It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

A few questions I have(towards Atheists)

page: 4
3
<< 1  2  3    5  6  7 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 09:13 AM
link   

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
kacou



When you are done with this one in disproving it, the other two will crumble also because they related to one another.


You think it is that organized?

Christianity is a off shoot of Judiasm, so one would have to start there, however, Christians and Muslims think their religious thought was introduced by new prophets and new revelations.

[edit on 8-8-2007 by Stormdancer777]

This is my thoughts about why atheism is trying to disprove Christianity.
For me any way it make since has Christianity is the largest of all religion.
Why would they go after Judaism when they count for 0.2% of the world population when they can strike one blow at the biggest one.
What I have try to say there is that Atheist is just after the monopole of religion. They want to be a new religion base on science and clock work.

kacou




posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 09:16 AM
link   

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
Why have those brought up Christian fallen away?

Then why are followers of Islam are so dedicated to their faith even though it is much stricter then modern Christian beliefs?

Maybe the Christians aren't ramming the throats as much as you think?

I wonder what will replace it?


I think they are, but they are fighting a losing battle in many regards. Many christians stink of hypocrisy, and I'm sure this has a lot to do with people falling away from their faith. The lies and deception required to keep people within a strict literalism - I'm focusing on the US here.

In europe, christianity has lost much of its power and is more a past-time than in most other places (e.g., about 10% go to church regularly in the UK). Whereas, in the US, it is still grasping for power at the micro (within communities) and macro (in politics) levels. So, for me, I don't have it rammed down my throat, just a minor irritant.

Thus, take a recent example. The Pullman films based on the His Dark Materials trilogy is being made with only euphemistic references to religious authority in fear of losing US box office takings. If it was purely from a european POV, I'm sure it wouldn't be an issue. For instance, a few christians may get noughty about the Jerry Springer Opera business in the UK, but essentially, no-one really cares here. Relgious authority still has power and influence, still has a big input into the moral compass of the US, and the people push this through peer influence. Interestingly, even though religions have all this power, it helps them not - as society is no more moral in the US than elsewhere in the developed world. It's a self-sustaining process, I think.

Thus, religion is still a big issue in the US. Why? Who knows. The US is one of the few developed countries still grasping to religious faith in droves. Religious authority has power in the US. Same for most muslim-orientated countries - islam needs a real reformation, break the power of the authorities, give women more power, I'm sure that will help. They need a process of european style enlightenment. They used to be the foremost intellectuals, until religion strangled the life out of freethinkers.

Another aspect, I feel, is that in Europe, social welfare is essentially provided by the state. We have good universal health-care, good welfare for the unemployed and needy. In the US, much of this is provided by religious organisations, or not at all. So, at a community level religions still have a social impact. This is why Bush has been pushing for more faith-orientated social care - save a drug addict through a group of the faithful, and you have a good chance of creating a new believer.

What will replace relgion? I think some people are basically 'magical thinkers', so we see the old superstitions being replaced by new-age stuff - crystals, homeopathy, and other woo.

All my opinion, of course.

[edit on 8-8-2007 by melatonin]



posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 09:32 AM
link   
And thoughtful opinions they are, melatonin, I cannot argue with any of it.

I too believe mankind is wired to believe in the supernatural,if it aint one thing it will be another, I would find it hard to imagine other religions as powerful as the ones that came out of the middle east.

It was the aliens ya know


[edit on 8-8-2007 by Stormdancer777]



posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 09:35 AM
link   
>Why would they go after Judaism when they count for 0.2% of the world population when they can strike one blow at the biggest one.

Well disproving the jewish god would solve the whole thing, since it is the Jewish god that started the whole thing


It wouldn't work however.




[edit on 8-8-2007 by Stormdancer777]

[edit on 8-8-2007 by Stormdancer777]



posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 09:37 AM
link   

Originally posted by Equinox99

I'm sorry. . .have I met you before? By saying "You" I hope you do not mean
me. I respect everyones beliefs, because everyone is entitled to their own
beliefs. If you can point out one of my paragraphs and show me where I
was ever attacking anyone I will apologize and move on. You can't blame
a whole religion because of some peoples mistakes. That is like saying
Islam is a religion of terrorism because there some suicide bombers.

