WOW!! Qigong magic..jeEEez, if this is real..Whew!!Must Watch Very Interesting!!

As i stated in my previous post, I do think its posible to effect the bodies autonomic system which controls heart rate, breathing and core tempreture. But these are not magical powers and does not allow any one to start fire with there mind or levitate or knock someone out from a distance!!
youtube link to a fight
Link to another demo lol
I like the second link because of the excuses the guy gives for this not working!!
I must remember if I'm ever in a fight to make sure my tougue and toes are in the right place

I think a lot of these myths are started by people who do not understand the martial arts and believe it to be almost supernatrual.
Watch the guy start the fire, Ive seen that trick done by a magicians (a lot better I might add), do I believe that magicians are supernatrual, a big NO!! please read my sig' as this seems to be aproprate for this thread


[edit on 7-8-2007 by Kurokage]

Originally posted by Kurokage
If martial artists have real/magical powers, what powers would you class as real or fake??

Very few martial artists have a Gift of Chi or Ki that is strong enough to use in combat. Most can spend many years training and still not have that ability.

Originally posted by Kurokage
If a martial artist can affect some one without touching them do you feel this to real or a phyological effect on the student??

You mean like some kind of placebo effect?

The impact is physical and psychological, and there is no need on the part of the recipient to believe in the power at all.

This I believe entirely because of the power of meditation. I personally have never seen it taken this far but I sincerely believe that you can.

Whether this man has done so or not is questionable. Lighting fires with your hand? This must be the first person in the world to be able to do this. Why wouldn't he want people to know about it again?

Originally posted by Kurokage
I have been a teacher of Aikido (high dan grade) for many years and have seen with my own eyes these chi/ki frauds exposed!!
Has for my friend, he practiced Tai chi for over 30 years and has a very strong chi but dosen't believe the hype surrounding secretive styles that endow it users with magical powers.

Apparently his "very strong chi" doesn't convince you that he has any special Chi combat ability. Which only indicates to us that his Chi really isn't that powerful in the first place.

You state that you are a teacher of Aikido.

Well then, you mean to imply that you have never even heard of the "touchless throw" of Aikido master Yamamoto? It was pictured in a book from the 1970s called The Three Paths to Enlightenment.

Originally posted by Kurokage
And Mr Seagal's style is not quite as soft as it should be, as is my interpretation of Aikido!!!!
People need to understand that there is no magic force that can push someone over at a distance in martial arts, its just manipulation of students and there misplaced belief in there "all powerful" teachers.

I agree that there are no "all powerful teachers."

But I also surmise that you don't have a powerful Gift of Chi/Ki.

Again I refer to the Dim Mak video for a demonstration of someone who does.

The first thing I thought of was these small pads that you snap and they heat up due to chemical reaction. Also here are chemicals when mixed that will increase temps. What he is doing I have no idea. Kinetic energy? However the one fellow giving testamony seens to have a greater affect the next day more a psychological affect I felt by his context.

Interesting never the less.

Imagine what we could do if we seek God with the same meditation.

One note. The man may be the ground, pulling energy into him, instead of pushing it out. That would explain why the led worked with him holding the ground. A good test would be to use a diode.

Sort of like static electricity needs a ground to be released, this man may be the ground. Just a thought.

How he lit the paper on fire, I don't know. But I'm curious why he got so angry that they showed it. Seems to me, if I had this ability, I would want to share it as much as possible. There are no secrets in truth.

I'm in the therapy industry as well, and would love to learn more about this. I'll read the whole thread tomorrow, I wonder if theres any schools in Sydney.

Im sorry Paul but I completely disagree with you on this point, Chi/Ki is used all the time in Aikido (unbendable arm is one of the first things taught) do you pratice a martial art?? In all the years of studying martial arts I have never seen anyone prove they can throw psi balls like something out of a japanese cartoon, levitate or knock out someone without touching them.

Originally posted by blowfishdl
This I believe entirely because of the power of meditation. I personally have never seen it taken this far but I sincerely believe that you can.

Whether this man has done so or not is questionable. Lighting fires with your hand? This must be the first person in the world to be able to do this.

Probably not.

Gifts of the Spirit - aka Gifts of Chi/Ki - have existed for time immemorial.

Originally posted by blowfishdl
Why wouldn't he want people to know about it again?

