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Limiting Collateral Damage in a Nuclear War With Iran (Opinion)

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posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 03:54 AM
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My point about the large population of Jews in Iran was more to do with the fanciful "what if" attack by Israel.

Surely a nation of Jews would have to really justify killing around 25,000 of their co-religionists?

Still, the premiss of the article is plain silly.




posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 04:55 AM
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Agit8d Chop,

I agree with your "theorized" outcome of a possible conflict with Iran and Israel, thou I think you left one factor out....Russia, in the context of agressor.

I find it difficult to beleive that Russia would not get involved in this conflict.

Russia has a deep resentment for Israel and in the scenario depicted by yourself, They will be sitting back and watching what is going on and which way the tide of war will go. Yes, The Yanks will be annhialated in Iraq in between the Iraqi civil war and this new larger scale war. They will be like rats in a barrel of water and no where to run......withdrawal would be impossible in that scenario and it'd be evry battallion for itself until their ammo supplies run out.

Russia will seriously find it dificult not to get involvoved in this case and hammer the the last nail in the US's coffin of global dominance.

Have a quick read of the following write-ups by the late (I beleive) Joe Vialls; an awesome and highly detailed investigative reporter.

Iran and Syria Armed with Russian S-300 Missiles
www.vialls.com...


When corrupt politicians and military contractors in America decided to control the world by building monolithic aircraft carriers, known politely in New York as "Instruments of American Foreign Policy", Russia did not bother to compete. It could have done so easily, but chose instead to find more economical ways of destroying this massive seaborne American menace. This was achieved by the "Sunburn" and "Onyx" supersonic sea-skimming missiles, which have never been known to miss their targets.
Note here that both missiles have a range of less than 250 miles at best, proving they are designed for purely defensive use. None have been fitted to strategic bombers in order to attack American ships in American waters, but will unquestionably be used to sink any American aircraft carrier stupid enough to get within 250 miles of Russia or one of its close allies. Thus these missiles have completely neutered America's "Instruments of Foreign Policy" at a cost of just one million dollars per round.
At the tactical level, these weapons are equally useful. American foreign policy has been getting dangerously close to Iran and Syria during the last two years, and both sovereign states are now equipped with either Sunburn or Onyx, both of which are nuclear capable. So if America is stupid enough to attack Iran, it will almost certainly lose at least one Carrier battle group in the Persian Gulf to these unstoppable weapons, making the odds too high.
In like manner, if the Jewish State is stupid enough to attack Syria, it can expect to lose most of greater Tel Aviv and probably Haifa as well. The problem is that a desperate Jewish State on the hind foot, might decide to go nuclear, and direct its 'requisitioned' stock of American atomic weapons against both Syria and Iran. Clearly, defensive Sunburns and Onyxs would be of no use at all in such a crazed doomsday scenario. But never fear, Russia had already thought of the answer to that little problem as well.

But that was then, and now is now. Both Iran and Syria have recently been equipped with the very latest version of this missiles, the S-300PMU-2, which is larger, faster and even more efficient at hunting down its prey. The range of this upgraded missile is in excess of 125 miles, with the ability to acquire and kill targets flying as low as 30 feet. The Russians routinely shoot down random target drones travelling at 5,800 feet per second, and further claim the weapon is easily capable of destroying targets approaching at up to 15,500 feet per second, or Mach 14. Trust me, the S-300PMU-2 will swiftly take care of anything America or the Jewish State is reckless enough to fire at Iran or Syria, and then some. Rumor has it that this big bird of prey is canny enough to detect and destroy Groom Lake's 'invisible' B2 bomber.
As I prepare to post this report on the Internet, stories are flying around about a Pentagon employee who has been charged for 'leaking' top-secret plans to invade Iran, to 'pro-Israeli lobbies.' For crying out loud - it is the 'pro-Israeli lobbies' who are actually trying to get America to sacrifice its service personnel for the greater good of the terminally ill Jewish State.


And the following piece-
Titled-"Russia Ready to Vaporize the Jewish State"
www.vialls.com...


About one month ago, Russia discreetly invoked MAD again, but this time in the Middle East in direct response to hysterical Israeli threats to nuke Iran with submarine-launched American Harpoon missiles. Quietly and with the minimum of fuss, Russia deployed its most advanced tactical nuclear missiles and crews to both Syria and Iran, thereby sending an unmistakable diplomatic signal that if Israel attacked Tehran or Damascus with nuclear weapons, Russia would in return instantly and anonymously vaporize the Jewish State.
This is not an idle or exaggerated threat. The Russian missile type deployed in Syria and Iran is the P270 Moskit [Mosquito], known in NATO circles as the SS-N-22 "Sunburn", once described by Rep. Dana Rohrabacher as "the most dangerous anti-ship missile in the Russian, and now the Chinese, fleet.” The ship borne version of this missile is launched from deck mounted quad tubes, but since Rohrabacher made his comments, Russia has adapted the Sunburn for submerged launch from submarines, air launch from Sukhoi 27s, and single surface launch from modified 40’ flatbed trucks. Nowadays, western defense experts unambiguously view all versions of Sunburn as the “most dangerous missiles in the world”.