I give everyone a chance, and that is what separates me from you.
I do not judge a whole religion based on past experiences, or some
flaws in their people.




hmm im kind of disapointed in this statement man...

figured somone open minded would not think ALL christians must be that way.... sure there are extremists out there... but not EVERYONE has to be VIOLENT and CONCIETED to have faith in a god... or believe in the bible...

the people who live their life by the bible 100% seem to not get the whole idea of the religion...

like a movie said...
its not supposed to be a rule book... its just supposed to give you a good idea...

I read the bible... i am christian ... i do not feel you are right... or i am right...

i dont kno whow to explain it... but i am christian but religion doesnt make somone beter or worse than somone... it just means they have a different set of beliefs.. u kinda know what i mean?

~back on topic...

yes ive notced this especially in my home town... all the athiests here HATE christianity and clearly display that in their life....


honestly u guys


CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?

(sorry guys im tired if this post doesnt make sense U2U me... ill change it when i wake up.. had a long night.. )



posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 09:56 AM
link   
Oh, another thought cramming anti religious rhetoric down a Christians throat, is still cramming,

Isn't this the same as forcing belief in unbelief on the believers, and haven't Millions of Christians been persecuted and killed by atheist regimes in the past?

So maybe a different approach,


Better to find common ground.

So with this is in mind it is not what we believe or if we believe, it is about CONTROL, acceptance and tolerance.


I don't see us giving this up any time soon.

What is about about human nature that seeks to contol one another, why do we worry about who believes what,

It is all tribal, we have evolved this way, it is the survival instinct.

See? WE are still dividing ourselves up into tribes, the athiest clan , the Christian clan , the jewish clan, the skippy clan.

[edit on 8-8-2007 by Stormdancer777]

[edit on 8-8-2007 by Stormdancer777]



posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 10:12 AM
link   
>Why would they go after Judaism when they count for 0.2% of the world population when they can strike one blow at the biggest one.

Why indeed?



posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 11:09 AM
link   
its pretty simple actually. christians are always pushing they're religion to people who claim to be atheists, and also telling everyone in general that if your not a christian you are WRONG and should be punished. christians are always threatening people that if they don't accept jesus there going to hell for eternity. excuse me but thats pretty harsh. do you really need to be scared into believing something. cause thats the only reason i think you believe



posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 11:10 AM
link   
I'll take a shot at this one!

Where I'm at: Parents both catholic (Mother very catholic), grand parents all catholic 2 work with the church everyday. I went to church for many years (yes when I was in my early teens I was forced to go)

I approached my Mother at age 15 and said that I have learned all I could from the church (I actually could remember each gosple topic and was getting very bored of it all) I told her that I could no longer believe in this religion and I could see in Mothers eye's she was crushed. It was like I told her she was a bad Mother (My Mom was great in my eye's) but I tried so hard to explain why? To be honest I don't think she understood but it did give her explanation as to why.

I saw the use of the church and God to be an excuse. I was always taught to be good person. No a good catholic. So I didn't understand how anyone could blame anything on evil and lack of faith. I'm not going to explain why I think I'm a good person but if you knew me I hope you could see why.

Do I believe in religion (any religion) my answer is no

But, I can say that if you do (and this is what I told my Mother)
Did God not make me this way? If there is a God then she/he must have done this for a reason right? If God created everything then that means the bad with the good. All people/things right?
Do you think "God" will be happy that you tell people they are going to hell for not doing his will? If so then what kind of God is this?

What kind of God requries worship? What kind of God would allow what others do in his/her name?

The only power and savior I look for is within myself. I try to do onto others and try to be good to all people.

I for one do not believe in race, creed or colour becasue the last time I checked strip away the skin and we are all the same.

Sorry for all the questions not looking for answers. I have mine.

Look into yourself, don't look for someone/thing else to do it for you.

Peace



posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 11:25 AM
link   
Hi Equinox,

As an atheist or 'Neo-Atheist' as i like to call myself
, I personally do not put any oter religion down.

However, the main religion i do think about and wonder why or how people can believe in it is Christianity. The reason for this is 'because I was brought up in a family that goes back to christianity'. I suspect this is the reason for most other Atheists that have 'put christianity down'

I personally have more issues with/ about Islam due to the beliefs that a minority of Islamics have and carry out on a day to day basis.

The reasons for my Atheism are

1) My previous beliefs in God never got me anywhere and since being a non believer, have had quite a happy and successful life. I hurt nobody, I don't push beliefs onto anyone and i live to be as happy as possible and making the people around me feel the same.

