Does space end?

Isnt there a theory that earth not only bends light, but space and time as well?

Originally posted by DarkSide
I think space is finite because it had a beginning.

I agree here.. I also believe that the universe is finite but I have no idea how big it is and where it ends but I think it does.
Yea it is huge and Ive often wondered exactly what is at the end or edges of the universe. Perhaps when you get to the end of one, there is another universe or parallel universe but some say that doesnt have to be because universes can actually overlap one another..


I wonder what Stephen Hawkin has to say on this subject.

Originally posted by shiman
Isnt there a theory that earth not only bends light, but space and time as well?

Some physicists use this comparison to describe space and the objects in them.
They describe space as something like a bed sheet stretched out above the ground. When you put a ball in the sheet, it obviously makes an impression in the sheet and this is what creates the pull towards Earth, the Sun or any other object in space.
Using this theory they say that light is also able to be influenced by the gravitational pull that objects have.
Einstein was one of the first (or the first) to have this theory and it was supposedly proven during an eclipse when astronomers were able to see stars that were behind the Sun.

The best way I can comprehend a finite universe is if it's shaped like a 3d version of the old arcade game Asteroid. When you hit the 'edge' of the universe you simply start over from the opposite side.

Otherwise, I think it's much easier to comprehend an infinite universe with no boundaries and I'm leaning towards that being the case.

I wonder if time is linear through out the universe? If it is then leaving from one point to travel to another might be impossible, What I mean is short from instantainiously arriving there, every point in the universe is subject to change, I.E dissintegration of its matter, and reintegration. If traveling to a fixed point, and not a planetary body, we have to consider if space is indeed in flux, there is no fixed point at any given time. Leaving here from earth to go to , lets say mars, is possible because mars is subject to the same state of flux as earth. I argue that our point of departure has to be in the same state of flux as our point of arival. This said what if time adhered to these changes. if leaving earth now to go to another galaxy, we would arrive before we left here? This, if the other galaxy was in a diffferent state of flux, and actually exists before our own, on a linear path of time.??????????????????

Hi tyranny, you have some valid points here.

Originally posted by tyranny22

Originally posted by squiz
My god, the ignorance is running rampant...

Sorry. Most of us didn't study astrophysics in college. But, we do find this
subject fascinating. If you want to discuss this with people who are experts I suggest you go to an astrophysics forum.

My apologies, that comment was a little harsh, I only wanted to encourage further investigation and to discourage accepting these theories as facts.

I would be attacked if I presented these ideas in an astrophysics forum.

I believe the poster was looking for peoples opinions. So, please don't get upset when people's opinions don't coincide modern day cosmologist's.

The opinions I have presented aren't the mainstream point of view, that's the problem. There have been some great ideas presented but those connected to the big bang theory are considered to be fact, which is not the case.

Could it be that this theory may be flawed due to a one plane perspective? i.e.: witnessing these redshifts from only our star system? It would seem difficlut to calculate the distance of a car using it's speed as a constant when viewing it from head on.

I've considered this also, It's a good point. The question does space end is for the moment unanswerable, so yes theories a great and very thought provoking, but lets not make assumptions based on the false science that is the big bang. I have only addressed those views that are taking theories as fact.

If your interested in alternative points of view that are devoid of highly speculative theories and made up forces to make the failed gravity model workable please take a look at the documentary "cosmology quest".
You can see it, and more here.

Originally posted by Unisol
hmmm u know space expanding forever is a very plausable theory if u ask me nicely done

Yea but if it is indeed expanding and will expand forever, then that means there is somewhere for it to expand to that it hasnt gone yet, which means that it has an end.
this could give me a huuuge migrain.
In this topic are most people considering space and the universe to be the same thing? Ive been guilty of doing that myself.. so if the universe is still expanding then im assuming that there is still space left to expand into. But what if space did end but the universe still continued to expand, where would it expand to?
And if it ran out of space but still expanded, would it cause some sort of cataclysmic explosion that would make a supernova look like a fire cracker..
Btw, ive always gone along with the theory that the universe is still expanding.. It would only make sense that it does, since everything else expands, galaxies, solar systems etc...

[edit on 8/9/2007 by Kr0n0s]

Originally posted by squiz

Originally posted by midnightrider07
squiz, what is the tired light hypothesis?

Basically the theory is redshift is produced from light that is losing energy as it travels through space, possible as it collides with particles, although that also doesn't quite add up, their isn't enough matter for that to occur. The other possibility is that it loses energy as it passes through the zero point field or the ether.

Could the mere fact that light is redshifted, causing a longer wavelength, and causing lower energy be a reason for that as well?

Also, just to bring everything back to Earth for a second, science is not by any means perfect. It is, if gradeschool memory serves me correctly, a way to explain what we see. How many times has science made a whoopsie and have to retract or change theories? Juuuust a thought

Originally posted by truttseeker
It has to have some form of boundary or end. If it goes on forever then how is it still expanding. But my question is what is it expanding into. What is it like where theres no space.

lol truth, i said the same thing before i read the entire thread and seen your post.. funny how we both asked the same question, I just wish that someone actually knew the answer..

