Why Iraqis Fight
1. One of the first acts of the coalition was to abolish the Iraqi Police force. Not only did this set of large scale looting (like what happened
immediately in New Orleans following Katrina when they didn’t have a police force for oh about weeks) but it is caused Iraqi civilians to set up
neighbourhood protection groups. I.e. ordinary people trying to keep their homes safe from burglars, yobs and that sort.
2. A significant portion of the Iraqi people believes in forcing other Iraqis to comply with “Islam” this is common throughout the Arab world.
However under secular-pragmatic thinking Saddam these nuts where executed for conspiracy to cause religious violence, and were efficiently gathered by
the Iraqi secret police.
With this now abolished under the coalition many fundamentalists took the opportunity to try to force other Iraqis to comply with Islam. They’ve
done outrages things like disembowel (most often) Sunni women for “crimes” like wearing Western clothing. Yet the fundamentalists felt confident
especially as can turn to their tribes where they can find at least some support.
3. The secular Iraqis (both Sunni and Shiite) did not like being made (out of fear) to turn up to Mosque 3 or even 5 times a day. They did not like
women having to wear the veil out of fear, they did didn’t like it when people started disappearing for doing nothing wrong other than to follow a
moderately different version of Islam.
4. So they retaliated. You try forcing me to turn up to Mosque? Fine I will (until I blow it up). You kidnap my grandfather for being Sunni, fine
we’ll kidnap one of yours.
5. The Fundamentalists retaliated with further kidnappings and even Mosque bombings.
6. Today in Iraq if you do not join a neighbourhood protection group then that neighbourhood protection group will kick you and your family out of
your house. They say if you cannot as a man help bring protection to your people then you do not deserve the security living with you’re people
7. Peace between different neighbourhood groups is kept by retaliating against the crimes of the other, until some sort of truce-understanding is
formed. At every turn the pawns in this are innocent civilians. The neighbourhood protection groups have become extremely politicised because
obviously they want to retaliate against the fundamentalists, but because the fundamentalists can seek refuge in their tribes (many of whom are often
not fundamentalist) people want to retaliate against the tribe that fundamentalists seek refuge in. It is almost impossible for an individual in one
of these tribes (who does not agree with giving fundamentalists protection) to have this opinion enacted because that puts his life at risk, and
besides they have their own power structures, and it’s immensely difficult to work out which brother of who (the boss?) is actually a
fundamentalist. How do you define who is and isn’t a fundamentalist without not knowing exactly what they’re doing, and even if you do know what
they’re doing how do you express an opinion against these people (who also claim to be protectors) and stay alive? Easy don’t express an
B. Why They Fight Us…
1. One of the first things we did was to kick the Bath party out of power, and to ban anyone who had been a member of the bath party from gaining
employment. This is like banning anyone who was a member of the communist party in Russia from gaining meaningful employment. It didn’t matter if
you agreed with it or not, everyone who was somebody was a member of the Ba’th party, that’s how you get by in a dictatorship.
2. Most of these people are Sunni (because Saddam was Sunni). Yet ironically the Sunnis are the most secular group in Iraq, i.e. almost all do no not
object to women wearing western clothing, drinking alcohol, working 8 hours a day (that kind of thing). However because we had just kicked these
people out of power, banned the upper class from proper work because of they’re party membership, these people decided they wanted Saddam back, and
they wanted us out “for an illegal invasion”. This happened on about day one.
3. They quickly sided with Al Quada. Why’s that? Why do western educated secular people open to a western standard of living join a fundamentalist
organisation? There are two reasons: Firstly a small minority of Sunnis are not Secular at all (which is better than the Shiite where most are
fundamentalist), and secondly “an enemy of my enemy is friend of mine” (logic).
4. Some Sunnis went about to create trouble between Iraqis as they figured that however bloody the current civil war would create the conditions that
make our presence in Iraq totally unworthy (if not counter productive). So far this strategy has worked, e.g. they say we came there for oil, but if
our troops try to repair something it’s only a matter of time until a rival tribe destroys it. This is the effect of civil war, and why it benefits
those who want us out.
5. The vast majority of Iraqis (on both sides) now remember their lives being better of under Saddam. They didn’t have political freedom then, but
they don’t really have it now as the opinion that might keep you alive in one sectarian controlled area of Baghdad can get you killed few road
markings and streets further down.
However at least under Saddam they had security (or at least not the insecurity they have now). There wasn’t a full blown civil war going on, and
the electricity, water and other things was less disrupted because of that fact.
3. Over 50% of Iraqis (mostly the Shiites who we are allied with) believe woman should be stoned to death for adultery. They would like the U.S backed
“democracy” to conform but it won’t.
4. Consequently about 90% of Iraqis now want us out of Iraq
they want the U.S
backed “Iraqi democracy” to conform, yet instead it’s this democracy which is begging the U.S to be in Iraq. The reason is that if-when we do
leave Iraq in its current state they know those who’ve taken part in current government will almost certainly be killed (unless they can get out of
6. Even the Shiites (about 60% of Iraqis) who were prevented from practising fundamentalism under Saddam, now hate us as they blame the deterioration
of the country on us (and us for not controlling the fundermentalists like Saddam did).
7. Add to that there are many reasons for Iraqis to hate us: 1991 Gulf War (many think Kuwait is there’s because it had been historically part of
Iraqi territory (even though Iraq is a British Empire created country) untill the 1920’s, the U.N sanctions, the Shiite uprising Bush senior said he
would support but didn’t, the bombing of the no fly zones, the 2003 invasion and anarchy it has unleashed, the Iraqi government that doesn’t
represent the will of the Iraqi people (it won’t till 2009 when Iraqis can democratically kick us out).
8. Like when the British ruled India or America. It doesn’t matter how much people thought they would be better of under occupation, when at the end
of the day they just want matters in they’re own hands. The want to hang the traitors who took part in our democracy government, they want to split
Iraq with the Shiites creating an Iran style state, and the Sunnis having a Saddam style dictator of their choice. Only then when two All Powerful
Dictators can discuss Iraqi matters in one of Saddam’s old palaces can there be peace. This won’t happen till we’re out, meanwhile it just
worsens the threat we’re supposed to combat.
9. As for the Kurds: They’re the only part of Iraq that needs and welcomes U.S support as without it Turkey will crush them. From they’re own
point of view they’re not really part of Iraq, but first and foremost Kurdistan. They are a completely different world, primarily because they are
still ethnically-culturally pure (unlike the Shiite and Sunni parts of Iraq where everyone’s mixed).
So does that answer you’re question Royal76
. Basically don’t join the battle and you kicked out of you’re house, or worst executed. And
there are many reasons like when you’re been forced to conform to another religion why you may want to fight. As for those who force religion on
other people they think they’re doing Gods work. They thought that under Saddam but at least they got imprisoned by a police that worked. (Today’s
police force is all too often bunch of terrorists who’ve been given weapons by the Americans in the belief they are a police force).
Iraqis should get us out
, because only then will they be allowed to have the one or two dictatorships that can give them the security against
extremism they want (even the extremists want a dictatorship, but for them it’s more for a love of God). This is because as long as Iraq is a
democracy extremists can always get democratically elected from somewhere.
These extremist hate western democracy, and have only taken part so
they can bugger it up. This is what they deliberately did to Iraq’s security forces (put fundermentalists buddies in charge who turn it into part of
their own power base-terrorist network).
[edit on 090705 by Liberal1984]