French Bank freezes US funds;Stocks Plunge on Rising Credit Anxiety

Originally posted by uberarcanist
I'm failing to see how this is not just a panic.

Perhaps. But when central banks start to panic (they don't usually) and inject emergency liquidity infusions into the economy, maybe it's time to re-evaluate your understanding of the situation.

There's a credit crunch underway... I believe that we will pull through eventually (I hope) but not without some serious damage this time.
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[edit on 8/9/2007 by Gools]

Uh oh.... where's the paper bag? I'm finding myself hyperventilating after reading over the posts in this thread.
Thanks all for your clarifications for those of us who would rather get a tooth extraction than try to interpret financial news reports that usually leave us scratching our heads saying HUH? What did they just say?
At any rate, this stuff is scary so I plan on keeping a close eye on this thread just to get a clearer perspective on the REAL state of our economy now.

Well, Gools, it could be a heck of a lot worse. Say, were you an adult in the early 80s?

We americans has not faced yet what is coming our way when the power of the dollar will stop supporting our standards of living.

It seems that with everything that is happening in the markets for months has not hit everybody yet that think America still hold the bull by the horns.

Sorry, but right now China will dictate interest rates not US, that is why the federal bank is not doing anything.

Uncle Sam, Your Banker Will See You Now

www.economyincrisis.org...

Originally posted by Gools
Ok!

Well before this turns into yet another Muaddib grind them into the ground with off topic semantics until everybody gives up "special"... :shk: [back on topic please].

Excuse me?...

I was not the one cheering that a depression might happen, and that I could live happily knowing American families will suffer.

If it offended you that i responded to the post of another member who apparently will love it if Americans suffer due to a depression, then just turn a blind eye to my post, since first of all it wasn't directed at you, and second of all I stayed on topic since another member made that remark in this thread...

Originally posted by uberarcanist
Well, Gools, it could be a heck of a lot worse. Say, were you an adult in the early 80s?

If your question is related to my memory of double digit interest rates, $800 gold, stagflation and wage and price controls (Trudeau's 6&5 program here in Canada) yeah I recall the early 80's and my first jobs. My personal opinion... it will get much worse this time - especially by 2009.
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I'm checking my doom and gloom meter on what you just said -- and well... where's that paper bag.

hey good topic we need many more here like this at ATS

the global financial system is obviously shaken and no body has control of this thing

sure there are PPT's that are able to give the market a silent nudge here and a silent nudge over here, which is also what Cramer was asking for during his rant (in addition to the rate cut) for the fed (who sets monetary policy) for united states , NOT THE FEDERAL GOV'T . but the privately owned international globalist bankers of the Federal reserve bank.

Look for the FED to use Fannie Mae to moneterize the mortgage backed security's crapola IN SECRET this will provide a FLoor to the falling prices and increase lenders leverage and confidence, this will give housing a "softer hard landing" and eliminate some of the panic

i don't think a rate cut is coming, it would hurt the dollar so much, during a time that other countries are growing impatient with there growing pile of reserve's which are losing purchasing power, but then again who knows what kind of co-ordination there is among the central banks of the world.

the BIS the central bank of central banks in it's 77'th annual report calls for country's with high deficit's to be those who imploy monetary tightening policy's i.e increase intrest rates (guess who has a high trade deficit)? although i'm sure they have flexibility in there plans, but like i said they will use fannie mae to monetize mortgage debt in the form of a bailout to give the housing industry a floor to stand on.

the unpredicatability is the biggest problem and threat to the markets and the PPT's (plunge protection teams) are fit to only apply band-aids and a few stiches to economic cuts, they can't orchestrate major surgery, but what would happen(if things were to get really bad) i.e think 10% drop in markets within hours of opening; is likely a closing of trading until excess volitility is dealt with in some kind of manner. this happened in india earlier this decade but never on a global scale

the Global derivatives Market has grown to over 600 trillion dollars from less than 80 trillion in 2000. this is what warren buffet refers to as economic "weapons of mass destruction" this derivatives market which is very complicated btw is the result of massive de-regulation of the markets and basically people being elected to fixed short terms looking for ways to get re-elected and post pone the natural recessions because these short but healthy down turns would fatally end there re-election plans so what we have is a large build up of contagion and a high degree of unpredicatability thru the post-poning of small healthy recession and passing the buck to the next guy who needs to manuvere a bit more than the last (create more bubbles) with help from the fed.

this housing bubble may be where the buck stops, but nobody knows

but as long as the usa has the petro dollar they may be in at least better shape than those that understand the treasury secretary (emperor) paulson is wearing NO CLOTHES, when he says the economy is healthy understand.

because in times of panic they ( other nations may cling to the dollar) and continue to support and finance us like they have for two decades plus

p.s it's my b-day today 3 more minutes to enjoy it





[edit on 9-8-2007 by cpdaman]

Originally posted by Gools
[But when central banks start to panic (they don't usually)

I don't see any panic yet. If the Fed was panicking, the would have cut interest rates and infused hundreds of billions dollars into the banking system. What happened yesterday is not unusual at all.