Originally posted by midnightrider07
Could the mere fact that light is redshifted, causing a longer wavelength, and causing lower energy be a reason for that as well?

I think that sounds fairly reasonable, I'm inclined to believe in Halton Arps findings that quasars are ejected from galaxies and when ejected are in a high energy state. I think that would account for the higher red shift.
It's incredible to think that galaxies almost show a biological behavior, giving birth to other galaxies, This implies that creation is taking place in the nuclei of galaxies, producing matter and energy. Other alternative theories like plasma cosmology also support this idea, some evidence has been observed in lab tests. Thats the great thing about plasma cosmology, it can be verified in the lab, thats real science, something the current paradigm cannot do.
Stars and even planets at their core may be converting energy into matter.
So creation is taking place all the time. Atoms have beginning but the universe, zero point field or whatever you wish to call it, may not have had a beginning.
I'm an infinity person myself.

Just a thought… How can we as a species that has only been around for a few thousand years think that we know or can imagine the limits of space as we perceive it?
Do you think a fish has any idea of what a computer is or can even in its wildest dreams imagine the complexity of it? Do you really think that we are on the cutting edge of knowledge and it has only taken a few thousand years to get there? The rest I leave up to you… Just my two cents.

Originally posted by DarkSide
I think space is finite because it had a beginning.

Well thats a good one but what if it ends where it began isn't it than not infinite and not have an end since it starts at the beginning again ?

Space has no end and no beginning (Just like God has no end and no beginning). The problem arises when we think of things as linear, when in fact they are cyclical and multidimentional (proven by quantum mechanics and quantum physics. And before you cite examples of The Big Bang, here are a few websites that refute that:

www.angelfire.com...

www.biblelife.org...

The universe is actually holographic, here some websites to aquant you with that theory:

www.crystalinks.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

www.spaceandmotion.com...

www.damtp.cam.ac.uk...

A thorough study of these websites and theories will fully answer your question and expand your understanding of space and time. Hope this helps.

Originally posted by ja5on
Just a thought… How can we as a species that has only been around for a few thousand years think that we know or can imagine the limits of space as we perceive it?
Do you think a fish has any idea of what a computer is or can even in its wildest dreams imagine the complexity of it? Do you really think that we are on the cutting edge of knowledge and it has only taken a few thousand years to get there? The rest I leave up to you… Just my two cents.

were not saying any of this is fact its just theory and how could we get any progress on how the universe works if we just sit there and not even try to figure it out. I think this is why we humans have a conscious mind so we can try and figure out these things.



[edit on 9-8-2007 by stove167]

Originally posted by stove167

Originally posted by ja5on
Just a thought… How can we as a species that has only been around for a few thousand years think that we know or can imagine the limits of space as we perceive it?
Do you think a fish has any idea of what a computer is or can even in its wildest dreams imagine the complexity of it? Do you really think that we are on the cutting edge of knowledge and it has only taken a few thousand years to get there? The rest I leave up to you… Just my two cents.

were not saying any of this is fact its just theory and how could we get any progress on how the universe works if we just sit there and not even try to figure it out. I think this is why we humans have a conscious mind so we can try and figure out these things.



[edit on 9-8-2007 by stove167]

You are exactly right… I think we are just beginning our journey into things we have no idea of or about.

In my opinion I think that the Universe is a closed circulatory loop system. If you start walking straight ahead, eventually youll get back to the same point(it was mentioned before) My other guess is that the Universe is so vast that we'll never know where it ends, but the ending point should be some kind of a black hole or a force barrier, for example like trying to put to positive magnets together, that it wont let to never be together, and wil endlessly will be repelling.

my take the universe is in 3d surrounded by darkness expanding or not
and the darkness is....m.......black hole perhaps?or just empty space that nothin is in there

Originally posted by Grock
Space has no end and no beginning (Just like God has no end and no beginning). The problem arises when we think of things as linear, when in fact they are cyclical and multidimentional (proven by quantum mechanics and quantum physics. And before you cite examples of The Big Bang, here are a few websites that refute that:

www.angelfire.com...

www.biblelife.org...

The universe is actually holographic, here some websites to aquant you with that theory:

www.crystalinks.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

www.spaceandmotion.com...

www.damtp.cam.ac.uk...

A thorough study of these websites and theories will fully answer your question and expand your understanding of space and time. Hope this helps.

i'm not sure if you referred to me but probably you are hehe.

Well im not so firmi8liar with all this stuff but thanks for the links those contain alot of info. I still have alot of reading /learning to do when it comes to these kind of things so thanks again for the information.

Space and time do not exist without one another. Thus, the space-time continuum.

Space "ends" when time "ends."

Thank You MuseMan for aknowledging my post, lately it seems that when I put answers and diamonds on peoples doorsteps, they look the other way and pretend that I didnt... a sympton of modern society perhaps?

And no I wasn't pointing to you specificly, but all the posts in general.