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French Bank freezes US funds;Stocks Plunge on Rising Credit Anxiety

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posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 06:24 PM
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Why do people freak out? They know this is a gamble, why don't they just wait it out?

The fear is what makes matters worse.




posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 06:26 PM
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Originally posted by Stormdancer777
Why do people freak out? They know this is a gamble, why don't they just wait it out?



Is call spending confidence, if people lose confidence, they stop spending.



posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 07:14 PM
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Great assessment of the situation here:

www.safehaven.com...



posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 07:23 PM
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Terrapop, thanks for the link I read it and is exactly just about what I have know for a while just as a possibility.

Mr. Doug Casey sure knows what he is talking about and he can put it on better words than anybody else, specially those that are trying to hide the true and feeding lies to the American people.

Nice read.





posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 07:29 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
Why do people freak out? They know this is a gamble, why don't they just wait it out?



Is call spending confidence, if people lose confidence, they stop spending.



Yes and that is the worse thing they can do, and they know it, yet they do it,

someone once said this,
Money is like manure, of very little use except it be spread around.



posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 10:24 PM
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How many understand this economic turmoil is the key leading up to a NWO

ONE world Gov't. This has been an important issue to me for a while and most american's wont notice it till the price inflation SPIKES and they can't afford to buy gas and pay there energy bills or afford new gadgets and foot and rent. people will be laid off, consumer spending will shrink, and the Fed will cut rates which will not do much good, (you can't force people to borrow once consumer confidence tanks) it will only help give some banks more air , this is going to be the death blow for the middle class as well as the Dollar.

The Amero is coming, a North American Union is coming. and america will not be the top of this order

soon you will not be able to make large transactions out of american assets soon foreigners will use there dollars to buy the bottoms, and then they will not re-finance us as they see the american consumer will be out of gas, with higher prices killing there disposable income as well as them going into survival mode.

Unemployment is coming in the USA

This Plan is going to be executed, and you don't want to be in the United States when the meltdown occurs, I see more of a long steady Decline, and the Russian Oil burse may look more attractive to other nations who are looking for a reason to hold less dollars to pay there energy bills.

Djhonsto77 i would ask you to look into details a little more, the united states is a lot shakier than you think, emerging markets in brazil india and china (which will turn into more of a consumer nation) will pick up some slack from the u.s consumer, also a reason the united states has prospered so much is because we were able to export inflation to asia and OPEC country's they are no longer willng to finance us.

there is a chance the world markets could have a meltdown and this thing could truly get wild as everone runs to safety but the more likely sanctuary will be GOLD.

this could be the worst experiment of order out of chaos

and i would urge anyone who has the flexibility to GET OUT OF THE UNITED STATES AND TRY TO FIND A JOB ABROAD

or invest in bailbonds or jails because the civil unrest coming has the potential to be devestating



posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 11:10 PM
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Originally posted by Pjotr



Foppezao
And the funny thing is, as the ECB pumps more and more money, the stocks keep falling cause the speculators know something is really wrong then..still good they do it though..


The question is: Is this really a good idea?
An economist(Duinhoven) on the news came with the notion that he thinks it is a bad move from the ECB to come up with this money. He says that the hesitation on the financial markets to back up more financing is a normal and healthy attitude. He calls it a natural correction on a too easy spending spree from financers. The last years we finance giant project after project, he says. It has to stop somewhere. The reaction from the ECB is not necessary and it spreads a panic, because every dealer on the market thinks there is something very wrong.

So, if this is true, why would the ECB do it. They aren't nuts, I guess. It can't be that they are doing this to spread panic, is it? Or do they? They say they want to ease the market. Hum, what's your guess?

It seems a bit like an old fashioned Sovjet thing this ECB reaction. A centralist thinking control freak attitude.