Because the discarnate community on the Other Side (represented by his "old master" that came to him in the night) who supply him with his Chi Gift do not want him to use it for less than noble reasons.

When one uses a Gift for less than noble reasons, there is the danger of losing it.

Just study up on the Indian Swami known as Sai Baba.

It happened to him.

And justly so

Originally posted by Kurokage
knock out someone without touching them.

Two, maybe three hours after some of mama's ham-'n-beans, bet I could make you at least woozy.

You know....the ancient practice of fla tu lens......

Originally posted by Kurokage
Im sorry Paul but I completely disagree with you on this point, Chi/Ki is used all the time in Aikido (unbendable arm is one of the first things taught).

Quite so. The unbendable arm is indeed one of the first things taught.

Originally posted by Kurokage
do you pratice a martial art??

Did you actually read my posts?

Originally posted by Kurokage
In all the years of studying martial arts I have never seen anyone prove they can throw psi balls like something out of a japanese cartoon, levitate or knock out someone without touching them.

Your minor experiences with Chi or Ki should teach you that the more impressive feats are possible with the same energy.

Did you view the Dim Mak video?

I'm sorry that you do not understand Aikido or its way.
I dont know how to do the qote thingy lol
so this next lot of text is a quote.
Finally, the aspect of striking, which is most misunderstood outside of Aikido circles, is the so-called "touchless throw". Every interaction in Aikido contains many different possibilities. Most of the time in Aikido practice the strikes are implicit rather than explicit. One can do a whole class and not see any overt strikes. This is because, if well trained, both partners know where the strikes could be and do not do anything within the interaction, which would require that, the hidden strikes become manifest. But in the "touchless throw" we see the "not striking of striking" used in its most artful guise. This is accomplished by subtly changing the timing of a strike. The strike needs to be just fast enough that the attacker can not avoid or block it but is just slow enough that the attacker can respond to it by breaking his posture and taking a fall in order not to be hit. The emphasis on this type of interaction is unique to Aikido. It is actually a valid martial interaction in a type of coded form. An uke trained in the use of strikes as throws will be airborne the instant the strike is perceived.
End of quote.
And Paul Please do not state what you think you know about my experiences in martial arts as I have made no mention about your skills poor or other wise.
I,m sorry I missed your post earlier about practicing and I did watch the vid.



[edit on 7-8-2007 by Kurokage]

Originally posted by Kurokage
Eyewitness86 please point me to evidence that proves this is real beyond a doubt!!! Why are none of these martial artist winning the UFC without touching an oppenent or flying round the ring!! God has nothing to do with Ki/Chi, which I do believe is some kind of energy but not some magical power that can make me fly or knock someone out from the other side of the room, mat or ring!!!!
there's a martial arts forum called sherdog, go check out the video section where you will see these frauds taught a lesson in real martial arts!!!!!

Kuki nage (the air throw) is in the mind and has to do with intent it's not a manifestation of chi, It's not meant for nor is it applicable to real fighting. UFC is a sport and not REAL martial arts. The sport martial arts are everywhere there are few real martial art traditions in comparison. The difference is whether or not your prepared to take someones eye out. There are techniques that can kill quite easily, you won't find them in the sport martial arts though. Hmmm.... I think that would be braking the rules.

Real martial arts intend for a fight to last only seconds. Sport martial arts are akin to boxing or kickboxing, they have their value but are not the same thing. I'm fully aware of the charlatans in the martial arts and of the so called masters being taught a lesson, quite humorous I agree. But their not masters of anything, the real masters would not partake in such a thing unless the opponent was prepared for possible death. This is the reality of real martial arts.

I found your comments a little amusing coming from an aikido instructor, My opinion of many aikido demonstrations would be similar to what you have described above, mostly I see people throwing themselves. That's what I'd call fraudulent. No offense just my opinion.

People are always skeptical when I tell them they can dodge an unseen blow from behind, they soon change their minds when they realize they can do it as well. Some hard body martial artist are able to break bricks with their heads with forces that have been measured at a lethal level, their heads, by all accounts should break first. Mind over matter is a reality.

