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Originally posted by RedEyes
Presumably this is the exact reason that most firefighters signed up, not to attend rallies which promote something that goes against their beliefs? I am not religious and don't care what people get up to in their private lives, but these firefighters do seem to be religious and doing what they were asked to do goes against THEIR beliefs.
This is starting to sound like an attack and it really isn't, but aren't you the narrow minded one for not being empathetic enough to understand the views and concerns of others?
Originally posted by JIMC5499
Personally I would have asked for the order in writing and then I would have declined and filed a complaint with my union if there were any reprecussions.
Originally posted by marg6043
Enlightened Js? they are playing the game quite well actually, they are the forced victims of a lesbian power
They forced themselves on attending so they can have now a thread like this one to support their views of how sick society is when they force good Christian men and women into the depravity of attending a gay and lesbian parade.
Originally posted by Griff
If the men refused to follow the direct order, they could have been suspended on the spot and stripped of any chance for a promotion, according to their manual, Ghiotto said. It was Ghiotto's first direct order.
This is supposition from the firemen. Nowhere did I read that the comander said if they didn't, she'd strip them of a chance for promotion.
Originally posted by jsobecky
Wrong. That would have put them into the position of defending themselves, instead of putting the focus where it belongs - on the supervisor.
Originally posted by Griff
No. It would have put the focus on the supervisor.
But then, it's so much easier and more fun to appear "enlightened" and to mock the "Homophobic firefighters", isn't it?
No. It's easier to recognize that these guys were ordered (so they say) to do their job and not whine about it.
Originally posted by RedEyes
Presumably this is the exact reason that most firefighters signed up, not to attend rallies which promote something that goes against their beliefs? I am not religious and don't care what people get up to in their private lives, but these firefighters do seem to be religious and doing what they were asked to do goes against THEIR beliefs.
Originally posted by Griff
I understand where you are comming from. But, if it was part of their duty, then it was part of their duty.
Originally posted by Griff
Or do you believe that a Muslim that works at 7/11 has the right to refuse to sell tobacco because it is against their belief? I bet alot of you that are saying it was against the firefighters beliefs are the same people who said the exact opposite in the thread about muslims refusing to sell tobacco because of their beliefs.
[/quote]
No I don't. A similar incident to what you describe happened in the UK not so long ago. A pharmacist refused to sell a customer the morning after pill as it was against her beliefs. I do not believe that this lady had the right to refuse to sell the morning after pill either.
Originally posted by Griff
Furthermore, it is against my belief system to not work at all. Do you think that would work if I sued my superior because they make me do things against my belief system?
We are not taking about silly beliefs like that Griff even though i'm with you 100% We are talking about their religious beliefs. I am not religious but I do understand how some people are deeply religious and their religious beliefs take priority in their lives - not that I agree, but I understand.
Originally posted by Griff
But, when your views and concerns stop you from doing your job, then it might be time to look for other employment.
Again, agreed. If they signed up to the service knowing that they were expected to attend these types of functions then they should shut up and get on with it. I am unsure if firefighters are required to attend these events though.
Originally posted by dgtempe
The narrowmindness comes from homophobia, paranoia and the inability to be tolerant to those who are "different" in society.
Originally posted by dgtempe
I would march for any good cause whether i was involved personally or not. In fact, i was the top money raiser for AIDS and received all kinds of praises. I didnt care about the praises, i just wanted to raise money to help those less fortunate and suffering.
Originally posted by dgtempe
A few hours at a gathering is not going to cause you everlasting grief and harm and post traumatic stress syndrome, for heavens sakes.
Originally posted by dgtempe
BE OPEN MINDED and realize there are all kinds of people in this world
Originally posted by dgtempe
If my job tells me i have to walk up and down the streets with a sign saying "support Bush" i would have to do it, unless, i quit. they pay you to do whatever it is they want.
And YES, firefighters are at most public functions, beleive it or not.
"I've dealt with finding bodies in burning buildings, traffic accidents with kids, but I've never been so stressed out before until this incident," Ghiotto told FOXNews.com in an exclusive interview.
If my job tells me i have to walk up and down the streets with a sign saying "support Bush" i would have to do it, unless, i quit. they pay you to do whatever it is they want.
Originally posted by jsobecky
Read the passage again. Key in on the words according to their manual.
Which is where the entire focus of the discussion should be. She acted illegally by making them attend a gay pride rally in support of gays. They did nothing wrong.
In other words, she promoted a political agenda using city personnel while they were on duty. That is illegal.
Their job does not include promoting a political agenda while on the job.
The order to attend was illegal.
Originally posted by RedEyes
No I don't. A similar incident to what you describe happened in the UK not so long ago. A pharmacist refused to sell a customer the morning after pill as it was against her beliefs. I do not believe that this lady had the right to refuse to sell the morning after pill either.
We are talking about their religious beliefs. I am not religious but I do understand how some people are deeply religious and their religious beliefs take priority in their lives - not that I agree, but I understand.
I am unsure if firefighters are required to attend these events though.
Ghiotto and three other firefighters filed a sexual harassment complaint against the city's fire department last week after being forced to attend the parade in uniform despite objections they made to superiors.
Originally posted by dgtempe
If my job tells me i have to walk up and down the streets with a sign saying "support Bush" i would have to do it, unless, i quit. they pay you to do whatever it is they want.
And YES, firefighters are at most public functions, beleive it or not.
Originally posted by Griff
Originally posted by RedEyes
No I don't. A similar incident to what you describe happened in the UK not so long ago. A pharmacist refused to sell a customer the morning after pill as it was against her beliefs. I do not believe that this lady had the right to refuse to sell the morning after pill either.
We are talking about their religious beliefs. I am not religious but I do understand how some people are deeply religious and their religious beliefs take priority in their lives - not that I agree, but I understand.
Why do these 2 statements seem to be conflicting?
In the first case, you believe the pharmacist's belief system was in the wrong, but in this instance someone's belief system is in the right? I'm confuzzled on this.
Originally posted by jsobecky
Their job does not include promoting a political agenda while on the job.
Originally posted by discomfit
I don't think that word means what you think it means. They were ordered to attend the meeting, they were not forced.
[edit on 8-8-2007 by discomfit]