I'm not saying that this couldn't turn into something major, but so far it's not. Let's see what happens over the next few days/weeks.

I just think some of us are spoiled on the unrealistically good economy of the late 90s that will probably never be coming back. The situation we're in right now is actually relatively good from a historical standpoint...we just can't expect everyone to be eating caviar and drinking champagne 24/7/365.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

As they saying goes... it's just business, nothing personal.

Well, exactly, since Europeans and some others are apparently so eager and happy to see Americans suffer, we should just demand all former debt from every country the U.S. has helped to be repaid.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
I place maybe 60% of the blame of this current (potential) financial crisis on "American families." (Maybe 60% is low)

Perhaps, but is that an excuse to feel happy about Americans suffering if a depression really does happen? I think not.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Yeah, I know, everyone wants to blame the deceptive mortgages. But if that was the root of the problem, we wouldn't be seeing lenders who focus on average-or-better credit reporting late payments.

And you don't think Europeans do the same?

How many Europeans have a vacation home appart from an apartment or house in the city where they work?

Do a search on google "european vacation homes" and you will se what I am talking about, and that trend is not new.

My family in Spain owned/own a summer home, which they would invite my mother and me to visit on summers, and they weren't/aren't rich either.


[edit on 9-8-2007 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib

Excuse me?...

I was not the one cheering that a depression might happen, and that I could live happily knowing American families will suffer.

Dude, that is a bit harsh and you know it. That comment you are referring to was taken WAY out of context. FACT - we did this to ourselves with our capitalistic, and greedy ways. I am NOT saying Capitalism is a bad thing, but unchecked it can bring out the worst habbits in people - our current financial crisis is a perfect example of this. I happen to work for a mortgage broker, who THANK GOD makes its bread and butter on standard 30 year fixed mortgages, not the risky sub prime market. THAT being said, despite the evil greedy banks and shady mortgage brokers out there, people need to be more responsible with their funds. I believe Skeptic made an excellent point about this earlier in the thread - better than I could have for sure!

Originally posted by Muaddib
If it offended you that i responded to the post of another member who apparently will love it if Americans suffer due to a depression, then just turn a blind eye to my post, since first of all it wasn't directed at you, and second of all I stayed on topic since another member made that remark in this thread...

You immediately jumped on a comment (and you do this in a lot of threads, god knows you have done it to me), while it may have been a bit harsh, had an underlying truth -no one is going to "love it" if we suffer a depression as this will most definately affect the rest of the world, but dammit we made this happen ourselves. We were the ones who decided to live beyond our means. We were the ones who decided to ramp up our debt to falsely make it look as though we were recovering economically. We were the ones who elected (in some peoples opinion...) complete jerkoffs that lowered taxes during one of the biggest spending periods of our nations history. All at the same time squandering a chance to really be a shining beacon in this world (directly after 911) by thumbing our nose to the world and decided to pursue the agenda of a bunch of wrinkled, crusty old aholes (present administration).

Springer,

I have to disagree with who deserves the majority of the blame. No doubt folks trying to keep up with the Joneses, believing that property value never goes down, and then getting a house they could barely afford deserve a share of the blame, but there are alot of other factors contributing IMHO.

Many people with decent credit decided they wanted to be mini-Trumps, and jumped into an already overheated market driving prices up and pricing many middle income people out of middle income houses .Homebuilders then proceded to overbuild, many reporting new starts(can't have The Street unhappy) even after the market started to slow down driving property value down due to oversupply. When they had to make the decision of paying the note on the investment property that they were upside down on or the house they live in, well that's a no brainer to me.

Combine the above with lenders willing to loan money to anyone with a pulse and a paycheck, followed by packaging and securitization of said loans into CDOs that get spread around the world, and you have this perfect storm that seems to be happening now.

I think 60% blame is a little hard on the American family that's all. There's plenty of blame and players to go around to say that any one is the most responsible is being a little fecisious. I hope that the market can work this out without too much govt intervention but I think we may be beyond that now.

