admin edit: we don't post personal information on ATS, no matter the source.

[edit on 8-29-2007 by Springer]

Originally posted by chunder
I don't believe that at any point the author ever attempted to pass off the footage as real.

Therefore no hoax so why ban.


[edit on 28-8-2007 by chunder]

Chunder I have a lot of respect for you, but from where you say that he never intended the hoax?

1. Video posted on You Tube with no warning that it was CGI.

2. He gets involved here in the debate as Ummofriend without acknowledging that it was he's creation and is clearly trying to influence the way the debate is conducted. ( Check his posts)

3. In the LA Times article he clearly mentions that he was trying a "social experiment", WITH US!!!, I mean it does not get more repugnant than this and for this community to take it in stride like nothing happens it will send us 10 steps back. We were the mice and he was the scientist, wow now I feel better!

IMO this guy is no better tha Ghost Raven, John Titor people, Adamski and all the others.

Was he good? Yes
Does he has talent? No question
Is he a hoaxer? ABSOLUTELY

To befriend this guy it will be a SLAP in the face to all the guys that use their CGI skill towards debunking this type of stuff, treating this individual like he the best that ever live would be a shame and a mIstake.

[edit on 28-8-2007 by Bunch]

[edit on 28-8-2007 by Bunch]

Originally posted by Bunch
To befriend this guy it will be a SLAP in the face to all the guys that use their CGI skill towards debunking this type of stuff, treating this individual like he the best that ever live would be a shame and a mIstake.

Here, here! I couldn't agree with your post more. What he did was totally shameful. Hoaxers deserve no respect unless they declare hoax to begin with.

I am not claiming the video is real in any sense of the word. I suppose my biggest point is to bring light of how vigorously the video is being attacked and the fervor with which it has drawn the public into understanding UFO videos are a hoax.

For all we know this was all done on purpose.

The Haiti video was discussed on Countdown w/ Keith Olbermann on MSNBC tonight. Keith Olbermann and Derrick Pitts, an astronomer from the Franklin Institute, talked about the guy who made the video and how it's authenticity was hotly debated until it was revealed to be a hoax. I'm always intrigued when mainstream media covers UFOs/Aliens. While they dismissed the video as being a hoax, they were also open-minded about the possibility of intelligent life out there.

Bunch,

I agree with you entirely regarding hoaxers but no claim was made with these images. What lying and deception do you refer to ?

Does someone have a right to post something on YT without making any commentary - well, they are free to do so. The fact someone can do that and it throws the UFO community into a tizzy is a worrying thing.

If claims were made with the video, if supporting evidence were forwarded or if the authors comments on this forum were different I would wholeheartedly agree with you.

The big problem is why did anyone take this seriously in the first place, even before it was debunked as CGI. Even had it not been shown quickly to have been CGI there were still no reasons to believe it real and many to believe it fake.

It's sad that this has reached mainstream but it is the viewers that should be blamed not the author. At the very most it should have been seen as 20 seconds of entertainment.

There will be better and better CGI video until one day it will not be able to be distinguished from the real thing or debunked in the sense that artifacts are noted. When that happens whether someone believes if something is real or not will depend on the factors it always should have, rather than does it look good.

And in that respect this video has taken many a step closer to that point and I reckon don't shoot the messenger, on this occasion.


[edit on 29-8-2007 by chunder]

Originally posted by Bunch

Can we get a response from the mods or Springer on this issue? What's their take on having hoaxers explaining their work on this forum.

I haven't made up my mind yet about this one. I have been out of town at the Bay Area UFO Expo and haven't caught up on this thread yet and won't have time to until later tonight.

I certainly see both sides of the issue, Chunder's and yours. Let me catch up on the last 10 or so pages, think about it, discuss it with the senior staff and I'll post our thoughts here for a civil discussion on the matter.

Fair enough?

Springer...

Originally posted by Bunch
To befriend this guy it will be a SLAP in the face to all the guys that use their CGI skill towards debunking this type of stuff, treating this individual like he the best that ever live would be a shame and a mIstake.