I think the ECB thought this thing over more then you, and i and, all the other people in this ATS community.
I think you are dutch so you also saw the news here. This is a bubble of credits.They even said the mother of all bubbles..
This is a crisis that needs Keyenian style tactics, cause the banks cant control it anymore, why would the ECB spend all that money?
I think they would really felt sorry if they didnt...
They have to support, and it is good that we have an institution that provides this help all over Europe.. Latest word on the street says a German bank is about to collapse..
btw a real rebound could take months...

[edit on 10-8-2007 by Foppezao]



posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 11:33 PM
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Somewhere in the next year, I see an opportunity to reap great rewards in selling 'lost' notes purchased in this current downtrend of liquidity and selling when the market returns, after a brief recession of course, and albiet at an inflated real market rate due to radically significant inflation effects on the properties..

Great thing about inflation, ya know? Money will be made to those that can wait it out.


edit-sp

[edit on 10-8-2007 by smirkley]



posted on Aug, 11 2007 @ 01:24 AM
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In truth, there is no need to panic.

Money does grow on trees as well as under the ground. The apple that grows, the mineral extracted, etc, contributes to a nations wealth. 100 years ago, a nation's reserves may only be $100million, but today it would have $1trillion as minerals and other sources are extracted and traded.

Thus, when you see the investments in terms of trillions, they are not fake or just paper. Every penny is backed by a nation's treasury and companies exchange of good and services.

So when the market dips, it is not money that disappears into the air. It is still there, only withdrawn like bank deposits and probably kept at home for a couple of days before fear of being robbed would put the monies back into banks or investments.

Same for globalised fund mgmt groups, they cannot sit on their investors funds and hope to give 140% returns annually. Thus, in time, they will look out for tricks to make retail investors join in the fry in the market to get an obscene amount of returns.

so, no fear, money will and have to return. It is the fund mgmt groups' weakness. In order to win, govts will have to know their weakness and plan accordingly so as to be able to get their funds to enrich their own citizens.



posted on Aug, 11 2007 @ 02:03 AM
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After hearing about the hedge funds, banks, and insurance companies all week, the next shoe to drop may be public awareness of the exposure that pension funds, and college endowments have to the CDO/credit derivitives market. While I know that these types of funds are invested, I'm still not sure to what degree. Some pension funds still haven't recovered from the drubbing they took in the tech stock crash. If these struggling, under-funded entities went chasing higher yields in subprime securities, life could really get ugly for a-lot of retirees.

I see that Jim Cramer's infamous 'Stop Trading' segment was mentioned again. Compare what he said about subprime risk less than a month ago, to what he said last week. Quite a dramatic contrast.

*Please note the lack of hubris*



posted on Aug, 11 2007 @ 09:07 AM
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ahh the credit derivatives

they mushroom during a period of perceived risk and then evaporate when things turn rough

warren buffet calls them "economic weapons of mass destruction" and he is not joking

the derivatives has seen bubble like growth since they mushroomed in 2002 and they haven't stopped since

2002 they're was approximately 1.5 TRILLION in credit derivatives outstanding today there is 35plus TRILLION the entire dervivatives market has seen similiar growth and stand at over 600 Trillion

but lets stick with credit derivatives, Credit derivatives being a NEW PHENOMENA has never been put thru a "stress test" EVER!

Highly leveraged (markets with high levels of debt financing) do not preform well in high intrest enviornments) and as liquidity dry's up and FEAR begin to grip INVESTOR SENTIMENT

the FED and other central banks are trying to co-ordinate a Slower fall in the dollar as well as NOW keep injecting enough billions into the market to prop up investor confidence and keep the credit derivatives 35 trillion dollar pile from evaporating. In respect to 35 trillion in derivatives (credit) the markets are in uncharted territory

and news media should make it a point to do what they do best, and SPIN spin spin to increase investor confidence i.e FED will print the money to keep liquidity or whatever

only problem is investors are used to huge returns and they have been so used to postponing any recessions and passing the buck to the next guy, and de-regulating the market to accomplish this task. That the buck has been passed so many times, and the market has been deregulated to a point that what once was a healthy correction is now LIKELY to be A FULL BLOWN CRISIS and THAT the Buck stops here (so much for spin control)

no question these people no more about the markets than me and maybe they can pull off a hudini like escape, but they would just be passing the buck, there are people who are ready and know what the end result will be, it is a matter of time, and that maybe expiring.

