that's the video produced to show the LA Times reporter it was done by barzoff or whatever name ummo was using at that point.

Originally posted by Crakeur
that's the video produced to show the LA Times reporter it was done by barzoff or whatever name ummo was using at that point.

Thanks Crakeur for getting me up to speed. As if we don`t have enough to contend with when validating pictures and videos of UFOs without these toys as well.

[edit on 24-8-2007 by bridas]

I would be interested in seeing these.

Originally posted by Crakeur
if anyone still has any doubts about this, ummo just emailed me three tga images from the original renderer without post-process (his words, none of that makes sense to me). one of the images is of the model for the ufo.

I had to find software to view them. very cool stuff.

Download IRFANVIEW. Very nice software, allows you to view ANY image format (just about) and also translates as well. So you could translate the TGA into JPG for uploading to this board if you like.

OK, I am just catching up on this thread and I must say, the last few pages have me a tad confused. I mean we are chit-chatting with the self-proclaimed hoaxer of these videos like he was some GOD. Even a site owner / mod is handling this guy with kid gloves.

So when is a hoaxer, not a hoaxer? If he turns out to be some cool French dude with Hollywood connections who likes to conduct "Social Experiments?"

Everyone is like star-struck. Woo...woo...I really like such and such and how did you do this etc. I mean we have in our midst the Jeffrey Dahmer of a Serial Hoaxers and we are all in awe.

Come on folks. This guy comes forward and is embraced with open arms on a site that typically loathes hoaxers. Where is the passion for debunking? Only a few have scolded him and they were cautioned.

Deny Ignorance Indeed. I just don't get it.

miffed....kk

Originally posted by kinda kurious


Come on folks. This guy comes forward and is embraced with open arms on a site that typically loathes hoaxers. Where is the passion for debunking? Only a few have scolded him and they were cautioned.

Flies with honey and all that. If you want someone to come out and explain how it was done, you don't make them feel unwelcome and hated. I know I wouldn't come here for self-flagellation if all I got were people breathing fire.

Originally posted by beverins
If you want someone to come out and explain how it was done, you don't make them feel unwelcome and hated. I know I wouldn't come here for self-flagellation if all I got were people breathing fire.

First, hate is a strong word and I never used it. Second, I thought this was, among other things, a UFO analysis site. It ISN'T a 3-D animators tips and tricks forum is it? I am more interested in simply seeing proof that he did do it rather than how it was done. BTW, this thread is labeled HOAX in case you forgot.

Horses for courses as the English say.

regards...kk (no flame from me)
P.S. In protest, I shall not eat French Fries for an entire week.

[edit on 24-8-2007 by kinda kurious]

It is very frustrating to see ummofriend/barzolff get applause for what is so obviously a deception. He may not have intended to fool 2million (who know he might have) but then was he expecting to have control over it?

So we have been "taught" a lesson pparently, we are supposed to learn not to trust videos and look for other corroborating evidence - other eyewitness accounts, media reports etc. BUT THOSE CAN BE FAKED TOO!!! just plant enough people in the right places, can be done with some planning.

What happens if (perhaps when) holographic technology reaches a point where video becomes irrelevant, how do you discern a hoax then?

I cant buy into the whole "oh learn to tell a hoax if you REALLY want the truth". Just stop hoaxing AND SHAME ON YOU!

Originally posted by kinda kurious

Originally posted by beverins
If you want someone to come out and explain how it was done, you don't make them feel unwelcome and hated. I know I wouldn't come here for self-flagellation if all I got were people breathing fire.

First, hate is a strong word and I never used it. Second, I thought this was, among other things, a UFO analysis site. It ISN'T a 3-D animators tips and tricks forum is it? I am more interested in simply seeing proof that he did do it rather than how it was done. BTW, this thread is labeled HOAX in case you forgot.

Horses for courses as the English say.

regards...kk (no flame from me)

[edit on 24-8-2007 by kinda kurious]

Considering that this hoax was perpetrated by computer animation, then by its nature you have to get into (and has gotten into) the technical side of things. If it was a photographic hoax, then I would expect lots of discussion on camera stuff. A thorough analysis demands you get into the nitty gritty for educational purposes.