I agree totally, it would be giving a green light to any of the CG guys here or elsewhere to make any fake they like and post it online anywhere as long as the dont claim its real on ATS. The only reaosn Vue hasn't been used up till now to make more fakes is simply put it takes too long to render out at that sort of quality. But with PC's getting ever more powerful things that would take just too damn long for most 3d guys suddenly seem a whole lot more attractive.

The simple fact that he helped support his own hoax with posts here on ATS proves to me that he was purposefully hoaxing. Saying that someone isn't hoaxer if they dont either post on ATS or add extravigant claims is hogwash the way I see it.

Also while it 'could' be argued that he didn't want to claim this as real (although to me the evidence points to the opposite), bare in mind he also didn't claim it was CG either. By letting the viewer make up his or her own mind he knew damn well people would take this as a claim of authenticty.

While this was a good quality fake, I have seen much better CGI in the course of my work. Although thankfully none have had the inclination as yet to do fake footage. The more attractive you make it to fake footage to become seen as 'the dude', the more people will start to consider doing it.

You either reward the hoaxer or you condem him, there is no middle ground.

Wayne...

Originally posted by Springer

I have been out of town at the Bay Area UFO Expo and haven't caught up on this thread yet and won't have time to until later tonight.

I certainly see both sides of the issue, Chunder's and yours. Let me catch up on the last 10 or so pages, think about it, discuss it with the senior staff and I'll post our thoughts here for a civil discussion on the matter.

Fair enough? Springer...

Uh oh. Some of us are really gonna get it when Dad comes home from work tonight. Mom told him everything and me thinks he's gonna use the belt.

Honestly, that is refreshing news and it will be nice to hear what the rules of engagement will be going forward. I suppose that explains the recent silence from the admins on this thread. Wow. I have been holding my breath hoping for some final resolution. Thanks for the "heads up". < exhales > Looking forward to some "Clarity amidst the chaos".

regards....kk

Obviously this video was created by people with power and wealth. The video looks so real but is revealed as a hoax was created in order to discredit a major sighting coming soon.

[edit on 29-8-2007 by CanadianVandal]

Originally posted by CanadianVandal
Obviously this video was created by people with power and wealth. The video looks so real but is revealed as a hoax was created in order to discredit a major sighting coming soon.

This is the best understanding of this crock.

There certainly are real UFO's out there. How do you know what to believe?

Don't look in here for your answers. Sory admin. but the quality of what is being submitted here will not lead to understanding. It only creates a diversion. People have been laughed at for saying they saw a UFO. Now, people are starting to see through that scheme for denial.

What is needed is another big push to make UFO sightings a social blooper.

I saw one in 1968 with 2 other eye witneses. That is how you do it. Get out and see for your self. How do you see them? I have information that IR or night vision equipment will allow them to be seen, even in daylight.

The main problem is that we are too busy running around. Like when that Baloon burned and fell from the sky. The guy taking the video was upset with people for not even seeing what was going on in the skies. No one even payed attention. They were too busy going here and there.

Take an hour and sit looking to the skies in the evening. It is relaxing and can be quite entertaining at times. I live in a rural setting, so that is easy for me to do, I guess.

I have seen a few things that make me scratch my head. There has been no time to properly document the events other than an eye witness account. That is how fast a sighting will happen. People who can film and photograph these things properly, are few and far between.

Instead of looking here, you should be out looking to the heavens. You will have a better chance of seeing the real deal.

Originally posted by chunder

I agree with you entirely regarding hoaxers but no claim was made with these images. What lying and deception do you refer to ?

[edit on 29-8-2007 by chunder]

Posting a videos of what is clearly un-earthly technology (atleast to us common folk), and labelling them "UFO Haiti/ UFO Dominican Republic" is what ... if not deception? Kindly elucidate on that matter.

Sure, the poster could come forth and say "oh, I never claimed it was real, I didnt say believe it, your beliefs are your own ..." but it does not take anything away from the OBVIOUS fact that this person deceived millions of people. I am also guessing he disclosed it as a CGI creation only because others had already reached that conclusion!!!

And, again, in my book all the respect and admiration (mine atleast) goes to those who caught the lie, not to the one who created it. Deception is deception, no matter how clever or glamorous.