On a personal note by the time my wife and I were secure enough in our finances to by our house in '05 I was already priced out of the County/State I lived in. So we crossed the Chatahoochee into 'Bama and saved quite a bit while only adding 10 or so miles to our commute. We qualified for around $150K and took a loan for slightly less than $80k. We'd lived in a 1 bedroom apartment for 3yrs and after yearly lease raises we ended up paying slightly more than $100 more a month for our house than that tiny appartment.

BREAKING NEWS: Markets go red

BREAKING NEWS: MARKETS GO RED

yes i agree the Fed and lenders should have better things to do than co-ordinate an effort to manipulate and influence the public into taking such risks.

granted people should be smarter, but hey they weren't and alot of people that earned a decent salary were effected as well.

anyhow look for the fed to intervine by privately moneterizing the housings sub prime backed sequrities thru fannie mae and providing a floor for them to stand on (bids)

and keep an eye on the asian markets 2 nite they could have an upside down party although i don't think the SSE is in a "bubble"



[edit on 9-8-2007 by cpdaman]

Originally posted by djohnsto77
If the Fed was panicking, the would have cut interest rates and infused hundreds of billions dollars into the banking system. What happened yesterday is not unusual at all.

I think that the feds are in a panic state and without a clue what to do next, after all China has made it clear that U.S. interest rates depend on China, not on the Federal Reserve.

Interesting that they are bold enough to hint that.

when I started seeing seeing houses, many of them flipped, going from 30, 000 to 100,000 I knew something was wrong. I saw a lot of families here, lived generations lose their homes to equity loan scams, and the same companies then flipped the property to 3 times the value. I saw real estate appraisers , boost their appraisals, sold to another family that could barely make payments. When its being sold, they say a lot to purchasers so itwill sell. My heart goes to all those folx who bought, and tried and lost. They were doomed from the gitgo. Had the same homes been assessedat true value, like 30 to 50 % less than they are now, they could have afforded it. You cannot blame American Families, or Canadian Families, any familY, as a whole, like was said above, by the CEO, because that is our dream to own our own home, nothing fancy, just that little place with a picket fence like mom and dad used to. Whats wrong with that!
The Gov Bailed out Chrysler..It bailed out the crooked savings and loans banks..what, the American Family can't even get a 3 month or something so people can catch up..Do they Have to be evicted.? and then the cycle continue?Moritorium on these debts The Gov and Those Bankers and Hedge Funds, subprime lenders (everyname except crook)all new what was going on. Heck, go back to posts in here going years, and people knew something was up. Why is everyone scratching their heads.


The Families,Thats who I feel bad for..those people..same people day in day out get their mailboxes crammed by "Free"credit card offers by the same banks doing this stuff knowing well that the are risks after doing Credit checks before sending them out!.. Its a disgrace! its a world wide Disgrace! not just here. I don't say more because because I am on a public forum But don't blame Us..The American Family, we're the ones getting reamed after working honestly all our lives. Go out on the street if you don't believe me, I have everyday .walk the neighborhoods..We are getting robbed! How dare anyone blames us. Demand some justice from those Empty suits in Washington and those Robber Barons at the IMF. heck they print their own bills we can't.

unless you are someone who lost their home.
don't clip one snippet from my statements to make some point because its all a whole and I didn't come here to Debate or engage in Socretian or aristetolian logic..


If you havent't already start doing what jimbo99 said, cutback lifestyle, ipods, switch light bulbs, cancle your membership in those golf clubs, (remember that commercial it so true)get a used Ford or Buickcar instead of that lexus or Toyota. You can fight back,adapt,just don't expect higher wages next year to meet your debts as the norm ,as nothing is normal anymore. Start talking to your neighbors more because you are going to need them.



God Save us All



SyS

Yes, China's been saber rattling but all in all it means nothing.

There's an old saying something like "if you owe the bank $1000 then you fear the bank, but if you owe the bank $1,000,000 than the bank fears you" or something like that.

If the U.S. economy falters, China will be the hardest hit.

Just like markets have "corrections", don't societies have them also?
People over-extend themselves, a few million of them file for bank-
ruptcy, move to a smaller place and start accumulating assets/bills
again. In essence, society just went through a correction.

Since this forum is so full of hysterical predictions that come and
go without materializing, I'm not convinced that this financial
challenge is a big deal at all to the overall economy. Noone is
jumping out of buildings, our restaurants, entertainment venues,
ballgames, airports, cruise lines, etc.. are brimming to capacity
with jolly souls day after day... So who the heck is having their
life ruined by this so called "crisis"? Perhaps it's just in certain
sections of the country? All is well here in Chicago. -cwm

Yeah, I'll second that cwm...the only ones hurting are those who have made poor choices...but how is that different than any other day?