Anyway, I think he has been scolded by a few members. If you want to scold, then scold. I think the mods want to tone it down because otherwise we might get into nasty namecalling... Ummo wouldn't have shared that wireframe at all if he was getting scolded by all and sundry, would he? I know I wouldn't have.

It occurs to me that by trying to get a blow by blow account of how it was done from an admitted hoaxer, it actualy going to end up probably producing more hoaxes from others.

Right now there are a relitively small number of people with both the time, inclination and skill to do a hoax of high quality. Others may be lacking a simple bit of information that this thread will then provide them.

Right now the 3d industry alone is over populated so its going to get worse as people up their skill levels and try to make a 'splash' to get some attention in the job market.

To my mind all hoaxers should be treated by the same rules, regardless of station in life, connections or how well they did it. This is fast getting to the stage where some budding 3d guy will think its now acceptable to do a hoax as this guy got treated like a star. In a fame orientated society like we have today this is maybe a bit of a bad idea?

Hey its just my view, but makes sense to me.

Wayne...

[edit on 24/8/2007 by the secret web]

Originally posted by beverins
Considering that this hoax was perpetrated by computer animation, then by its nature you have to get into (and has gotten into) the technical side of things. If it was a photographic hoax, then I would expect lots of discussion on camera stuff. A thorough analysis demands you get into the nitty gritty for educational purposes.

Anyway, I think he has been scolded by a few members. If you want to scold, then scold. I think the mods want to tone it down because otherwise we might get into nasty namecalling... Ummo wouldn't have shared that wireframe at all if he was getting scolded by all and sundry, would he? I know I wouldn't have.

Scolding by a few members , imho, is not the same as being called what he truly is - hoaxer.

On his on admission, he wanted to study the public reaction (cant quite buy that though, seems more like an ego trip). For that EXACT reason, GhostRaven was outed and banned!

BTW, I just cant see how this helps UFOlogy in general, when hoaxing is not exclusive to this field. People pull hoaxes in all sorts of areas - religion, art, science... for various reasons, chief among them being to satisfy their egos.

Originally posted by 2believeor0

I cant buy into the whole "oh learn to tell a hoax if you REALLY want the truth". Just stop hoaxing AND SHAME ON YOU!

There are always going to be people who hoax. Billy Meyer, Chad and his CARET drones.. You know, at least Ummo came out and admitted it. Have ANY of the CARET hoaxers come out and said "hey, yeah, sorry, it was all fake"? No. Meyer's tales were never admitted and the CARET drone story is STILL being farmed out as "yeah, this really happened" by the people who made it.

So people like Ummo want to get you to think critically. If it weren't for him, well... - people like this "Chad" fellow would be able to pull an even more unbelievable wool over your eyes.

Wait until people like "Chad" or Billy Meyer decide to master a program like Maxwell Render for the pure purpose of making the perfect hoax. And yes, people WILL do that. The human mind is capable of what look like bizarre trains of thought. Look at the hard work that this "Chad" fellow put into his CARET drone illustrations. They are VERY nicely done - he even went ahead and invented an alphabet. Maybe there is monetary gain eventually, which helps to grease the initiative, but to be honest a lot of these is done for the sheer THRILL of fooling people. Really, that's all it boils down to, a far more complex and intricate "what's that over there? AHHHH got YA!!"

So The Hoax is NEVER going to go away as long as there are humans on this planet. Might as well learn how to do them so you don't get scammed.

Originally posted by Crakeur
if anyone still has any doubts about this, ummo just emailed me three tga images from the original renderer without post-process (his words, none of that makes sense to me). one of the images is of the model for the ufo.

I had to find software to view them. very cool stuff.

can you convert them to a Jpg, or do a screen capture I woud love to see it. I think the UFO model was very cool, making it complicated as opposed to a smooth skin was very interesting.

To everyone who thinks we should shun anyone who hoaxes and chase them out of town you are completely wrong. What if the next guy decides instead of coming here a goes and makes a hoaxing forum and gives out hints and tricks, and alll of the sudden there is an internet community of hoaxers doing this stuff.