The above articles were written in 2005 and 2003, one also of siginificance is the following-
"America may be forced to surrender in Iraq"
www.vialls.com...

Remember, alot has gone on that we dont even know about, alot of unknown "X-Factors" that we as civilians aren't privvy to and therefore cannot debate on. These must also be considered.

All I know is that Israel and their lobby have gotten the US to do their dirty work for them in Iraq, and this will be the US and Israel's downfall, the US is being setup to take the fall, and Russia, like it or not will emerge from this as the new world leader, and leader of the New World Government that will take place.




posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 04:58 AM
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In reference to what DenyAllKnowledge has posted, I would like to invite you to read what Jonathan Cook say's about Israel’s Jewish problem in Tehran.
www.informationclearinghouse.info...



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 08:46 AM
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Wow, melbourne militia cheers for that.
Gives it a whole new direction..



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 09:01 AM
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Originally posted by kacou
In reference to what DenyAllKnowledge has posted, I would like to invite you to read what Jonathan Cook say's about Israel’s Jewish problem in Tehran.
www.informationclearinghouse.info...




very very good read actually


To step up these efforts -- and presumably to avoid the embarrassing incongruence of claiming an imminent second Holocaust while thousands of Jews live happily in Tehran -- Israel is now backing a move by Jewish donors to guarantee every Iranian Jewish family $60,000 to settle in Israel, in addition to a host of existing financial incentives that are offered to Jewish immigrants, including loans and cheap mortgages.

The announcement was met with scorn by the Society of Iranian Jews, which issued a statement that their national identity was not for sale. “The identity of Iranian Jews is not tradeable for any amount of money. Iranian Jews are among the most ancient Iranians. Iran’s Jews love their Iranian identity and their culture, so threats and this immature political enticement will not achieve their aim of wiping out the identity of Iranian Jews.”


it actually appears that iranian jews have more freedom than israelie jews do (from reading that article)



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 09:29 AM
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1) "IF" nuclear weapons were used oin Iran, it would be nuclear "bunker-busters", not air or ground but explosions-like normal bombs do.

2) Due to the depth and steel reinforceced concrete bunkers were Iran is preparing nuclear weapons, er, peaceful power-
, conventional bombs would not have the necessary force to go that far down and distroy the "facilities".

3) There would be no real means to limit coladerial damage as Iran has chosen to hide their nuclear weapon preparing under it's major populated cities. though using bunker -busters will to some degree limit the fallout-not enough though.

4) when a country repeatly threatens all those living in anopther country, as well as threatening anyone who deals with them, remember-all those who trade/deal with Israel will burn in hell fires on earth-sounds like nukes to me.

5) Either way, this will not end well for the world.



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 09:50 AM
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Sometimes, when a child is bad, he needs a good spanking. Iran needs a good nuking. There is no "moral dilemma" here and it is no more complicated than that.


I found it hard to read past this point in that article. No more complicated? Is there any thing simple about waging Nuclear war?



The IAEA found in Iran polonium-210, used almost exclusively for making A-bomb triggers. Since polonium-210 has a half-life of only 138 days, it is highly perishable and only made when use of an atom bomb is imminent.


There are other uses for polonium (besides make a refreshing cup of tea for Russian dissidents
)

One is for devices that eliminate static charges in textile mills and other places - wait, wasn't Israel's nuke program operated for years in secrecy in supposed textile mill in the middle of nowhere
wiki po-210


I realize that Europeans hold pompous posh conventions against this - with their pate, bidet, foie gras, valet, chateau and Malraux - but that's the way the cookie crumbles.


Way to make friends


Wouldn't take this too seriously - Israel needs serious help from the outside world to tackle Iran and Syria, which would drag in USA, then Russia - If Israel don't get the whole mutely assured destruction idea the big boys sure as hell do.



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 10:03 AM
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Originally posted by kacou
In reference to what DenyAllKnowledge has posted, I would like to invite you to read what Jonathan Cook say's about Israel’s Jewish problem in Tehran.
www.informationclearinghouse.info...



Cheers for that kacou, firt time I've seen that article. I remember a friend of the family (Iranian Jew) scoffing at the offer of financial incentive from Israel and also talking about how it would only reinforce the horrible stereotype of Jews being money obsessed - he said something like "How dare they think they can buy our national pride!"

