Dogs...good or bad idea?

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posted on Aug, 6 2007 @ 04:36 PM
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I will kind of go off the chart here and pick a dog that no one is talking about but one that I have experience with - the Doberman Pinscher. If you own a couple of these dogs no one is going to mess with you.

These dogs are gentle, loving, super intelligent, super loyal, and have amazing physical abilities. They will protect property, children, and pretty much anything else you want.

I have a story about how great these dogs are at protecting your stuff. Friends of ours had one a long time ago before us. It was a great dog, very friendly and fun. Their house was out in the country and sometimes they would leave the house and not even shut the front door. Just leave the screen door closed and the dog inside the house. If we happened to go over while my friends were gone we could talk to the dog through the screen door and she would wage her tail and jump around excited to see us. BUT if we started to open up the screen door to come inside the dogs personality would change instantly. It was like she was letting us know, I like you and I'm glad you are here but the masters of the house are not home right now so you are not allowed inside.

I have owned a lot of different dogs. These are the most intelligent dogs I have ever seen. I can give my dogs just about any type of brain teaser challenge and they will figure it out, especially if there is a reward of food involved.


These dogs were so smart and tough that they fought with the US marines in WWII. They were called Marine Devildogs. www.doberman.ws...



History

Dobermann was a tax collector who frequently traveled through many bandit-infested areas, and needed a protection dog to guard him in any situation that might arise. He set out to breed a new type of dog that, in his opinion, would be the perfect combination of strength, loyalty, intelligence, and ferocity.

en.wikipedia.org...




Temperament

Doberman Pinschers are, in general, a gentle, loyal, loving, and highly intelligent breed. Although there is variation in temperament, a typical pet Doberman attacks only if it believes that it, its property, or its family are in danger. According to the US Centers for Disease Control, the Doberman Pinscher is less frequently involved in attacks on humans resulting in fatalities than several other dog breeds such as pit bull-type dogs, German Shepherd Dogs, Rottweilers and Alaskan Malamutes.[7] Those familiar with the breed consider well-bred and properly socialized Doberman Pinschers to be excellent pets and companions, suitable for families with other dog breeds, excellent with young children, and even cats. The modern Doberman Pinscher is well known as a loyal and devoted family member.

The Doberman Pinscher has been used as a protection and guard dog, due to its intelligence, loyalty, and ability to physically challenge human aggressors. Doberman Pinschers were once commonly used in police work and in the military. The breed was used extensively by the U.S. Marines in World War II, and 25 Marine War Dogs died in the Battle of Guam in 1944: there is a memorial in Guam in honor of these Doberman Pinschers.[8] In these roles, they inspire fear. They are often stereotyped in such roles in movies (where they are trained to exhibit seemingly "aggressive" behavior), and video games, consequently many people are afraid of the breed. A related problem is the misunderstanding of their legitimate roles; because guard dogs are trained to neutralize unwelcome intruders, many people mistakenly believe that Doberman Pinschers are vicious.[9]

en.wikipedia.org...





[edit on 6-8-2007 by zerotime]




posted on Aug, 6 2007 @ 04:54 PM
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It's all a matter of preference. Though some breeds are chosen over other for certain functions, most breeds are all trainable and highly intelligent. I've trained several mutts and they learned as well as any pure breed that I've trained.

Barking and drawing attention shouldn't be a complication either if you know how to train. Dogs will instinctively alert their master when they feel there is danger or it is appropriate. In the same regard they will remain silent in order to hunt or if trained to be remain silent.

The canines value outweighs the responsibility of having to feed it in a survival situation. Canines are natural hunters/scavengers. More than likely if there's not enough to go around, they will find their own food and they don't require a large amount (contrary to many owner's feeding habits).

Dogs are an invaluable resource in a survival situation and they would more than likely save your life by hunting and alerting you when danger is afoot, rather than draw threats, or complicate food shortages.