No I would rather the haoxers come here, and we learn what we can from them and maybe if we act like adults the hoaxers will come away with a respect for what is done here and in the UFO community.

Wouldn't you rather have some one with these talents on your side debunking/ proofing the next UFO video?? I know I would.

BTW, I just cant see how this helps UFOlogy in general, when hoaxing is not exclusive to this field. People pull hoaxes in all sorts of areas - religion, art, science... for various reasons, chief among them being to satisfy their egos.

Well, it doesn't help UFOlogy at all in terms of it being treated seriously. There is no right and wrong here. I simply think its better to know how the magic is done, so that future magicians can't fool you anymore. If you can't be fooled, then a TRUTHFUL account, with some actual visual data will stand out all the more brightly.

As for detailed analysis helping others to do this - people can get this information anywhere if they are inclined to. Build up some friends online and you can have a whole team doing a hoax (as this video was claimed as being). Posting the info here isn't going to make anyone a hoaxer, its going to inform those people who think that "CGI cannot do this". Read the whole thread again and see how many people had to be dragged, kicking and screaming, to the realization that it was entirely computer generated. I find these people to be in dire need of this sort of education... Linda Howe, I'm talking to you!

Originally posted by Torlough


To everyone who thinks we should shun anyone who hoaxes and chase them out of town you are completely wrong. What if the next guy decides instead of coming here a goes and makes a hoaxing forum and gives out hints and tricks, and alll of the sudden there is an internet community of hoaxers doing this stuff.

There is no need for a 'hoaxers board' as there is already a very large number of 3d sites that have every technique a hoaxer would ever need on them if they are prepared to sit and learn. But that doesn't mean we have to round up a 'hoaxers guide' in effect here on ATS does it?

That is a bit like me saying "I hate hoaxers and want them run out of Dodge city...unless they are good then its cool and they can stay." I see it as either one rule for everyone or no rule at all I'm afraid

Originally posted by beverins



Build up some friends online and you can have a whole team doing a hoax (as this video was claimed as being). Posting the info here isn't going to make anyone a hoaxer, its going to inform those people who think that "CGI cannot do this". Read the whole thread again and see how many people had to be dragged, kicking and screaming, to the realization that it was entirely computer generated.

..untill next time when we'll go through the whole sad story again...


Wayne...

[edit on 24/8/2007 by the secret web]

Originally posted by the secret web
That is a bit like me saying "I hate hoaxers and want them run out of Dodge city...unless they are good then its cool and they can stay." I see it as either one rule for everyone or no rule at all I'm afraid

I agree. When the "Terms & Conditions" are flexible, you effectively don't have them. If I do this, I get banned. If Mr. Cool ummo does it, everyone gathers around and says, "Oh, Mr. Cool, this is so cool. How did you do it? I want to learn how to make hoaxes, too!" That is inconsistent and confusing. GhostRaven admitted his hoax, too, and was instantly banned. This site needs to sit down with all its Mods and have a heart to heart talk about consitency of enforcement of the T&C.

Sorry, I just cant let this go...

(Posting a composite reply)

Why not come to this board as who you truly are(a CGI artist) and let everyone know you made this cool video in 17 hours, and it is very life like etc. etc. i.e. Come forth as an expert if you are one, instead of fooling people. And then we can all learn a whole lot more. REmember most people out there are not CGI experts, and therefore extremely likely to take the video at face value.

Saying that we learn from hoaxes is really a round-about way of getting an education. If this gentleman had any honourable intentions he would have registered here first , letting us common folk know how a CHAD drone could even be animated; then posting on youtube with a title making it clear this is CGI. I would have great respect and admiration for him in that case.

It is almost like a hacker breaking into millions of bank accounts, taking from their savings (even if temporarily) just to point out security flaws. There are better more understandable ways to do that.

Dont get me wrong, I still appreciate him coming forth, but notice he was posting since aug 16th, and outed himself after the LA Times story was out 6 days later. Also, note that the experts here (hats off to you all again) had debunked this quite effectively, and in record time , (imho) with NO help from him.