Dogs...good or bad idea?

***helpful tips to prepare your dog to bug-out***
Dogs take up a huge portion of our life, both our dogs and others dogs. so here is my two cents, spend it or leave it
Dont forget your dog must be in excellent shape both physically and mentally.

**** Keep them parasite free, vaccinated against the essentials, feed them the best diet you can afford and supplement with meat and whole foods if possible.

***Plan on taking heartworm and flea/tick medication in your bug out bag its not heavy and will save your best friends life.

***there is a product called EMT gel they sell it at Bass pro or online, it is safe for all animals and can be used on puncture or gunshot wounds. It is pure collagen and can work miracles for both pup and you. stops bleeding, takes the pain out, and helps the tissue regenerate.

Even better teach them to carry their own pack..they can be ordered from any dog supply...then they have their own supplies and some of yours as well.

Exercise them in different enviroments, hiking, swimming, snow, rain, pulling a cart, running beside a bicycle etc.

Socialization is key in building a bond with your dog, exposure to all sorts of stimuli makes for a steady minded, trustworthy dog. take them anywhere and everywhere you can. The more they experience the better they will be able to handle new experiences without shutting down and becoming a dog who fear biting or a total basket case.

keeping the proper positions in your pack dynamic is also crucial, it builds trust and confidence in your dog to know what is expected of them to live in their pack.
DO the following in a safe, slow and gentle manner, dont put yourself in danger of being bitten or creating anxiety in your dog it will only make things worse.
DONT hit, yell, "roll", or force your dog into submission, this can be highly dangerous in a dog that isnt totally secure.

-be consistent with rules!!!
-touch their entire bodies, inside the ears, between the toes, even near or on their genitals, do this gently and like a massage, move slowly on areas where they may be uncomfortable. Manipulate their limbs, rolls them from side to the other while they are relaxed. This builds trust and is essential for pest removal or treating injuries.
my dogs are like putty in my hands during their "Rubbies"...
but no one else can probe between their toes without a fuss and some grumbling.

-always go through the door first

-follow the nothing in life is free philosophy..sit before petting, sit before
food, sit before playing etc.....

-take away toys, bones, balls, food, whatever they have that has a high
currency routinely

-nearly any dog can be taught to stay nearby or recall while off leash, a 20-30 foot rope, some chicken or steak or even cat food, and a whistle will go a long way to teach them it is worth their time to stay close.
Even our husky is able to be off lead in a safe place and will not run away, this has taken hours and hours to accomplish and we still work it everyday.

if your pack bond is healthy and strong, the instinct kicks in and a dog will provide for its pack, defend its pack, live and die for its pack. a dog who isnt totally secure in its pack or itself and its role will be nervous and afraid and wont function at the top of its game in a survival mode, which is when you will need him the most.

it doesnt require schutzhound training for a dog to defend its people, i personally dont that sort of training as i think it can create aggression where it doesnt need to be. im just not comfortable with it.

Originally posted by resistor

Originally posted by FalseParadigm
If anyone has any questions about the kind of dog we would need in a survival situation, and if it would be safe with children, I would advise you to go and re read Ole Yeller, who in MY opinion was either a pit bull, or a black mouth cur, which is a pit bull derived breed.

I take it your not from the south. Here in the south, your random mutt is what’s called an ‘old yaller dog’. If they were allowed to hang around, they typically lived under the porch and were fed scraps when available. When dogs start breeding indiscriminately, and are left mostly on their own to survive, they quickly reduce back to the characteristics that allow for survival. See the dingo for confirmation. They tend to have a yellow-red coat, long narrow muzzles, upright ears and are around 75lbs in size, but your individual may vary. There were no doubt VERY few , if any, pit bulls in the old south era this book was written about. Most of the ‘old yaller’ mutts were from run away hunting dogs who’s interbred offspring were brought home by a child and tolerated by doting parents. As hunting dogs became less necessary for survival, and standards of living improved, these mutts turned into pets. Of course the Old Yeller in the movie was mostly Lab, but the one in the book was about 50 years too early to have any pit bull in him. I think the PB is wonderful breed, BTW.