2) There is not enough proof that any God created us and if he did, that probably means that there is no other life anywhere in the universe

3) The one thing i TRULY believe in is myself and accepting that we as a race do not and probably can not understand the true origins of our perceived reality. Life is most likely a one shot opportunity so why live under the restraints of a religion? Live it how you think you should live it to get the most out of it.... trust me believe in yourself and your own personal power and you are onto a winner.


50/50

EDIT to say SpinDropSmile.. I am totally with you. Didnt read your thread until after i'd posted mine. If everyone was like us the world would be a better place hehe.

[edit on 8-8-2007 by fiftyfifty]



posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 11:31 AM
link   

Originally posted by GurtBFrobe
its pretty simple actually. christians are always pushing they're religion to people who claim to be atheists, and also telling everyone in general that if your not a christian you are WRONG and should be punished. christians are always threatening people that if they don't accept jesus there going to hell for eternity. excuse me but thats pretty harsh. do you really need to be scared into believing something. cause thats the only reason i think you believe


Some churches don't even preach hell anymore.

JW's don't believe in hell.

I cannot remember the last time I was approached by a Christian pushing a doctrine.

Many of the churches are much more open minded now,

Unitarian Universalists have workshops on Wicca and buddhism, they teach Reiki, and Yoga, The Catholic convent here brought Reiki healing technics here from Japan.

Don't lump all Christians in the same catagory.



posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 11:36 AM
link   
Same here! a lot of your points where well stated and I believe the combination of two post will hopefully open some eyes and hearts to humanity and the world in general.

Great post!



posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 11:37 AM
link   

Originally posted by melatonin

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
Why have those brought up Christian fallen away?

I think they are, but they are fighting a losing battle in many regards. Many christians stink of hypocrisy, and I'm sure this has a lot to do with people falling away from their faith. The lies and deception required to keep people within a strict literalism - I'm focusing on the US here.


One of the biggest problems with keeping people within both the Christian and Jewish faiths is that both of them have gotten a lot of mileage out of martyrdom, and that kind of thing just doesn't sell as good as it used to. Man, I remember as a kid I was constantly being told about this or that saint who had his skin torn off or eaten by lions because they refused to renounce their Christianity. These religions were able to keep a good core population because they were able to use that whole "us versus them" mentality to sustain commitment and interest.

But in places like the United States, where they're free to practice their religion in peace, and there's no real drive to suppress them, people just don't get that excited over it, and they tend to drift away. In the U.S., these religions are victims of their own successes. One of the biggest problems facing the U.S. Jewish community is that Jewish men are marrying shiksas outside the faith. And Christian preachers are having to work extra hard these days because their core of beaten-down, poverty-stricken folks in the South has faded away thanks to an improved economy and government support. They have to compete with NASCAR on high-def TV. That's why churches are filled with old people, who went hungry during the Depression and fought in wars.

I guess it all boils down to the fact that traditional and fundamental religion of any stripe does best in hard times, when people are poor, starving, and afraid. Look at radical Islam. The best way to fight any religion is with delicious, inexpensive food, a safe, comfortable home to raise kids, and entertaining television.



posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 11:49 AM
link   
For those who don't know me, I'm an atheist. I was a Christian in my youth, but figured out about age 9 it was hypocritical and full of inconsistencies.

I don't "attack" Christians, I question them, because I don't understand how anyone in this day and age can't see the illogic of religion. I'm seeking to understand how some people can give up religion and live normal happy lives, and some can't.

Furthermore, I live in a nation that has begun to call itself Christian despite the clear separation of church and state in the Constitution. I feel threatened because Christian morality is being shoved down my throat through political machinations -- it's no one's business if gay men want to get married, etc., but it's still made political. Some Christians are trying to get creationism taught in school under the banner of intelligent design -- as an alternative to science which has proof, while creationism has none. It offends me.

If these politically minded Christians would leave their religion in the church and their homes where it belongs and not try and shove it down my throat in public, school and government, then I might not feel so threatened and not stand my ground so hard.

But until the holier-than-thou attitudes of people who try to make their religion the state morality go find something better to do, then I'm going to keep on speaking out against it.

I have some Christian friends, they are the ones who don't judge, don't act like they're better than me, and don't proselytize me. They accept that I don't believe in their sky fairy and that I'm as good as they are, and as ethical as they try to be moral. But the vast majority of Christians I meet -- especially in cyberspace -- are egotistical, judgmental, and self-righteous.

I find it annoying. Somebody has to speak out against this move of a religion to take over our secular state, and until it stops, I will keep speaking out.

