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A few questions I have(towards Atheists)

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posted on Aug, 11 2007 @ 08:06 AM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by janasstar
I have noticed that although the Christians are getting the rap for being the bad guys, they have done none of the mud slinging here.


you've only been on ATS for a few days, just look through the forum's history and you'll see that the atheist population is very downtrodden by insults and flames.


I have looked in all these Christian/Atheist forums and about the only time I have ever seen flames shot at the non-believers side is when we are shot with such hatred and insults that some have lost sight of moral principles. And that's easy enough done. For some reason, non-believers think that believers are supposed to automatically become perfect. But let me tell you, it becomes harder than ever. We're still human, capable of error. We're just conscious that we have an Advocate (Jesus) with the Father, Who pleads our case with Him, when we do slip up and sin. When Jesus was on earth, He suffered all the temptations known to man, for 40 days. So He knows what it is like to fall into temptation in the flesh and how hard it is to resist. Everything Jesus did while He was here, was for a reason.
So, no, Christians aren't perfect. And no, they don't go around smugly thinking, "I can sin anytime I want to, 'cos God will forgive me!" We know the terrible price that was paid for our salvation, and the price was way too high and much too personal, to take it that lightly. Our Lord was murdered, for this to happen for us.




posted on Aug, 11 2007 @ 08:56 AM
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Originally posted by janasstar
I have looked in all these Christian/Atheist forums and about the only time I have ever seen flames shot at the non-believers side is when we are shot with such hatred and insults that some have lost sight of moral principles.


really? there's an entire thread that's devoted to telling atheists that all their good deeds are pointless without faith in god. there are overly-paranoid tales coming from the christian side of an "anti-christian conspiracy"

cite me a single example of an atheist attacking A CHRISTIAN without basis to do so in a manner that is pure hatred, and i'll believe you.
the last time i checked we attacked christianity quite a bit, but we tend not to single out people... except for circumstances like pat robertson, ted haggard, jerry fallwell, kent hovind, and other merchants of hatred.



And that's easy enough done. For some reason, non-believers think that believers are supposed to automatically become perfect.


quite the opposite, we actually tend to think your faith is a fairly large flaw.



posted on Aug, 11 2007 @ 12:29 PM
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Actually, People in general are not perfect, and there is no reason to attempt to make them that way. That's Jesus Message. Don't throw stones, take the log out of your own eye before taking the splinter from your brothers. Let people worship they way they want. Love your neighbor.. not "Change thy neighbor"

He said this again and again and again, but evidently no one listened.



posted on Aug, 11 2007 @ 04:19 PM
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'really? there's an entire thread that's devoted to telling atheists that all their good deeds are pointless without faith in god. there are overly-paranoid tales coming from the christian side of an "anti-christian conspiracy"
I have not seen this post. My apologies. But I don't see any flames of hatred in that statement.


"the last time i checked we attacked christianity quite a bit, but we tend not to single out people... except for circumstances like pat robertson, ted haggard, jerry fallwell, kent hovind, and other merchants of hatred.'
As far as Jerry Fallwell goes; I'll help you throw flames at him! He's full of flames and venom! I do not see the love of God in him. I pray for him, that if he really is of God, that he will get on the right track. I haven't listened to Pat Robertson enough to form an opinion. Never heard of Ted Haggard or Kent Hovind. I am truly sorry that these people have offended you in the name of the Lord.



posted on Aug, 11 2007 @ 04:21 PM
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"really? there's an entire thread that's devoted to telling atheists that all their good deeds are pointless without faith in god. there are overly-paranoid tales coming from the christian side of an "anti-christian conspiracy"


I have not seen this post. My apologies. But I don't see any flames of hatred in that statement.


"the last time i checked we attacked christianity quite a bit, but we tend not to single out people... except for circumstances like pat robertson, ted haggard, jerry fallwell, kent hovind, and other merchants of hatred."