We will see a giant DEFLATIONARY crash in credit along with a large inflationary increase in the Money supply as the fed trys to bail out there big pals like bernanke has promised (for there help in creating these policies)

consumer spending will dry up if foreign creditors look elsewhere, and then the death spiral will begin (domestically) , i'm not sure how much a credit derivatives crash would hurt consumer spending combined with reseting home mortgages but it would likely be solid, however if there is a world wide panic, the falling dollar may be a lower priority for country's holding reserves, and they may decide to continue to support the united states consumer (which may be the lesser of two evils) , in this case spoiled global investors would take the biggest hit along with those who have lots of exposure to the markets as well as those living above there means (, gold would go up (flight to safety) and hedge funds would go belly up. and the middle class may not see as high price inflation, especially those living middle class but out of debt at least initially although the decrease in consumer spending would lead to a good deal of layoffs

but it foreign creditors turn there backs and run the other way and diversify away from the petro dollar like when the russian oil burse opens up (spring 2008) and if the Iranian Oil bourse ever opens, than the NAU and AMERO will become reality domestic Price inflation (cost of goods and living going way up) and i'm sure there would be military action afoot along with civil unrest as well as possibly a global solution in the terms of a CAshless credit society to restore order.

The united states has enjoyed such a high perch because of the agreement made w/ opec to price oil in dollars, this CAN'T BE UNDERESTIMATED, alot of the wars we get into were at least partially because of the threat to stop using the "petro dollar" to buy Oil, this agreement with opec produced terrific demand for dollars and allowed us to export inflation and basically asians and opec country's have funded the american consumer for the last couple decades. Cheney is a shmuck and a jerk but he knows that a fight against iran and then russia and anyone else who threatens to buy oil outside of petro dollars will prove necessary to keep the the united states citizens in such a privilaged postition as we have gotten used to it.

THe order after WWII with the united states at the top is facing it's most severe threat and it is indirectly related to the economic global crisis which started from the u.s housing debacle. this housing debacle leaves alot of our creditors holding sub prime mortagage backed assets and effectively giving them( foreign nations) the push they need to buy oil in non dollar currency's. Depending on who the elite famililies have decided to fund, after the upcoming battle (which i believe is very likely within a year) between nations not limited 2 but will include Russia (u.s "missile defense" located right on russia's doorstep, Iran, and the United states as well as probably isreal

the NWO will be the order out of the coming chaos and will likely not BE ONE PARTICULAR COUNTRY as a super power but instead A ONE world Gov't funded by the royal families

also something to keep a close eye on is the unfolding food crisis which has been planned by monsanto as well as the co-operation of special intrests inside the USDA and there co-operation with Delta pineland corp. (which was acquired last year by monsanto)

kissinger once said control the oil and you can control continents control food and you control people, this is a huge threat people. and this maybe what is needed to get people's attention as well as there compliance with the New One world Gov't.

in 1999 monsanto (financed by rockafellar) had an announcement saying it would move forward without the terminator seed technology) because of the global outcry. in reality the USDA and delta pineland kept funding the reserch and moving on like nothing had changed). you see monsanto needed to say this like a two steps forward one step back maneuver.

they knew that once the delta pineland subsidiaries spread throughout argentina, brazil, north america, and global that the giant GMO monsanto crops would give them such leverage that when they acquired delta pineland in 2006 and countries were already dependent on monsanto and GMO crops that the terminator or GURTS seed technology could be implemented more quitely and without less choice now that country's were all-ready too dependent on monsanto.