Well, at least until they manage to get laws passed to have my tongue pulled out with hot pincers and have the rest of me burned at the stake for heresy.



posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 11:51 AM
link   

Originally posted by Sad Lil Alex

Originally posted by Equinox99

I'm sorry. . .have I met you before? By saying "You" I hope you do not mean
me. I respect everyones beliefs, because everyone is entitled to their own
beliefs. If you can point out one of my paragraphs and show me where I
was ever attacking anyone I will apologize and move on. You can't blame
a whole religion because of some peoples mistakes. That is like saying
Islam is a religion of terrorism because there some suicide bombers.

I give everyone a chance, and that is what separates me from you.
I do not judge a whole religion based on past experiences, or some
flaws in their people.




hmm im kind of disapointed in this statement man...

figured somone open minded would not think ALL christians must be that way.... sure there are extremists out there... but not EVERYONE has to be VIOLENT and CONCIETED to have faith in a god... or believe in the bible...

the people who live their life by the bible 100% seem to not get the whole idea of the religion...

like a movie said...
its not supposed to be a rule book... its just supposed to give you a good idea...

I read the bible... i am christian ... i do not feel you are right... or i am right...

i dont kno whow to explain it... but i am christian but religion doesnt make somone beter or worse than somone... it just means they have a different set of beliefs.. u kinda know what i mean?

~back on topic...

yes ive notced this especially in my home town... all the athiests here HATE christianity and clearly display that in their life....


honestly u guys


CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?

(sorry guys im tired if this post doesnt make sense U2U me... ill change it when i wake up.. had a long night.. )


Honestly I just read your thread and I was basically saying the same thing
you are. You can not judge a whole nation by a fews actions. The US
invaded Iraq for democracy that they did not even want. Should I point
my finger and say all of USA are murderers?
No, because I have met people in the US and like other nations and cultures
they have great people and they have terrible people.

Religion should not have anything to do with liking someone. I have met
Atheists face to face, and I have a couple friends who are atheists. They do not try to put my religion down, even though I am sure their parents probably tried to force a religion down their throats.
That is how the older generation was raised, they had religion forced upon
them and that is what they try to do. This is wrong I admit, but the new
generation of religious believers have a less tendency to do this.

You are an atheist? cool, let us hang out sometime. I won't talk to you about
my religion unless you insisted on knowing. That is how I function, I can not
speak for every person in my religion because people are very different.
But if you try to force religion or try to force atheism then you are not
any better then the religious crusades they used to have.



posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 11:58 AM
link   

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
For those who don't know me, I'm an atheist. I was a Christian in my youth, but figured out about age 9 it was hypocritical and full of inconsistencies.

I don't "attack" Christians, I question them, because I don't understand how anyone in this day and age can't see the illogic of religion. I'm seeking to understand how some people can give up religion and live normal happy lives, and some can't.

Furthermore, I live in a nation that has begun to call itself Christian despite the clear separation of church and state in the Constitution. I feel threatened because Christian morality is being shoved down my throat through political machinations -- it's no one's business if gay men want to get married, etc., but it's still made political. Some Christians are trying to get creationism taught in school under the banner of intelligent design -- as an alternative to science which has proof, while creationism has none. It offends me.

If these politically minded Christians would leave their religion in the church and their homes where it belongs and not try and shove it down my throat in public, school and government, then I might not feel so threatened and not stand my ground so hard.

But until the holier-than-thou attitudes of people who try to make their religion the state morality go find something better to do, then I'm going to keep on speaking out against it.

I have some Christian friends, they are the ones who don't judge, don't act like they're better than me, and don't proselytize me. They accept that I don't believe in their sky fairy and that I'm as good as they are, and as ethical as they try to be moral. But the vast majority of Christians I meet -- especially in cyberspace -- are egotistical, judgmental, and self-righteous.

I find it annoying. Somebody has to speak out against this move of a religion to take over our secular state, and until it stops, I will keep speaking out.

Well, at least until they manage to get laws passed to have my tongue pulled out with hot pincers and have the rest of me burned at the stake for heresy.