My choice would be a Black Lab or Golden Retriever.



posted on Aug, 6 2007 @ 05:18 PM
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Blackops,

The answer to which breed should you choose is really limited to a few breeds. However, you should have a trained dog. Just any dog won't be a help but a hindrance. The dog should be trained in schutzhund at a minimum. All dogs should be trained in schutzhund if they are capable. I will list some helpful links:
www.germanshepherddog.com
www.dvgamerica.com
www.awdf.net

The following breeds are good:
Working line german shepherd
Malinois
Schnauzer
Doberman Pinscher
Rottweiler
Bulldog

It is simply a fact that these dogs have shown themselves to be highly trainable and lend themselves well to wartime or survival uses.



posted on Aug, 6 2007 @ 07:35 PM
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This is a great thread and ill try to keep this short. I spend 24 hours a day with dogs. I work with specialist dogs for a living. Due to my work, one of my guys is a German Shepherd.

IMO Schutzhund trained GSD(germanshepherddog) are an ideal situation X dog. It is arguably in a league of its own when you talk about a dog you would want in a situation X. Even among working breeds.

However, my vote would go to The Australian Cattle Dog. It is roughly a cross between Australian kelpie, the dingo, and the smooth collie. They have the stamina to withstand extremes of temperature and the resourcefulness to forage and to feed itself on an omnivorous diet like a wild dog.

The breed's strong work ethic rivals the GSD, but their intelligence is above and beyond anyother dog I'am aware of. They are simply amazing.

Check out this video of "skidboot". This is the NORM I have witnessed with Australian Cattle Dogs. In the end though, the key is always the right owner.


Google Video Link


[edit on 6-8-2007 by METACOMET]



posted on Aug, 6 2007 @ 08:11 PM
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Originally posted by Yarcofin
You only really need to keep them alive to the point you are willing to kill "man's best friend", your family pet, and eat it. That could be somewhat emotional.




This question is rather climate specific. A husky would fare poorly in a high desert scenario. A greyhound would be useless in the freezing tundra. Reverse the scenarios though and Bingo. That was the name of the farmer's dog. B-I-N-G-O was his name-o.



posted on Aug, 6 2007 @ 08:12 PM
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Another excellent choice would be a MAREMMA SHEEPDOG

Maremmas are self sufficient and are able to hunt for food (rabbits) - No need for extra food storage for the hungry pooch!

They are used here in Australia to protect sheep (+property) and doing a very good job .

The following is from Vladimir Peniakoff's book entitled Popski's Private Army:




One group of Italian soldiers and their Maremma sheepdog who had been captured by the Allies. Six German shepherds were left to guard the prisoners. In the morning, when the Allies came to check on their prisoners, they found that the Italians had escaped- leaving behind their Maremma. He was found lying quitely at the entrance to the pen and the six German shepherds were dead





From the Imperial War Museum of London come two stories. The first is about the British Army's Afrika Corps who found that the standard German shepherd dogs were useless at protecting their supply dumps from the Arabs. Once Italian settlers in Libya introduced Maremmas to the Corps their troubles were at an end. The second story is about Maremmas who were seconded into the British Army. They had been introduced to the the English when the Italians had joined the Allies. These dogs were able to sense the presence of German troops and had an ingenious way of letting their handlers know that the Germans were around. Instead of barking, a Maremma would nudge the handler with its nose. These dogs saved many lives!


I'm not sure how I can train my Maremma Bitch to nudge when strangers are around because she can be very noisy
and this is not a wanted behavior in a survival situation.



posted on Aug, 6 2007 @ 08:57 PM
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Because of where I live, I would probably keep dogs around primarily as a food source. A pack of dogs can readily live in destroyed urban environments and survive by scavenging for food. Dogs can be bred in captivity, produce large numbers of offspring, mature to adulthood in a relatively short time, and are already domesticated. Animals such as dogs would become the primary source of protein for urban and suburban dwellers. In a major upsetting of society, those who live in a developed region of the country will have to begin to think of dogs as "city cows" or they are going to starve to death.