Please don't assume anything about me.
And if you look at the history of the pit bull for the last 75 years or so, you will see that the top dogs came from out of the south. Not only that, but the breed was largely developed in the south.
Further, pit bulls had a LARGE following in the rural settler community. Lara Ingal Wilder's dog, Jack, from the Little House on the Prairie series is widely believed to have been a pit bull.
I have seen many many old pictures of families with their dog in the picture, which looks to me to be a pit bull. And those pictures were not taken up north.
Back then, they were not called pit bulls, they were called Bulldogs, and they did NOT mean the English Bulldog. They meant the pit bull. Even today, oldtimers call the pit bull a bulldog, and I am talking about men 75-80 years old, who had bulldogs when THEY were just kids, and recall their daddies and grandpas having bulldogs, or, more correctly, Bull DAWGS.
One of James Thurber's dog was also a pit bull, though he was called in his book a bull dog.
There were MANY pit bulls in the south during the era that book was written. As a matter fact, 1860's Texas was a hot bed of pit bull activity. Still was 100 years later, for that matter, lol.
And I know that a yella dawg ain't nothin' but a yella dawg. They might be a hound, they might be a fiest, they might be a summa but they ain't nothin' but a yella dawg. What I am saying is that Old Yeller was a pit bull, or a black mouth cur, IN MY OPINION based on what I know about pit bulls, and their hidden history.. you know the one the media doesn't tell you about as they try to convince you all these dogs are good for is fighting, and mauling children and little old ladies.
And the pit bull, 100 years ago was a hawg hunter, a bull catcher, played with the kids, protected the house, and when the family went to town, yes, they might fight the dog for a little entertainment.
And looking at pictures of black mouthed curs from way back, I can see they had a decent amount of pit bull in them, as did the catahoula, which ended up getting into the pit bull bloodlines, and is probably where the merle in pit bulls came from.
And the reason these dogs were bred into pit bulls was to increase their heart.. Just like when they say that the Bulldog was crossed to the greyhound to increase their heart, or gameness, their will to win, trust me, they were NOT talking about the English Bulldog, they were talking about the pit bull. Just the mechanics if the EB to the greyhound is insane, completely different body types, but look at the game bred pit bulls body.. makes much more sense.
Another good example of the type of dog that you are referring to is the Canaan dog, and the Basinji as well. Primitive types. Size depends not only on climate, but on the types of dogs that went into the genetic make up.. and 40-50 lbs is more average than 75 lbs, IMO.

I adopted a black lab pit bull mix rescued by a local news broadcaster in cleveland ohio. Named him shoreway, sans the highway he was found on.
The smartest low maintenance loyalist dog I've ever had. When I worked too much he'd find a newspaper to rip up to show his displeasure, never destructed anything in the house. He could hear a twig break a mile away, and for a 60lb dog no intruder with a right mind would even try it. In a time of strife with limited resources I would'nt go with a 130lb new zealand ridgeback, or a wolf hybrid. I'm sure some of you read about the terrier who fought off a rattler who was about to pounce on a child in s usa a few weeks ago, he took the hit and is recovering. Any dog well treated and loved will defend you with its life. I just wish most people could be more like dogs.

reply to post by FalseParadigm


So very, very sorry to have assumed. Bulldog is what I grew up calling the PBT, and what my mom would probably still call 'em. I always thought they first came over with the Irish immigration waves of the late 1800's. Authorities seem to disagree on this point quite a bit so, if you've seen 'em in old pictures, that's good enough for me.

Pitbulls, as they are called now, have been called bulldogs down south since as long as I and my dad can remember. In fact my grand dad owned a tobacco farm down in southern Virginia and they had several of these dogs who lived on the farm and helped with work and hunting. These bulldogs (not the jowled English variety you may be thinking of), by nature, are great companion dogs. They usually love people, most have the heart and disposition of a clown, always playing and having a good old time. They are powerful animals no doubt, but faithful and loving to a fault. I can remember as a small child being left in the yard with our family bulldog and being licked half to death They are very protective of children and even adult humans and are loyal literally to the death.

Problem is some idiots started breeding these dogs for the purposes of fighting (which I detest in every way) and hence created the violent, attack prone variety that we now know as the American Pitbull. These dogs get a horrible rep considering they are as much victims of the stupidity of man kind as humans are who fall victim to vicious, out of control animals. It has been stated over and over again but still stands as true today as ever, a dog is only as vicious as it's owner!! If you beat and mistreat the animal and force it to become vicious, over time it will. These dogs aim to please humans, and will do what they are taught to do.

These bulldogs, if raised properly and treated kindly, are some of the most friendly, docile, loving, faithful pets that a person could ever hope to find. I feel like God was really on the mark the day he created the faithful, vigilant animal that is the domestic canine. What beautiful, amazing and intelligent creatures they are, they give so much and ask for so little in return. For whatever reason they have chosen to allign themselves with man kind and we are all blessed for the better as a result.