Now off to relax in the pool and then work out .

i am surprised how easy it is for me to get back to fantasy land knowing we are at a pivotal point in history

[edit on 11-8-2007 by cpdaman]

[edit on 11-8-2007 by cpdaman]

[edit on 11-8-2007 by cpdaman]

[edit on 11-8-2007 by cpdaman]



posted on Aug, 11 2007 @ 09:16 AM
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What I always find crazy is that these vast figures only exist in a virtual world.
The actual money - hard currency - does not exist except in the minds of the bankers and brokers. Take away all the computers tracking all of this and this virtual money would just disappear into the ether.
Feeding Billions of dollars more virtual money - backed by what? - into an already unstable system isn't going to cure it either.

Oh how I wish we could all create vast sums out of thin air like the banks do



posted on Aug, 11 2007 @ 10:52 AM
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Actually, hard currencies do exits. It's only that it is chasing after 'projections' of returns. An investor parts with his money only because he sees projected figures that a company will make $xxxbillions at a specific/unspecific time.

Similarly too are creditors. They based their companies' income on 'projected' interest earnings.

And the current crisis is a case of 'projected' earnings which will not materialise anytime or in the near or far future due to the no brainer of high risk borrowers' natural tendercy to default on loans.

But make no mistake, every dollar in the stock exchange is real, whether in a buy or sell option.

Most fund mgmt groups would have escaped the market dip safely and parked in blue chip stocks. The only ones that are hurt now are the retail investors, the mom & pop variety, and smaller fund mgmt groups such as district type collective union funds.

And fund mgmt groups are only waiting for the next big thing, and if not, are already priming the market for the next fall.

US Government bonds are a good option now, and probably where many fund mgmt groups are parking in. The treasury should be flushed with cash.

US is an unique country, made of people who respect the law, are generous, resiliant and intelliently hardworking, at least most of them, as compared to other nations. It matters not who is leading the govt, for leaders come and go. Who matters are really the small guys - american people. With its huge diverse population, each giving $100 monthly within a few years, will have the ability to pay off the national debt a few times over, if it so desired. Thus, investor's confidence in USA will never wane, no matter who is in charge.

Thus, no matter who attempts to cripple the american economy, be it China pulling out its funds, etc, it will never be meet with full success. Snap of fingers and the american people will pour into the coffers their $$ out of national pride and a strong sense of belief in the stars and stripes.

Unlike for example, China, which has a higher population, equally hardworking, but rule of law is still in its infancy, something which will make investors think twice with Chinese govt bonds.





[edit on 11-8-2007 by SeekerofTruth102]



posted on Aug, 11 2007 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by Foppezao
Latest word on the street says a German bank is about to collapse..


Yeah, i've heard about that.

if that happens,
the flood gates will be open.



posted on Aug, 11 2007 @ 11:35 AM
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The Dow Jones Stoxx 600 Index dropped 2.5 percent to 362.77, a five-month low. The measure has fallen 9.4 percent since reaching a 6 1/2-year high on June 1


YIKES!!!



``It's a bit of a can of worms that has been opened,'' said Toby Nangle, who helps manage $37 billion in assets at Baring Asset Management in London. ``We are not quite sure where it will end. We might see a major economic impact.''



posted on Aug, 11 2007 @ 01:30 PM
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yes the puppet masters are scrambling

as the puppets are scrambling to find a way to combat any threats to the petro-dollar

if the consumer in the u.s tanks the U.S still could be very powerful and wield a lot of influence but uncle sam would probably be the main employer domestically and it wouldn't be pretty for the masses who live here

the missle defense system that the united states wants to set up in poland is to knock down any kind of retaliation attempt after a u.s led pre-emptive attack on russia

follow the pattern

iraq threatens to sell oil in euro's we go to war with them
venezuela tries and we attempt to knock off chavez but fail
iran threatens oil bourse and we are getting ready to bomb them but we have no idea if said oil bourse will ever take off
Russia is set to open oil bourse in the spring and we set up missle defense system in there "backyard"

if iran or russia open a oil bourse that trades in currency other than dollars WE WILL ATTACK and most people may be surprised to know that the ability for a country to run such a large trade deficit and national debt and have consumers who don't save and spend more than anyone else is a result of the PETRO DOLLAR and the policy's that are required to support it, and they are not pretty.

