San Diego Firefighters Forced To Attend Gay Pride Parade

Originally posted by Griff
I mentioned the KKK because they are straight white males (and females).

And you just happen to know this little tidbit of information how....???

You could have chosen any number of groups to make your point, yet you chose the KKK. Your tactic was transparent.

Originally posted by jsobecky
And I give you credit for defending these "celebrants" that exposed their genitals to the crowd during...what was it you call it... a social event.

So far the whole "exposing the genitals" is hearsay. Unless they can provide some proof...via arrests made. Plain and simple.

Originally posted by jsobecky
And you just happen to know this little tidbit of information how....???

Since they are against ANYONE who isn't straight and white, then what is your point?

You could have chosen any number of groups to make your point, yet you chose the KKK. Your tactic was transparent.

Tactic? Name another "group" of straight white males that do congregate in public and I'll change my post to reflect that.

BTW, why so defensive? I have already said that if this is true, then the firemen have a case.

Originally posted by jsobecky
No, it's not social. Just illegal, as has been established already.

.

i missed that....can you show me again please?
thank you

it's illegal to do what your boss tells you?

what exactly about this mess is illegal?

Originally posted by Griff
BTW, why so defensive? I have already said that if this is true, then the firemen have a case.

cause he feels as the fireman do.'
need to defend people with the same ideals/beliefs...
thats my guess anyway..

Just don't shove it down some else's throat, or force them to "celebrate" the sexual choices you have made.

Which may well turn out to be the crux of the matter after all the BS is cut through.

While I wont make assumptions about what your boundaries are in respect to out gay lifestyles, I've tended to find people who say this really mean "I expect you to go out of your way to keep any aspect of your llifestyle hidden from me at all times because I don't like you and my sensitivities are more important than yours. But hey if you say you're gay I'll accept that. Aren't I enlightened.

I've seen girls giving their boyfriends blowjobs in public places, parks motorways, pubs, alleys at least half a dozen times in the past five years. Should I be railing about the evils of hetrosexuality or just be adult about it, shrug and move on. Yet we live in an age where a man giving his boyfreind a kiss on the cheek is deemed offensive and rubbing it in peoples faces. The gay agenda?....not half as agressive as the straight one.

Originally posted by ubermunche
I've tended to find people who say this really mean "I expect you to go out of your way to keep any aspect of your llifestyle hidden from me at all times because I don't like you and my sensitivities are more important than yours. But hey if you say you're gay I'll accept that. Aren't I enlightened.

^^i agree with you here...better to toss out cryptic like messages though lest we be called out...just saying, i feel as you do.

The gay agenda?....not half as agressive as the straight one.

agreed with that last part too.
i've seen some serious pda stuff too.
when it is hetero or even girl on girl, hey, it's ok..it don't effect anyones delicate feelings...even the loving husbands and fathers....
let it be a couple dudes though, and it creeps them out.
imo, this says far more about the people that are creeped out vs the homosexuals...

people have such little tolerence for things that are different and they try to justify and convince themselves they are correct.

Originally posted by Griff
BTW, why so defensive? I have already said that if this is true, then the firemen have a case.

Don't try the defensive angle with me. It's another transparent tactic.

Originally posted by Boondock78
it's illegal to do what your boss tells you?

what exactly about this mess is illegal?

It's illegal for public servants to perform political campaigning functions while on taxpayer time. The firefighters were left with a Hobson's choice: attend or be suspended.

Originally posted by Boondock78

Originally posted by Griff
BTW, why so defensive? I have already said that if this is true, then the firemen have a case.

cause he feels as the fireman do.'
need to defend people with the same ideals/beliefs...
thats my guess anyway..

Yeah, and your guess is not worth the bandwidth it ate up to print it on my screen.

I don't have to defend myself at all, now do I? Nice try at a pretty lame tactic, however.

Originally posted by ubermunche
While I wont make assumptions about what your boundaries are in respect to out gay lifestyles, I've tended to find people who say this really mean "I expect you to go out of your way to keep any aspect of your llifestyle hidden from me at all times because I don't like you and my sensitivities are more important than yours. But hey if you say you're gay I'll accept that. Aren't I enlightened.

Oh, really? That's what you've "tended to find", is it? Well, hell, why didn't you say so before - that makes you an expert on the subject and on my motives.

I've seen girls giving their boyfriends blowjobs in public places, parks motorways, pubs, alleys at least half a dozen times in the past five years. Should I be railing about the evils of hetrosexuality or just be adult about it, shrug and move on. Yet we live in an age where a man giving his boyfreind a kiss on the cheek is deemed offensive and rubbing it in peoples faces. The gay agenda?....not half as agressive as the straight one.