As far as Jerry Fallwell goes; I'll help you throw flames at him! He's full of flames and venom! I do not see the love of God in him. I pray for him, that if he really is of God, that he will get on the right track. I haven't listened to Pat Robertson enough to form an opinion. Never heard of Ted Haggard or Kent Hovind. I am truly sorry that these people have offended you in the name of the Lord.



[edit on 08/11/2007 by janasstar]



posted on Aug, 11 2007 @ 06:29 PM
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Has anyone considered that in european and western cultures, it is alright to be an athiest and to attack Christianity - or other religions? However, I don't think you will find athiests speaking up in Muslim dominated countries - mostly beause they would be immediately killed for blasepheming. The "final solution" for athiests speaking against a radical militant religion is death.



posted on Aug, 11 2007 @ 09:11 PM
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Hi everyone. I have read tons but never posted any replies until this topic came up questioning atheists.

I have no facts, no figures, no proof and if I did it could all be denied or countered by other facts, figures or proof that exist I am sure.

What I do offer is an opinion of religion or non-religion, whatever your choice.

I love the articles and talk on this website. Dealing with the vastness of the universe to the government conspiracies around the world, the articles are great to read and they all make me think differently so as to not be so mainstream in my ideas and opinions.

The universe is vast from as far as I can tell. We don't know why we are here. We have no idea what to do or what our position in the grand scheme of things is, if such a thing even exists.

Can there be a God or are we a roll of the evolutionary dice? If god exists, can and would he condemn you for a life that did no include him? If so, why? You are a thinking, living thing that has the option of choosing its own way in life. Why would he hold that against you? I would think that that is exactly what he wanted you to do. Why would he want worship? Service? If he existed, he wouldn't require them would he?

On the other hand, what if god is real? What if he has a grand plan and every living thing in the universe was involved in that plan? What if he created it all? What if he did create us in his image? What if Jesus is his son? What if you are going to hell for not believeing ?

All hard questions for sure.

I like to believe there is a god. Something that started it all. Sure, there is always the question of who created him, but that makes my head hurt. I believe god set this all in motion, but, I also believe we evolved. I believe god started it all and that we are a results after billions of years. I believe he had NO idea we would be the exact out come. Call us an experiment if you want. I like the comfort of being able to say, "God, please help me through this day." I makes me feel like I always have someone watching over me, especially in the darkest times of my life. I don't believe god needs organized religion, money, faith or sacrifice. He may not be alive anymore for all I know.

I had a friend, who is agnostic, as me once:

How would you like to be a devout religous person, giving you entire life to the service of god, Allah...etc.......and upon your death, find that there was nothing?

On the other hand, what if you lived a fast, loose and excessive life, enjoyed every pleasure and sin there was to offer, and upon your death find yourself sitting before god being judged for such a life?


I am sure there are all kinds of versions of this little question, but, this one is the one I use.


My answer to the above questions: Its your life. Live it your way. You are a responsible, reasoning, breathing, living thing and your choices are yours. As long as you lived how you wanted to live, why would you ever worry about the above questions?


(This does not take in to account people who live there lives by breaking the laws of their countries. Whether you like it or not, those laws were made by man. They are written and enforced. They do exist and although you may question there validity, you do have to obey them or suffer the consequences.)
(Also, this does not take into account someones upbringing, poverty, riches, bad parents......and so on. Again, these are all things that man has created in my opinion and therefore are arguable only as a topic dealing with mans inadequecies.)
(My opinion, I think god lets the two things said above exist because we are a grand experiment of his and we evolved over billions of years to state we are in now. He just does not interfere.)



posted on Aug, 11 2007 @ 10:24 PM
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“[Why] do we have a lot of Atheists who try to bring Christianity down?” The answer to that is to ask the question another way: “We do we have a lot of Christians who try to bring Atheists down?” In predominantly Christian nations, especially the US, Christians, in spite of the separation of church and state, want written into our Constitution laws that support our religion and diminish others. As seems to be true of religious extremists of any religion, Christians want everyone to believe exactly as they do. They insist, with no basis in fact, as the Pope just recently has done, that theirs’ is the only “true” religion. Of course, his assertion applies to Atheism, perhaps especially so.