[edit on 9/6/07 by BlackOps719]

That is when the pit bull became popular, but they were here before the advent of the Irish Diaspora. That was the beginning of their hard core fighting career as a breed.
I think that in case of a bug out, the pit bull is perhaps one of the best breeds to take with you, I mean, they can literally do anything.. Of course, if you are more northerly, then you are going to want a pit cross... Mix up a 3/4th pit to a 1/4 shepherd dog, whether German, Belgium, or French, and you have a dynamic combination.

Also, instead of hauling a bunch of heart guard pills around that will spoil, etc.. get a bottle of Ivomectin, which is the active ingredient in heartworm meds.
You would want to get pig Ivo, not cattle Ivo..
Using a 1 ML needle, the dosage is 1 ml per 100 lbs, so you would want to give a line per 2 lbs, depending on how the needle is marked.
Insulin needles are good for dosing. The best part is one bottle will take care of multi dogs for quite a while. The bad news is I forget if it needs to be refrigerated, lolol.


Edited to add, pit bulls, have been a passion/obsession of mine for more than 20 years, most of my life in fact, and while I coincide I don't know everything about them, there is a lot that i DO know.
Again, they are my passion/obsession, and I would never be without one of these dogs, they are simply the best, period.

[edit on 9/13/2007 by FalseParadigm]

Originally posted by FalseParadigm
Edited to add, pit bulls, have been a passion/obsession of mine for more than 20 years, most of my life in fact, and while I coincide I don't know everything about them, there is a lot that i DO know.
Again, they are my passion/obsession, and I would never be without one of these dogs, they are simply the best, period.

They are "defiantly" a majestic breed the Pittie, and I have always thought that they bring out the best in any breed that they are crossed with. I know that they were probably breed for other things, but is it just a co-incidence that they look so damn good? hahahahah

as a previous poster mentioned, definitely a husky. I live in Canada so it would definitely be useful if the dog could survive a little cold weather.

In terms of personality and personal preference, golden retriever or lab... gotta love them.

If you are going for a golden or lab, and this is with ANY breed, you are going to want one from WORKING bloodlines.
No lie, I was doing a temperament test of a litter of labs a couple weeks ago.
One of the tests is a fetch test with a ball of wadded up paper. and of eight puppies only HALF the litter showed any interest and went after the ball of paper, and only TWO actually brought the ball of paper back to me.
This is from a LONG line of SHOW dogs, with very little to no working titles.
On the other hand, about 3 months ago, I temperament tested a little of field trial champion bred labs, and you better believe, I crumbled up the paper and tossed it, those puppies had it back to me before it even left my hand.
These little guys were OOGLY, let me tell you, and if they were the ONLY dog in their class at an AKC show, they would STILL be placed last, but their working instinct was THERE.
Remember, brains over beauty ANY day, esp. in a survival situation.
The same thing goes for ANY of the breeds we have mentioned. If you are in a bug out, you want a dog bred from WORKING bloodlines. These dogs are sharp, smart, and will be a help to you. Pet bred dogs are just that, pets, and though they CAN come around, if they don't have it in them to begin with, it is not going to be easy to train it into them. Like teaching a pit bull to point.
It can be done, it HAS been done, but it was hard doing it.

I wouldn't want to be anywhere cold so hopefully not having to worry about that I'd go with my trusty Rhodesian Ridgeback, Lion Killers.

Yeah, but make sure at LEAST the great grand parents were lion killers, because otherwise you have a large PET. If there are no WORKING bloodlines in three generations, unless you are talking border collie/ASD/AKD, the INSTINCT gets lost, and starts to fade.
And the reason these guys are an exception is that they are so new to the AKC, and I am not even sure if the Kelpie is recognized.. that show breeders haven't yet had a chance to breed the fire out of them. If these question were posed 10 years from now, I would say the same about those breeds.
On a bug out, you are going to need a dog from WORKING bloodlines. That means his parents, grandparents, pr great grandparents were working dogs. In the case of a Rhodie, that means THEY were out there killing lions, and/or working cattle.
For the shepherd breeds, that means they were out there herding, OR protecting. Schutzhund/mondo dog is an acceptable alternative. OBEDIENCE titles is NOT.
You want a dog that can think for itself and not turn around to you and say, well what do I do now boss?
In registered dogs... dogs from UKC trail champions is to be preferred over AKC trial champions.. And you defnailtely want a breed that can not only think for itself, but will listen to you if your idea is better... which kind of rules out the sight hounds.. They ALWAYS think they know better,
You know, I was thinking, one of my BEST dogs was a pit bull/bullmastiff cross on his father's side and a pit/GSD on his mother. I would want Rougie with me on a bug out. He was awesome. Smart, could think on his own, would listen, Not TOO big, but big enough to handle himself.
I had to move and one of my dogs ran away the day before I moved.
I took the rest of them to my new house, a hour away by car.
Three days later, Rougie disappeared.
I get a call from one of my old neighbors a few days later saying Rougie was there, (they had been keeping an eye out for the missing dog). I go back to the old place, and there is was WITH the missing dog. He went from one end of the city to the other and found his pack mate.
THAT is the kind of dog you want with you on a bug out.