I couldn't agree more with you. I will be the first to apologize for this nonsense they are doing. I am not a politician so therefore I can not do anything to help your self being. However If I do see something in such nature I will defend it. We were put here with free will and free will is what we should keep.
But think about this you Atheists trying to cram "there is no God" down our
throats is the same thing as a Christian trying to force his beliefs upon you.
So can I ask you this then? What makes you guys so different from them?



posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 12:12 PM
link   
PLEASE FORGIVE ME, BUT IN MY CASE, THE 'ALL CAPS' IS NOT SHOUTING. I DON'T SEE WELL. THIS HELPS ME. SO PLEASE BEAR WITH ME. I THINK WHERE THE CONFUSION COMES IN IS THAT ALL OF CHRISTIANITY IS BEING CONFUSED WITH RELIGIOUS CULTS, AND CATHOLICISM. THERE IS A TREMENDOUS DIFFERENCE. A TRUE BELIEVER;NOT A "PEW SITTER," WOULD EVER BADGER ANYONE OR THREATEN THEM WITH HELL. THEY WOULD FOLLOW THE LOVE MESSAGE THAT JESUS LEFT FOR US. AND THERE ARE SOME OF US AROUND. I THINK IT'S MAINLY THE 'JEHOVAH WITNESSES' THAT GO AROUND KNOCKING ON DOORS AND INTRUDING. THEY ARE NOT CHRISTIAN, THEY ARE A CULT. THE BAPTISTS AT ONE TIME WERE HEAVY DUTY ON THE 'HELL MESSAGE.' BUT I THINK THEY ARE TRYING TO TONE THAT DOWN, NOW.
IT'S LIKE ANYTHING ELSE. YOU CAN'T JUDGE A WHOLE GROUP BY A FEW BAD APPLES. THERE WILL ALWAYS BE SOME GOOD AND SOME BAD, AS LONG AS THE HUMAN ELEMENT IS INVOLVED. I NOTICED IN ONE POST THAT SOMEONE THOUGHT THAT ALL CHRISTIANS CONFESSED THEIR SINS TO A PRIEST INSTEAD OF GOD. I THINK THAT IS TOTALLY A CATHOLIC THING. AND IT IS AGAINST BIBLE TEACHING. I PRAY TO GOD, IN THE NAME OF JESUS. SO, BELIEVE ME WHEN I SAY THIS; WE'RE NOT ALL MENTALLY ILL, DEMON POSSESSED, HELL BENT-ON-WAR, OUT-TO-GET-YOU, PEOPLE.



posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 12:13 PM
link   
Well I suppose I am atheistic...and it's true that most atheists will focus their attention on Christianity. I would think so because they are living around a significantly higher number of Christians... most of the time (And clearly if they're living in a Christian dominated society.) I don't mind their attacks on Christianity at all. However....what they often fail to realize is that despite some (or many) Christians' 'I'm better than you' attitude, that's typically as far as they will take it. It's not like they are going to chop your head off for being atheist. You ever wonder why there's not too many outspoken atheists in the middle east?



posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 12:15 PM
link   

But think about this you Atheists trying to cram "there is no God" down our throats is the same thing as a Christian trying to force his beliefs upon you. So can I ask you this then? What makes you guys so different from them?


It's slightly different though, Equinox.

Religion is integrated into all kinds of stuff, it's on your money, it's in your oath of allegiance, swearing on religious texts in courts, etc etc. There is pressure to have babies christened, that marriage is a religious insitution, that religion defines morals, whole TV channels providing 24/7 sermons and spouting hateful divisive messages, socio-political pressure to push religious views into schools, supplanting science with religious fantasy, etc etc.

Atheists are a minority in the US. They also suffer negative labelling and prejudice from the vast droves of christians. What do atheists have? A couple of well-spoken advocates who provide logically consistent arguments showing the incoherence of the theistic position. Jeez, there's a study showing that, on average, americans view muslims as more trustworthy than atheists, heh.

ABE: you know, what would happen, do you think, if from tomorrow "there is no god" was placed on money and in the oath of allegiance? That should be fun, heh.

[edit on 8-8-2007 by melatonin]



posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 12:20 PM
link   

Originally posted by melatonin
Atheists are a minority in the US. They also suffer negative labelling and prejudice from the vast droves of christians. What do atheists have? A couple of well-spoken advocates who provide logically consistent arguments showing the incoherence of the theistic position. Jeez, there's a study showing that, on average, americans view muslims as more trustworthy than atheists, heh.


Yeah. You'll never see an admitted atheist elected as President of the U.S. within our lifetimes. There may be some secret atheists who pay lip service to "God Bless America." But none that actually present themselves as atheist. As if somehow the mere belief in God makes one act in a more socially responsible and moral way. We all know how that works.



new topics

top topics



 
3
<< 1  2  3    5  6  7 >>

log in

join