Quantum State.


Far out someone that at least is trying to understand my late nights rants..

To Clarify, the SPP's I propose are the primordial matter converted out of the BB and is what we perceive as Massive objects. These SPP's are set ringing and are therefore causing a wave form which propagates out. If you have 10 SPP's the final wave form is that of the heterodyned combinations of all. So on a Micro level it give a view of an atom where a group of SPP's are drawn together by having EM signatures that heterodyne and find a harmonic balance that allows then to find a energy between, bound by the EM fields. Then when we look at them, we as a big grouping of connected SPP's ourselves, impact that which we seek to observe. And because of that connection we and any material we select to build equipment to observe are Intrinsically biased.

So from the device construct we have a Device that is made of SPP's, the device is a collection of naturally selected groupings of SPP's which we observe as elements. They then act as a group due to local separation of the SPP's and its this separation distance is the cause as the UGC is varied locally by the close separation of SPP's. To waves this condition is seen as a medium and explains the slower passing of photons through a medium I think better than the complicated absorption / retransmitting model we have today.

By altering the local EM fields I am proposing that Quantum State is altered so that the alteration in the QS created by this local grouping of SPP's causing the Effect of gravity can be canceled out. All the existing physical rules apply to all stuff inside the field relative to all other stuff inside the field, All rules apply to all stuff outside the field to all other stuff in the universe , but theres no interplay between inside and out. So to an outside observer such a device would become less and less massive until the EM stress field reaches an equilibrium point with the QS. At that point, to the outside observer, the device cannot be detectable as is covered very well under GR and SR theory.

There is no way to physically model this and predict if my test device will or will not go roundy roundy. But, as in the Brown effect, there are effects that we have not gotten a handle on. So after reading Tesla's work and many views on the Brown effect I though that in order to test my view, which unifies all 4 forces and give a unified view of GR,SR,QM and ST as different aspects of a simple state that is observed by those that are inside that they observe leading to inherent bias that causes the observer to assume things because we are inside, I suggest the vane device. If my view is right the device will rotate in one direction and if the field is reversed it will go the oppsite way.

My explanation of why is that the EM Stress caused across the dielectric alters the QS between each SPP in the dielectric and each then attempts to center within the field , conservation rules causes the vanes to move as the vane tries to center in a field it is creating.



posted on Aug, 28 2007 @ 09:23 PM
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So have you built this vane device, and if so, what were your results?
Another question. Any theories as to the frequency of the EM feild required to interfere with the hetrodyne frequency of the QS?
I ask because I am in the process of acquiring some materials with which to wind some coils, and if I had some idea of the frequencies required, I could look into getting a frequency generator in the range. I wish to experiment with some coil designs that I've had on the drawing board for several years and have now the time and space to do so.
You mentioned that you have read Tesla's work. You obviously have a greater understanding of physics than I do and access to material that I don't. In my research on Tesla, I came across a reference to a coil or coil configuration that "jumped off the workbench" when powered. But it was a passing reference and I've never found anything like it since. I can't even find the book that mentioned it. Have you ever ran across such a reference?
I think that I'm getting a handle on your theory, but am going to have to read through it a few more times for it to totally sink in. Thanks for the brain expansion.



posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 05:00 PM
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My head hurt reading the posting between Quantummist and direwolf and I will have to read them a couple of times to grasp them fully.

So based on the current technology, exploring beyond the solar system is going to be a challenge as we will have to find a way to have multiple generations to get to the nearest star.

Begs the question what technology could be developed to power a space ship.



posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 05:01 PM
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reply to post by iori_komei
 


It is an interesting design, and probably functional if it was built. I'd suggest spinning the living quarters ring one direction and the command ring the other direction. This would balance some of the gyroscopic forces caused by the spinning sections and make it easier to control in flight. Otherwise, it would tend to wander in one direction and you would have to use alot of fuel to keep a true course. Even still, she'd want to move in the direction of the living quarters ring spin.
Can the lattice diamond coating be produced at this time? I've never heard of this before and it sounds interesting. It would definitely make an excellent meteor sheild.



posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 05:25 PM
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Originally posted by Direwolf
I'd suggest spinning the living quarters ring one direction and the command ring the other direction. This would balance some of the gyroscopic forces caused by the spinning sections and make it easier to control in flight. Otherwise, it would tend to wander in one direction and you would have to use alot of fuel to keep a true course. Even still, she'd want to move in the direction of the living quarters ring spin.


That is a good idea, and one I'll admit I would'nt have thought about without going
more over technical details.

Being that I'm not 100% sure on gyroscopic forces, would the command ring (smaller one)
spinning faster than the habitat ring (big one) help even things out further?




Can the lattice diamond coating be produced at this time? I've never heard of this before and it sounds interesting. It would definitely make an excellent meteor sheild.


Honestly I'm not sure, originally I had intended to use a diamond derived material that
itself is 40 times harder than natural diamond, but I could'nt think of what it was called,
so I figured I would use artificial perfect lattice structure diamonds.

I'm not sure if they could be produced in the amount required right now, but I've not
actually looked into it alot.

I intended them to be secondary protection after the initial Electro-Magnetic umbrella
cast in front of the ship.



posted on Aug, 30 2007 @ 03:12 PM
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reply to post by iori_komei
 


The command ring would already be spinning faster than the living quarters ring. With .7G in the LQring and 1G in the Command ring it would have to be spinning much faster already, especially with the command ring being smaller. You'd have to do some math to figure out the rpm and gyroscopic force that each is creating to be sure, but I'm sur that the requirements could be easily handled.



posted on Sep, 5 2007 @ 03:33 PM
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reply to post by iori_komei
 


How much of your design could we build today, iori_komei. what is the scale. If we want to leave the solar system, we are currently going to have to build a living module to cater for multiple generation.



posted on Nov, 4 2007 @ 02:08 PM
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Thats a good point Im thinking using a modeled down cheaper version than Apollo 11 may be a good idea. We could structurely land a base on the moon and land back in earth soon. From there we would bring a boeing type 47 and launch it off the moon which is possible due to the amount of atmosphere probaly the best idea tell me what you think.



posted on Nov, 4 2007 @ 05:22 PM
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It consists of six layers. 25%--outer layer, made of durable metal, 30%--second layer made of something similar to rubber, the third layer comprises 30%--once again metal. The final 4% is composed of a special magnetic layer. “If we are to charge this magnetic layer with energy, those machines will be able to fly anywhere in the Universe.”



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