My situation X survival partner, Julius... If it is not a German Shepherd Dog, it is just a dog.

[edit on 11/11/2007 by Anubis Kanubis]

If you want a hunting dog you'd be better off with a hound. I'd choose the Rhodesian Ridge Back it's got the ability to track prey by scent or site and has great endurance, intelligence and you can hold then bait larger prey with more than one, you just need to be fit enough to stay close to them when chasing a wounded animal down.

My uncle had a Weimerimer who would go out on the back 40 and bring home rabbits occassionally without being asked or trained to do so. Which means she could probably fend for herself in the way of gathering her own food, as well as the occassional "hey guys, brought a treat home".

I'd have to say a hunting breed of that quality would be a good choice, as well as a close companion like a German Shepard.




[edit on 11-11-2007 by GENERAL EYES]

I have definitely seen some choices similar to mine on here. I have a few animals, but dog-wise I would take both of mine. I have a JRT (Jack Russell Terrier) and an Akita/Husky Mix.

The JRT is very outgoing and nice towards people, but a real Alpha with other dogs. She's not a bully, but if a dog lays a paw on her back, she's putting that dog down quick. Regardless though, she is extremely loyal, and protective of my family and I, and always maintains a vigilance at the door whenever one of us is out. No one ever gets by my house without her letting me know what is up. She can be in a dead sleep, and still will jump up ready for action at the slightest askew noise. Hunting wise she is amazing. Some JRTs supposedly need training to hunt Fox, but NOT her. I have a resident fox nearby, and when she smells it (almost everyday) she bolts down the scent trail. One time while letting her follow the trail, we came into a huge patch of thorns and underbrush which I couldn't make it under. I told her "hey, I can't make that, find another way". Sure enough, she backtracked 10 feet, picked up a point, and found an alternative route. She is also VERY protective of "our" Akita/Husky Puppy. At the park some dog was harassing the Akita/Husky, who being a puppy did snap back at the dog, but without much conviction. My JRT watched for a minute to try and let the puppy handle her own situation, but after a minute realized it was too much for the puppy. Out of nowhere, my JRT came flying up and over the puppy and slammed her side into the other dog's head, knocking the other dog back, then hit a striking pose (legs out wide, body low, head facing upwards towards opponents throat) with her teeth out snarling. To say the least, the other dog (which had harassed dogs all day), never let another bark out the rest of the time there. Some might say a JRT doesn't have the stopping power towards a person, but that is a moot point since they are still an aggressive canine with a fearless attitude. They are smart enough to know where an opponents vulnerable spot is. I have seen three cases of JRTs protecting their owners against humans, and in all three cases they went straight for the genitals. In two cases they castrated the male attacker, and in the one they bit the male attackers member right off and spit it out.

Lol I remember one funny story, some lady had just divorced her ex-husband. She was at her next-door neighbors house discussing the divorce, when from next door there erupted a loud scream. She ran over, and there was her ex sitting in a chair. The woman's JRT was latched to the guy's privates, and his arms were straight up in the air. He had come into the house uninvited to "retrieve" some items, and the dog attacked him knowing he wasn't supposed to be there. When the lady asked why he had his hands straight up in the air, he replied "Because everytime I start to lower them, the dog bites down harder. The lower they get, the harder he clamps down".

My Akita/Husky is a freaking power horse. She can pull me down the street no problem, and she's only 6 months old, and about 40 lbs. Trying to hold her back when a strange dog enters my yard is like trying to tame a wild Mustang. She DOES listen though, as I have trained her, and still am training her. When she's old enough I am training her for sled pulling (only for commands, because she already loves to pull and run). I have to wait for her to fully grow before I have her run and pull loads, as I don't want to wreck her joints.

I have a cat too, and let's just say that you're better off facing my two dogs than the cat. She was born on the streets as a kitten, and I've known her since then. In her prime, she could have taken on a wild Bobcat no joke. Everyone I know is scared of her, and I'm talking about big tough fellas that swore " no little punk cat is gonna scare me". Picture a 6'4" 230lbs. Football player from the Bronx, NY being scared of a cat, and you have the literal picture. One time a friend just playing around slapped me on the head, and she chased 'em all the way up the stairs, and out of the house. She loves attention, and enjoys company, but don't push your luck with her. Before I came into posession of my two current dogs, my cat acted like a dog, and would always watch at the door, and approach it if anyone knocked or rang the doorbell.