Originally posted by Kurokage
But in the "touchless throw" we see the "not striking of striking" used in its most artful guise. This is accomplished by subtly changing the timing of a strike. The strike needs to be just fast enough that the attacker can not avoid or block it but is just slow enough that the attacker can respond to it by breaking his posture and taking a fall in order not to be hit. The emphasis on this type of interaction is unique to Aikido. It is actually a valid martial interaction in a type of coded form. An uke trained in the use of strikes as throws will be airborne the instant the strike is perceived.

So you are saying that the so-called "touchless throw" is actually a sham.

Straight from a teacher of Aikido.

Okay...I'll accept that, for now anyway.

Originally posted by Kurokage
And Paul Please do not state what you think you know about my experiences in martial arts as I have made no mention about your skills poor or other wise.

I didn't mention anything about your ability as a martial artist and I certainly appreciate your input.

Originally posted by Kurokage
I did watch the vid.

It is a real eye-opener for the application of Chi/Ki in combat.

Learn from it

None taken Squiz, I have been to a few demos myself and thought the samething (those wrist locks are hard to see) lol
I did boxing in my younger days and tend to mix this with my Aikido for more effect!!
I think your missing the point, martial arts was developed for fighting and war (and later used for bettering oneself) and the styles used in MMA is just a reinterpretation of that IMHO.


Paul all touchless throws including Aikido and your style are shams if it doesn't work as a defence in a real fight in my opinion.

"Your minor experiences with Chi or Ki should teach you that the more impressive feats are possible with the same energy."
is this not your coment about my martial arts experience paul??




[edit on 7-8-2007 by Kurokage]

skepchick.org...

This link gives a good explanation of all the illusions. When I first saw the video some of the same things occured to me. Why the tablecloth ? Why cover the glass ? This link explains it all. Bet the guy had fun making it go. Gets alot of people excited.

Originally posted by squiz
My opinion of many aikido demonstrations would be similar to what you have described above, mostly I see people throwing themselves. That's what I'd call fraudulent. No offense just my opinion.

There is truth to this.

I have seen this as well.

For example, you don't see bodybuilders - or even Sumo wrestlers who know how to fall - being thrown around in Aikido demos.

It is always other Aikido practitioners, usually slight of build, who are being taken down.

This detracts from an effective demonstration, IMHO.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Your minor experiences with Chi or Ki should teach you that the more impressive feats are possible with the same energy.

Originally posted by Kurokage
is this not your coment about my martial arts experience paul??

Not really.

It is a comment about your experience in channeling Ki (the Japanese word for it) or Chi (the Chinese word for it). But there are other words for it as well, e.g., Prana for the practitioners of Yoga and The Holy Spirit for Catholics with a Gift of Healing.

Like the Dim Mak practitioner in the video, those who have a lot of experience with Chi know that much more can be accomplished than just the unmovable arm in Aikido.

Like levitation for example.

Which leads me to agree with Eyewitness86 on this issue.

I have seen it at a lot martial arts demos to be honest, pupils just blindly following there instructors and not asking "why?" thats how all these frauds get away with it!! but atleast at Aikido demos the teacher actually makes physical contact with his opponent instead of some magical airy fairy force.
When I was about 20 or so me and a few friends went to a dojo down on the coast (I wont give any names lol) half way through the lesson the teacher stopped the class and asked me and my friends about our style of Aikido. When we asked why, he said we were far more agressive with our techniques then he seen before, it was funny this teacher taught the same style and had written books on Aikido, just goes to show you that not all teachers are the same!!

I'm sorry Paul but I think we will have to agree to disagree on this, as I have witnessed many strange things in my life but nothing that proves to me that Ki/chi is as powerful (outside of the body) as it is made out to be by some teachers. Levitation and the like where just stories told by the first westners who witnessed martial arts being demonstrated for the first time. Just like the samurai seeing the first ninjas as some sort of demon.

Great vid DJ, which proves what I'm saying.




[edit on 7-8-2007 by Kurokage]

Originally posted by Kurokage
I have witnessed many strange things in my life but nothing that proves to me that Ki/chi is as powerful (outside of the body) as it is made out to be by some teachers.

The reason you will not see anything like this in the west is because 99.9% of the people lack the focus and discipline to achieve these types of results, not to mention qualified masters.

In the US it is all about Ego and Money thus most so called masters or teachers haven't put the time in and/or have not learned from a true master from the east, it's all about the money and locking students into contracts. The true essence of martial arts in the west is only physical at best.