There was one article a while ago on the bbc website about "Iran's proud but discreet Jews"

Interesting all the same.



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 10:21 AM
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I dont belive an Israeli nuclear strike is most certainly impossible,especially in light of irans recent nuclear accomplishments.Also one has to wonder if the tiny israeli forces can hold off the combined armies of their enemies this time.I have read that they(israel)by rights were on the verge of defeat in 1973 and reportly just about to use their nukes when the arab forces stopped their armored advance mistakenly fearing a israeli trap.The story goes that this gave israel time to muster their reserves for the deciding counter strike.Has anyone else heard this?It was in Author Hal Linseys"LATE GREAT PLANET EARTH"series of books.



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 12:29 PM
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LOL ISRAEL is not going to nuke Iran! I actually JUST got back from Israel this morning, i was there for a week, and nuking Iran in not on the minds of the Israelies... Trust Me, just like with Iraq, Israel will wait for America to solve their problems...



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by Melbourne_Militia

The Yanks will be annihilated in Iraq in between the Iraqi civil war and this new larger scale war. They will be like rats in a barrel of water and no where to run......withdrawal would be impossible in that scenario and it'd be every battalion for itself until their ammo supplies run out.


You seem to have a very low opinion of “the Yanks” military capabilities. Don’t forget that the US has a lot of military assets in the region other than ground troops and aircraft carriers. If any battle really started going so badly that our troops were at risk of being annihilated, you would quickly see much larger and more deadly assets brought into the fight.

As for the Russian missiles – they are probably very capable weapons. I am sure that at least some of the US military planners have taken enough time out from cashing their checks from Halliburton to develop tactics or countermeasures for these missiles. It could be as simple as keep all of the ships more than 250 miles out to sea.

Another thing to consider is that much of the US weaponry you see is 20 year old technology. The B2 Bomber is a good example. I don’t think all of the guys in the massive US military industrial complex have been doing nothing but cashing their checks for the last 20 years. I would dare say that the US could have a few surprises for the Russians, or anyone else, as well.



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 03:42 PM
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I seriously doubt Israel would be permitted to throw nukes around

The primary objective in a war with Iran is the security of the khuzestan region.

Saddam tried and failed - rather amusingly at a time when Mr Rumsfield was selling him toys.

Securing khuzestan requires a rather large land air and sea assault - making Iraq look like a training session.

Iran is not an easy target - presenting the possibility of a very large scale conflict as well as the diplomacy issues with the other big players of the world china and russia.

Ideally a very large bang in a very public place with a finger pointing east would at least secure the need and the will to take the country. However the issue of numbers and boots on the ground to perform such a task is also needing to be addressed.

In such an event tactical strikes would be required but the idea of simply throwing nukes around is highly reckless. Especially when such valuable assets are at stake.

Iran will be in time another lesson that trading your oil in Euros will not be permitted for long. Saddam got about 2 years of trading in before the dollars smacked him with shock and awe.



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 08:13 PM
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None will never happen .In this time frame period ! Just won't come about ,cause it never happens how we think it will ? .Just the way it is ..Years from now maybe ? But not now ( I think other smaller ,not so dramatic ) will happen ..In the Future 10 -15 yrs.



posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 04:24 AM
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Every nation and every race, unfortunately or thankfully have they “nutcase”. This so called artist doesn’t really know what hi’s talking about when calling to nuc-Iran.you have to laugh at this kind of stuff.
Call them agent provocateur, but rest a sure that Iran is a now becoming a grand player in the middle east. USA has long foreseen this inevitable out come and didn’t really do much about it. The 1978 Iranian Revolution happen with no specific warning. Before President Mosaddec was overthrew by the CIA, he tolled the US government that only him and hi’s party could actually appease the Islamic cleric and insure a secular government by diplomatic means and not violence. But back then the USA didn’t know what hi meant. Mosadec warning came true in 1978. Now Iran want nothing to do with any of this old geopolitical game that USA threw Israel had played for the past 50 years in this rejoin. Like any country in this world Iran want prosperity and growth, and they have the capability to obtain it. This for sure will be a competition for Israel.
The good news is that the atmosphere of US-Iran affairs is slowly but surely changing in a constructive direction. Iran helped the United States fight al-Qaeda, the Taliban, and Saddam Hussein.
What we are seeing is a new age for 70 millions of Persian citizen. Like any other country in the world Iran want to secure a future for themselves. The question is not about bomb-Iran but dos Iran has the right to develop nuclear weapon?
Mike Whitney has this to say about Iran been nuclear:
www.informationclearinghouse.info...



Kacou




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