If your boss told you to attend one of these lovefests or else face suspension, I'd say you had a pretty good case of sexual harassment going for you.

But people are ignoring that basic fact. I can't say I blame them, since their position is untenable. They'd rather resort to name calling, insinuation, association, and other sidetrack maneuvers than face the fact that gays are not universally accepted, and will never be. Forcing the issue only tends to make their case weaker and their opponents more stubborn.

Originally posted by Boondock78
I still say they are bigot, homophobes..
it's an honest question.....also, attending a march as directed by your boss is totally different than 'hanging out' with them or 'having a drink' with them.

For starters. I have never attended the gay pride parade in San Fran despite having lived here for almost all of my life. Nor do I have plans to do so in the future. Also, if my boss came and said all of the Transport Specialist RN's needed to march in the parade I would say no. Does that make me homophobic and a bigot? Fraid not.

How is it any different in this case. This seems to be a typical tactic in these types of cases. The fireman were not on board with the agenda so lets slap some lables on them: *homophobic* SLAP, *Bigot* SLAP

SLAP SLAP SLAP SLAP SLAP No sence in obscuring things with reality and logic when we can keep SLAPPING stuff on them eh?

What if the chief orders them to march in the NAMBLA parade? Or a clan rally, or the Black Panthers? Or Americans for Al Quada? would it still be okay?

Originally posted by jsobecky
face the fact that gays are not universally accepted, and will never be. Forcing the issue only tends to make their case weaker and their opponents more stubborn.

Who's the one being transparent here. All I'll say. BTW, you got nerve. To sit there and argue with someone who has said they agree with you takes balls.

Originally posted by jsobecky
It's illegal for public servants to perform political campaigning functions while on taxpayer time. The firefighters were left with a Hobson's choice: attend or be suspended.

^^^was this a political campaign function? i missed that part too. or, are you just guessing/,aking it up to fit your agenda


If your boss told you to attend one of these lovefests or else face suspension, I'd say you had a pretty good case of sexual harassment going for you.

^^^there you go again...true colors coming out? it was not a love fest, it was a march....silly head

all your little cryptic type paragraphs reveal much about you my friend...thats cool though.

that said, does anyone have a link or something that describes this as a political function?
i thought it was a march.

whats the ratio here btw?
all the people defending the fireman, are you opposed to homosexuality?
to the ones saying what they did was bs, are you comfortable with the fact that some people are homosexual?

i am a hetero, married man but i am comfortable with the fact that there are homosexual people...
anyone else?

i just want to know the real reasons behind supporting the fireman.
so far, i have heard that it is illegal, it was a political agenda, the city had low resources, etc etc...
imo, those are but excuses

Originally posted by FredT

For starters. I have never attended the gay pride parade in San Fran despite having lived here for almost all of my life.

^^^want a medal? whats your point?

Also, if my boss came and said all of the Transport Specialist RN's needed to march in the parade I would say no. Does that make me homophobic and a bigot? Fraid not.

^^no it does not...when you start to cry and are so nervous about being seen there, then THAT makes you a homophobe, IMO..when fire and dead bodies don't phase you but gay people do, that makes you a homophobe, IMO.
also, how often are nurses required/asked to attend these marches? fireman are asked/requested to ALL THE TIME.
this is no different than them making an appearence at the paddy's day parade.....being in attendence does not equal support.


The fireman were not on board with the agenda so lets slap some lables on them: *homophobic* SLAP, *Bigot* SLAP

^^^they were not only not on board, they are alleging sexual harassment charges and complaing to the paper that they have never been so nervous before....they are loving husbands and fathers after all....also, *homophobes*...SLAP

Originally posted by FredT
Does that make me homophobic and a bigot? Fraid not.

No.

What if the chief orders them to march in the NAMBLA parade? Or a clan rally, or the Black Panthers? Or Americans for Al Quada? would it still be okay?

No different as I've said before. I'd like to know why they felt their jobs were at stake. Why didn't they complain to her superior before the parade? Why did they attend at all? Etc. etc. It just seems to me (and this is definately speculation) that they wanted to be able to sue.

[edit on 8/10/2007 by Griff]

Originally posted by Griff
Who's the one being transparent here. All I'll say.

i will say more...it is VERY clear IMO how he feels towards homosexuals but he types his sentences in a cryptic way as not to be called out.

why can't people just be honest and say how they really feel?

Originally posted by Griff
Why didn't they complain to her superior before the parade? Why did they attend at all? Etc. etc. It just seems to me (and this is definately speculation) that they wanted to be able to sue.

speculation on my part too. i think it was not a problem till maybe their buds in the firehouse started to crack jokes or something and it hurt their widdle feelings.
AND, hey, they might get paid

too correct myself, from the first article, the fireman did not say nervous. he said this.