Bottom line, especially to everyone worrying about "protection training" and "schutzhund", you don't need that garbage. It ALL comes down to how you raise your pet, and how much love you show them. If you are willing to give your life for your pet, they pick up on that emotion, and are more than willing to do the same for you.

On a side note, I've also had a Boston Terrier Mix, and a Military Trained Quebec Husky. The Boston whooped a GSD (German Shepherd Dog) that had a week earlier given my friend's dog 70 stitches. The Military Trained Husky did things no natural dog should have been capable of. I have a deep affinity for all of these friends, as ALL of them would have gladly given their lives for my family and I. I would undoubtedly do the very same for them.



[edit on 11-17-2007 by TheAgentNineteen]

[edit on 11-17-2007 by TheAgentNineteen]

reply to post by Anubis Kanubis


Beautiful animal my friend!!

That guy will most definately serve you well....excellent choice. I am getting a new GSD pup to break in the new year and I am excited to say the least. Congratulations on the new addition to your family

Bottom line, especially to everyone worrying about "protection training" and "schutzhund", you don't need that garbage.

I have to respectfully disagree on this point. Not everyone needs a shutzhund trained dog and not all dogs can handle the training. Untrained dogs may very well do an adequate job protecting you and your family.

BUUUUUT....
A trained dog will know better how to react to certian situations and will be more comfortable in such situations.

They are just like people...when all else fails they will react just as they have been trained...

"The Military Trained Husky did things no natural dog should have been capable of."

Ask yourself why....you already know the answer. It is because of the way he was trained.

I will agree with you about showing the dog love and have him be a part of the "pack" but to have a dog that is going to protect the family and survive to do it again another day....you increase his odd 10 fold by training him.

I am no dog training expert by any means but I spent several years shutzhund training my dobie and helped train several sheppards...I dont like GSD's but that is a personal pref. If they have tails and long hair...I dont want them. The point is that a dog trained to bite will do so in a controlled manor. He is less likely to hurt an innocent person than a dog that is not trained.

Just like the military...train as you fight and when all hell breaks loose and you're under pressure, what do ya do?...you always fall back on your training

I also think the Belgian Malinois would be the best. My dog Nala was Malinois, she passed away this summer....She was a machine...part mountain goat, part wolf, part cuddle bunny. I had no idea how incredible Malinois were, I rescued her from a bad situation when she was 6mo. old not really knowing anything about her. Through out the ten years she lived with me she always kept me amazed! Here is a pic with me and her from a few years back, just look at her, you can tell she would have killed for me! =)

Now, Dogs are a very good idea to me. Though, I suggest more than one so that you have a better chance of hunting and if one was killed. Best for a male and female of the same breed. Dogs are a good asset to a Situation X because they provide warmth and company in times that you may even lose your sanity. They truly are a best friend and a great tool in survival really. I suggest they at least be a couple of years old, so that they are not a puppy that is hyper and would probably run off towards an officer with a loaded gun.
The canine you choose is another story. Personally, I would go for a German Sheppard. They are very smart, great hunter, and loyal. Though, it depends of which quality you are looking for. Argentinian Hunting Dogs are quite the killers as in this video. If you are looking for a killer that would catch big game and even take down a few intruders, this might be the one, though I personally would think a ruthless dog would even take you down if it felt threatened. In times of hunger, it may turn towards you.

www.metacafe.com...

For a good pure bred dog, it will snatch a lot of money from your pocket, though it would be worth it in the end. Down in Birmingham, I heard my father talk about half-bred dogs, that were bred with wolves. Hard to believe, but they do have some half-wolf pups out there, Im not sure of their qualities, but of course you will know they will have survival instincts and may find a shelter if you are lost, following their basic instincts rather than depending on you as their owner and provider. Or even one of the biggest breeds, the Irish Wolfhound, though Im not sure how much or where you would find one. Other than those, a Husky would be another nice choice, loyal and fuzzy warm.

Besides dogs, maybe a small animal would be nice. My dad use to own a Ferret, they used it for hunting rabbits. It would go through a hole and travel out and kill a rabbit, then bring it back to them. I'm not sure if their training is hard, though their personality can be easily manipulated. If you cuddle them, and spoil them too much, they will just become like lazy cats, only coming to you for food then going off when they are done, not providing a service really. If you train them well, I believe they be a great asset to survival, they wont take much food, and they will bring back more.

I personally like the blue heeler. They're common here in Texas, so they're well adapted to this environment. They're cowdogs, but you can teach them to do just about anything, very smart dogs and pretty too.