I’m no Atheist, but a practicing Catholic. I think I do, however, see the problem as a pretty basic one. It’s sort of an apple and orange thing. Atheists seek the truth and truth can only be achieved through concrete, objective FACTS. They must KNOW the truth. Religionists also seek the truth, but believe that spiritual truth can’t be found in facts, but in faith. They must BELIEVE in the truth. Knowing and believing are two totally different things. One seeks objective truth through facts, the other seeks spiritual truth through faith. This clearly is an apples and oranges argument.

Unfortunately, spiritual truth is solipsistic: it’s only true if one believes it. This truth is open to authority and tradition, both of which are subject to manipulation for political gain. On the other hand, objective truth is limited: it’s only true of things which can be factually verified. This truth can’t deal with spiritual, subjective reality by any of the means it uses to find truth, and so can’t fully and finally claim to have the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

So, in the words of the mortal Rodney King: “Why can’t we all just get along.”



posted on Aug, 11 2007 @ 10:51 PM
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Personally, I have found that the percentage of Atheists who look down on others for believing is actually rather high. It's as if they feel they have a corner on the knowledge market.

The funny thing is, if you are a true atheist, then you should also have found a good reason as to why religions exist.

Really, why do religions exist?

Here is where Atheism becomes a belief system all of its own. I say this because every Atheist I have asked this question of answers it in a unique way.

Except for those who I call true Atheists. I use this term to describe those who have analyzed their own "psyche" and the collective "psyche" as much as they have religions, and came to the same conclusion.

Not only that the belief in a God is erroneous, but also that the belief in Self is erroneous. That the subjective experience of self is, nothing more than a composite convergent flux of stimulus and responses that could all possibly be explained by any number of deterministic theories. And thus personal ambition and desire is nothing more than vestigal , and sometimes current, behaviors of the ego as a means of continued survival. Just like every other portion of the body and mind.

And true atheists also realize that at in the primitive mind, ego can throw such a tantrum in it's attempt to survive that it misses opportunities to work as a collective towards that basic primal desire of survival. It is because of this that psychological and emotional love emerges in the human brain and nervous system. It is also because of this that, in more complex psyches, culture develops, (which includes relgion). The rituals of a religion form the heartbeat of early cultures, as they stimulate a sense of normality during somewhat crazy cultural conditions.

The Atheist of today is justified because this collective ego has gotten to the same point as the individual ego did so long ago, and it is indeed Religion itself (as a collective ego) that requires checking, (as it did 2000-3000 years ago). The Axial age has ran it's course and served it's purpose. And now it is time for the next step in this deterministic and gradual evolution towards a better moustrap of survival.



posted on Aug, 11 2007 @ 11:29 PM
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Originally posted by janasstar


I have looked in all these Christian/Atheist forums and about the only time I have ever seen flames shot at the non-believers side is when we are shot with such hatred and insults that some have lost sight of moral principles. And that's easy enough done. For some reason, non-believers think that believers are supposed to automatically become perfect. But let me tell you, it becomes harder than ever. We're still human, capable of error. We're just conscious that we have an Advocate (Jesus) with the Father, Who pleads our case with Him, when we do slip up and sin. When Jesus was on earth, He suffered all the temptations known to man, for 40 days. So He knows what it is like to fall into temptation in the flesh and how hard it is to resist. Everything Jesus did while He was here, was for a reason.
So, no, Christians aren't perfect. And no, they don't go around smugly thinking, "I can sin anytime I want to, 'cos God will forgive me!" We know the terrible price that was paid for our salvation, and the price was way too high and much too personal, to take it that lightly. Our Lord was murdered, for this to happen for us.


i'm not going to comment on atheism, as i'm not an atheist, and those that are have spoken plainly and in most cases rationally without venom. however i would like to comment on this idea that the christian god had to sacrifice his son because humans are so vile with "sin". the belief that yahweh(however that's spelled) created humans in his image pretty much negates sin. saying i've given you all free will to do with as you please, and then turning around and saying "but not this this this or this or you'll be punished for longer than the universe has or will exist" is plainly psychotic. only a madman would think in these kind of absolutes and hypocrocies. this is one of the many reasons why i turned to a different religion and have no sympathy for those christians who think they're being persecuted.