"I've dealt with finding bodies in burning buildings, traffic accidents with kids, but I've never been so stressed out before until this incident,"

^^speaks volumes IMO

Ghiotto and three other firefighters filed a sexual harassment complaint against the city's fire department last week after being forced to attend the parade in uniform

^^i'd like to know how they were forced for one and for two, if they were out of uniform, would they feel different? hmmmmmmmmmmm

The four men allege they were ordered by a battalion chief to attend last month's parade and feared consequences for failure to do so, since refusing to follow a direct order constitutes disciplinary action.

^^what kind of action? a swift talking too. a write up? what?
these guys sound like some real creampuffs....

If the men refused to follow the direct order, they could have been suspended on the spot and stripped of any chance for a promotion, according to their manual

^^^hmmmmmm. i wonder why they could face suspension for not doing it? probably cause since the batallian boss told them to go, it was their JOB to go...

“You could not even look at the crowd without getting some type of sexual gesture,” Ghiotto said in the complaint. “The experience left me feeling humiliated, embarrassed and offended by this event.”

^^^what does this tell you?

This has to do with people in the workplace being threatened, sexually harassed, and forced to participate in a parade that isn’t like other parades

^^so if it was a different kind of parade it would be cool then?
seems awfuly homophobic to me...

“I was forced into a situation that would compromise what I hold true and what I believe in, my reputation, my character, my integrity, my morals, and my religion,"

^^^if he was not so homophobic, maybe he wouldn't feel this way....doing what his boss told him to do threatens his integrity and his character?? L O L

“By participating in this parade wearing the uniform, the perception is clear that they support this type of parade and that is not what they want to convey to their community, their wives and children and their churches."

^^^SLAP*phobia.......




edit* in the complaint, the boxes were checked off that he was harassed cause of his sex, and his sexual orientation..
hows that?
they were discriminated against cause they were hetero males?





[edit on 10-8-2007 by Boondock78]

Wait a minute: If the Fire Dept. is being used in a parade of any type and the Dept. has to come up with so many firemen to make the Dept. look good and represent itself the way that the Commander wants it to, then the paid firemen must do the parade despite the theme.

The theme is not the issue, if the Fire Dept. has a policy of using its employees for goodwill and other reasons, parades and such, then the employees have an obligation to show up and do their jobs, which happens to include public retaions work. If they are getting paid then they have no reasson to gripe abouit where they are physically located; the job requires it.

This is NOT A POLITICAL matter, as many here have alleged; it is NOT. it is a fact that gays have legal rights and that they cannot excluded from the list of those allowed to have the majestic prescence of the firemen denied them due to the firemens personal prejudices and beliefs.

The firemen could refuse to parade for any group they did not personally like, right? Where does it stop? the whole program would be useless if individual firemen could opt out of duty for simply disagreeing with the theme of the parade. No, better to insist that they attend and earn their paychecks.

Personal feelings should be left at home.

Originally posted by eyewitness86

The theme is not the issue,

^^it's only an issue to the fireman...i bolded where they said as much in my post above yours....they were to stressed to attend a march of that 'type'

This is NOT A POLITICAL matter

^^^correct...don't know why people ignore this matter. guess it makes their points more valid when they can make this stuff up.


No, better to insist that they attend and earn their paychecks.

Personal feelings should be left at home.

^^^bravo to the last two lines...totally agree

I'd like to know. Say I am at my jobsite and someone (anyone) cat called me or "shown me their genitals", how is it possible to turn that around and say my employer made me be sexually harrassed? Just because my employer told me to be there? It's not like the commander was showing her genitals and cat calling them.

And furthermore, if it upset them so bad, why not have the individuals arrested for public lewdness? Or is it that it really didn't happen and these gentlemen think they have a case to make some money. Total speculation there.

[edit on 8/10/2007 by Griff]

i am reading the comlaint now..the first paragraph says
"i also told him i felt uncomfortable and would not attend unless given an order"

-looks like he was given an order-

"the off going crew was joking with us about having to participate"

"chad came to work on an overtime basis and the first thing he heard from the off going crew was -looks like you'll do anything for money-"

^^it is sounding more and more like they were too thin skinned to handle the jokes from their peers.

"chad allison and i were in the kitchen cleaning up, when the cheif came up and told me that we were supposed to be at the parade grounds at 9:30. i asked the cheif if he was giving me and my crew a direct order to attend and he said, YES"

^^^direct order...whats the problem

then it goes on under the guise of them being humiliated and embarrased and the integrity of the profesion was destroyed...

whining ass babies