i wonder how many people would be against war if they realize there standard of living in the united states may depend on it. Now that is a moral dilemma many would be willing to bury there heads in the sand rather than think about.

sorry i know the majority of this was slightly off topic

[edit on 11-8-2007 by cpdaman]



posted on Aug, 11 2007 @ 06:59 PM
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i am starting to realize that a fed rate cut wont do squat for the people stuck in the homes but ready investors with cash will have a GREAT BUYING opportunity ON CDO's and RMB's and will make a killing.

i think the bigger problem the Possible fed rate cut will have is besides provide a great buying opportunity for some investors it will shake the dollar and give those country's looking to diversify elsewhere the push to do so in a more co-ordinated way, albeit silently. this will cause inflation to rise for you and me, some investors will make a killing, markets may stabalize with lower rates but this is no guarantee and the housing sectors and hedge funds will likely continue to falter althoug there are plans to monetize securities by the fed thru fannie mae which i don't have enough knowledge to figure out what the final result will be from that (although it is a big question mark to most)

two other things consumers will realize with the lost equity from their homes that they have less net worth but also that the higher resetting bills they have are quite real. consumer spending slowing will lead to a recession buy itself, this will lead to unemployment from lack of business.

lastly if japan raises intrest rates than that will be bad news for the u.s economy and the yen carry trade, although if they don't they may find inflation creeping not so subtly into the greatest national saving's in a long time. i am skeptical of who runs the BOJ and wether they are looking for their citizens best intrests. but i am also skeptical of most articles economists write due to there own agenda's like the one peter schiff wrote about inflation around the corner in japan but who knows.

[edit on 11-8-2007 by cpdaman]



posted on Aug, 11 2007 @ 11:51 PM
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one thing for sure... the rich will continue to get richer and the rest of us... well you know how the adage goes....



posted on Aug, 12 2007 @ 09:46 AM
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Goldman's Global Alpha Falls 26% in 2007





Aug. 10 (Bloomberg) -- Goldman Sachs Group Inc.'s $8 billion Global Alpha hedge fund has fallen 26 percent so far this year, a decline that may prompt more investors to withdraw their money, according to people familiar with the fund.

Goldman's largest hedge fund, managed by Mark Carhart and Raymond Iwanowsk, has dropped almost 40 percent since July 31, 2006, said the people, who declined to be named because the fund is private. The Standard & Poor's 500 Index of the biggest U.S. stocks has returned 16 percent during the same period.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


www.bloomberg.com...



posted on Aug, 12 2007 @ 12:23 PM
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there will be a steady stream of bad news from banks and hedge funds for as long as ARM's keep re-setting and defaults increase

the investor psychology will be turning even more negative and the u.s markets will be in need of *a large distraction * or they will perish, even with a rate cut nothing will stop the housing collapse and the bad news from it, although a rate cut will help out those who have money and want to buy bottoms.

look for international tentions to rise as a falling dollar held by other nations will increase there inflation more but they will likely keep financing us because they are dependent on the buck, although if the economy literally tanks , then they will panic, and flee the dollar. this would be something i can't see the united states allowing happen without a fight of some sort

international tensions will be rising sans a united states depression because of the building alliances between china and russia and the shanghai cooperation organization and their search for oil reserves/supply to meet their growing needs and the inherent competition with the united states in doing so. also saudi arabia is strengthening its relationship with China and to a lesser extend india possibly signaling a changing of their foreign policy




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