although i'd like to think i've never attacked another member of this board or another person in my day to day life for believing as they do. of course some people, probably janasstar among them, will take the previous paragraph as just that. sad really that we can't share our ideas on religion without being labeled as "attacking". but such is the nature of religion i suppose



posted on Aug, 12 2007 @ 12:37 AM
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A map


just start zoomin


riddle me this:

why belive in god when you can belive in this



posted on Aug, 12 2007 @ 12:47 AM
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Originally posted by zerbot565
A map


just start zoomin


riddle me this:

why belive in god when you can belive in this





This reminds me of one of the mystical interpretations of "His eye is on the Sparrow". It is said within Hermetic circles, that there is no size in the mind of God, for there is no ultimate perspective from which size, a relative term, can be deduced.

Nice site...



posted on Aug, 12 2007 @ 01:02 AM
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hehe ,

well id rather belive that shivas dancing then that jahwe made it ,


i mean in the old days we lived on flatland with the sky as a dome and that was it . that was the "whole".

, even thou there where persons that had the facts that this was not the case ,

i mean isent it a bit hypocritical to start bending the " religious truth" so that it holds water in days.



posted on Aug, 12 2007 @ 02:33 AM
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If the shoe doesn't fit you, then please don't wear it. If you haven't bashed or attacked anyone, then obviously, no one is talking about you. I have had statements from atheists and agnostics that were very fair-minded and were not in the least, "attacking." When are people going to read the entirety of my statements and quit picking out just a few short phrases that they can zero in on.



posted on Aug, 12 2007 @ 03:11 AM
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Originally posted by zerbot565
hehe ,

well id rather belive that shivas dancing then that jahwe made it ,


i mean in the old days we lived on flatland with the sky as a dome and that was it . that was the "whole".

, even thou there where persons that had the facts that this was not the case ,

i mean isent it a bit hypocritical to start bending the " religious truth" so that it holds water in days.





Shiva will do the dance of destruction at the end of time so his father Brahma can sleep. And when this time comes all the souls in this material world who wasted there time will be trapped in void until Brahma wakes up again to meditate upon creation so that the souls can have another chance to return to godhead.
Not all is as it seems in this world ..... we just think it is.

[edit on 12-8-2007 by plague]



posted on Aug, 12 2007 @ 03:29 AM
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Originally posted by janasstar
Our Lord was murdered, for this to happen for us.


Technically, he committed suicide. He just had someone else do the deed.



posted on Aug, 12 2007 @ 06:37 AM
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I just came across some stunning revelation knowledge. I posted it on another forum, but felt it needed repeating. Many Christians have asked, "Why do the atheists persecute the Christians and not the other religions?" I figured it out! It's because we have the "turn the other cheek" teaching. So, people feel relatively safe.
One thing that should be kept in mind; a person only has two cheeks, after that, it's every man for himself. :-))



posted on Aug, 12 2007 @ 12:45 PM
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Technically you have four cheeks.

Either way, the only reason Atheist's go after christian's is because in the western world Christianity is by far the largest religion in that region, and by far the most persecuting group to atheists.

I'm sure atheists in India attack Hindu.



posted on Aug, 12 2007 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by WolfofWar
Either way, the only reason Atheist's go after christian's is because in the western world Christianity is by far the largest religion in that region, and by far the most persecuting group to atheists.


well, we don't attack CHRISTIANS, but we tend to go after christianity and christian belief for that reason.



I'm sure atheists in India attack Hindu.


indeed they do. there is a quite well known indian skeptic (whose name i believe) that happens to be an atheist and regullarly questions hinduism.



posted on Aug, 12 2007 @ 08:39 PM
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I just came in yesterday.

Please I apologize for any harm any of my Christian Brothers or Sisters has caused you. Please forgive us this wrong.


Please accept my apology,
Connie




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