Enough is enough (Science vs Religion)

Originally posted by thestatue
your not getting the point major natural is God created the earth supernatural is this big bang evolution non sense.....they also are new very very new well from my point of view at least. nine thousand years ago no one thought they would be accused of being decended from an animal and it baffles me that you think cause someone calls something proof it must be proof there is no proof of evolution.there is plenty of evidence for God its just to wide spread there are modern day miracles that defy the faux-science all together God is the god of science he made all things including those rules man just kinda made new ones so man could be better comforted and find a way to gain control.the faux-science you may follow is flawed and just helps it's self but inventing new ways for itself to be validated God doesnt change.poeple have all kind of problems with God but he doesnt change.if someone has a major problem with science they can just make a new theory.i'm sorry but i can only believe in something that makes the same sense it did ten thousand years ago.some new mojo hojo theroized faux science would require a tremendous amount of faith and strength to try and believe in something like it

Rrrrrriiiiiiiiigggggggghhhhhhhhttttttttttio then. Did I state my views? Other than saying that I think both sides are wrong? Don't breath words into my umm fingers.
But I would like to add Christianity or even Judism has not been around since the begining of humanity. And if you really wanna get down to the nitty gritty my friend I would like to ask you have you heard of Zoroastorism (I know I misspelled that) or the Atun?

And to state my views so that you people can stop putting words in my mouth.
My beliefs are as such.

1) Science is a religion since it is a set of beliefs and seeing as every atheist wants soooo badly to make everyone one of them and will comit a simular type of browbeating that the religious types will. And science like religion places alot of creedence on our "specialness" (much less than religion I know). I will not be going deeper than that because I could write an essay and quite frankly it wouldn't be enough. That and I'm lazy.

2) Organised Religion exists for one reason. Power. To control the masses by saying if you dont do as they say you are damned forever in the afterlife.

3) I do not believe we can completely understand everything. Case in point can you truely rap your brain around the meaning of eternity? I can't.
And you can't drag the universe into a laboratory and all a theory is IS A GUESS and educated guess but still a guess. I find it funny we sit here on Earth come up with all this BS that we think we know about other galaxies and phenomina out there without ever getting near them. I place no faith in humanity as we have not lived up to half the claims of greatness we make about ourselves.

It's late and I can go deeper but as I said above I am lazy, so feel free to rip apart what little I have typed to make yourself feel better and debase me in your heads. Good eve.

Sorry Wraoth, I'm a much better speaker than typer. But, yeah, I believe that right and wrong are subjective. I also think that we know more about religion and science than you're giving us credit for. At least more than we did a thousand years ago.

The debate between religion and science doesn't need to stop, the way we debate needs to change. We need to think exactly the way you indicated in your first post.

We are young children in a giant's garden

We need to put our egos aside and assume we are wrong. But that's easier said than done, I guess.

Originally posted by Rev_Godslapper
Sorry Wraoth, I'm a much better speaker than typer. But, yeah, I believe that right and wrong are subjective. I also think that we know more about religion and science than you're giving us credit for. At least more than we did a thousand years ago.

The debate between religion and science doesn't need to stop, the way we debate needs to change. We need to think exactly the way you indicated in your first post.

We are young children in a giant's garden

We need to put our egos aside and assume we are wrong. But that's easier said than done, I guess.

Wow, I've never heard it put as eloquently. Thanks GodSlapper! I wholeheartedly agree!

Originally posted by Quazga

Originally posted by Rev_Godslapper
Sorry Wraoth, I'm a much better speaker than typer. But, yeah, I believe that right and wrong are subjective. I also think that we know more about .

Wow, I've never heard it put as eloquently. Thanks GodSlapper! I wholeheartedly agree!

Ummm he was agreeing with what I said.

Originally posted by WraothAscendant

Originally posted by Quazga

Originally posted by Rev_Godslapper
Sorry Wraoth, I'm a much better speaker than typer. But, yeah, I believe that right and wrong are subjective. I also think that we know more about .

Wow, I've never heard it put as eloquently. Thanks GodSlapper! I wholeheartedly agree!

Ummm he was agreeing with what I said.

Sorry about that. I was actually referring to his quote later in his paragraph.

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
Science is not a religion.

Sorry MajorMalfunction ... but for many people Science IS a religion. The persuit of fact ... the worship of science .... ALL religions are cults and for many science is a cult.

That's because science is real. It is a fact. Religion is a belief.

Oh man .... Evolution MAY be real, or it may not be. It's a theory.
Religious beliefs ARE many times real. There are beliefs and theory and false leads and reality in both science AND religion.

Trying to say that science isn't a religion to some based on those reasons gets kinda soupy ... ya' know?


I still think Einstein got it right ... one without the other is blind and/or lame. Science AND religion both get myopic ...

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Sorry MajorMalfunction ... but for many people Science IS a religion. The persuit of fact ... the worship of science .... ALL religions are cults and for many science is a cult.

science can't be a religion, it is fundamentally different from a religion in that it is not dogmatic. things change in science as we gather more data.

Oh man ....

Evolution MAY be real, or it may not be. It's a theory.

no, evolution is real according to all the evidence we have gathered... which is quite a boatload.

Religious beliefs ARE many times real. There are beliefs and theory and false leads and reality in both science AND religion.

but only science admits them...
religion never seems to have made a mistake...

Trying to say that science isn't a religion to some based on those reasons gets kinda soupy ... ya' know?

I still think Einstein got it right ... one without the other is blind and/or lame. Science AND religion both get myopic ...

what's odd is that einstein was completely non-religious...

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."
-Einstein in a letter to an atheist

religion is blindness... that's the problem. it's an inherent denial of the facts and an egocentric, geocentric, imposition of your personal belief on the whole of the universe.

I will respond to your claims in order.

1) science can't be a religion, it is fundamentally different from a religion in that it is not dogmatic. things change in science as we gather more data.

a) Its a set of beliefs. A theory is a guess. Educated guess but still a guess.
b) It is also VERY dogmatic. Try disagreeing with accepted theories and see what they do. Here is the definition of Dogma to help you out.
something held as an established opinion; especially : a definite authoritative tenet
c) Religion changes as well. Otherwise would there not be just one religion or denomination?

2)no, evolution is real according to all the evidence we have gathered... which is quite a boatload.

a) No actually the fossil record is incomplete (as I think is only logical if you think about it) and there are ALOT of holes, along with some human mistakes etc. Just talk to a creationist nut and he will have some pearls of truth to throw at you with all the fuzzy logic and propaganda.

3) but only science admits them...
religion never seems to have made a mistake...

a) Science admits them MY BUTT. They will disregard whatever stands to disagree with what they are wanting to see, look at the whole when human civilization formed stuff. They are now finding VERY ancient cities when there shouldn't be any. That one near India is an example.

4)what's odd is that einstein was completely non-religious...
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."
-Einstein in a letter to an atheist
religion is blindness... that's the problem. it's an inherent denial of the facts and an egocentric, geocentric, imposition of your personal belief on the whole of the universe.

a) Einstein says he does not believe in a PERSONAL GOD. (Christianity, Islam Etc) If he did not believe in any god dontcha think he would say just that?
b) Bullishly following ANY set of beliefs is blindness. One must always be willing to admit that could have been wrong in what they accepted as fact in the past and BOTH sides are guilty of not doing such.
c) Egocentricity is not purely a religious trait. Look at the debate on extraterristrial life. Some scienctists would have it that life is only to be found here and that mankind is alone and top of the heap of all life.
d) By sticking to a belief/theory/whatever you are imposing your personal belief on the whole of the universe. Simply due to the fact you are saying "This is how it is." with your belief in it.