Things would be different if I lived in a more desolate area or in an area with those godless killing machines known as bears. Otherwise, there is very little that can justify keeping a dog that would require not only your protection but a portion of your food and water.

Jon

[edit on 8.6.2007 by Voxel]



posted on Aug, 6 2007 @ 09:08 PM
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Originally posted by HooHaa
The best dog I've owned and would recommend would be the mutt. Get a decent sized animal with an even temperament and you've got a winner. They are smart, loyal and protective. Due to inbreeding of the pedigree's the mutt has the most potential to be well rounded and intelligent of all the other breeds out there.

I guess it boils down to personal preference and the location you plan on being stranded in. In over all versatility the mutt is the way I'd have to go. I only hope I don't find myself in a position to have to find out for myself. BTW the German Shepard has the highest record of biting and turning on its owner. The mastiff has been in the news for killing a woman in an apartment building. I wouldn't feel comfortable having ether one of those breeds. The husky is another temperamental beast known to bite people. As far as hybrids, those scare the hell out of me. A friend of mine had one and it was ferocious along as being one of the biggest dam dogs ive ever seen.




Definately there is much to be said about the courage, the disposition and the loyalty of a plain old mutt. I have owned many dogs, and the one who was smartest and head and shoulders above all others was a Shep/Lab mix. The dog was intelligent beyond normal reasoning. He could sense my every mood, he could learn tricks and demands within minutes of being shown what to do. He was protective of our home but docile and loving with children. He had the heart of a clown and loved loved loved to play (especially frisbee)!! I doubt I could ever ask for a better companion animal whether in survival mode or not .
Great dogs.



posted on Aug, 6 2007 @ 09:12 PM
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Originally posted by Voxel
Because of where I live, I would probably keep dogs around primarily as a food source. A pack of dogs can readily live in destroyed urban environments and survive by scavenging for food. Dogs breed often, produce large numbers of offspring, and mature to adulthood in a relatively short time. Animals such as dogs would become the primary source of protein for urban and suburban dwellers. In a major upsetting of society, those who live in a developed region of the country will have to begin to think of dogs as "city cows" or they are going to starve to death.

Things would be different if I lived in a more desolate area or in an area with those godless killing machines known as bears. Otherwise, there is very little that can justify keeping a dog that would require not only your protection but a portion of your food and water.

Jon



Careful not to BECOME dinner for that same pack of dogs...they may not take kindly to your idea.

The thought of killing or eating a dog simply makes me wretch. In my own mind it would almost equate to cannibalism on my list of do's or dont's. I suppose if it came down to life and death I may consider it, but only then and after I have exhausted every other option. Just my personal opinion of course, but to me it is a sickening notion.



posted on Aug, 6 2007 @ 09:20 PM
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I would get an Irish wolfhound..."Gentle when stroked. Fierce when provoked"
They don't make very good guard dogs, since they tend to regard everyone as a friend, but they're excellent hunters.



posted on Aug, 6 2007 @ 09:59 PM
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Originally posted by BlackOps719
Careful not to BECOME dinner for that same pack of dogs...they may not take kindly to your idea.

Trust me, we didn't become the dominate form of life on earth and dogs didn't become, literally, our lapdogs because they pose a threat to us. Whether it is a stick, rock, knife, or gun we are vastly more capable hunters and killers. Even the largest of pack of dogs would be dwarfed by the size of a pack of people (remember people are pack animals too.)


The thought of killing or eating a dog simply makes me wretch.


That is the thing though; you are thinking about it from a position of comfort. Think about the results of a real catastrophic social upheaval. In any urban or suburban area, your choices for food are minimal. Sure you can try to catch squirrels or maybe a rabbit or two. If you are lucky you'll eat for a few days after the event before they would be difficult to find. Your only real options are to either eat dogs (cats too but they are a lot harder to catch) or eat human beings. Which is more palatable to you?

Dogs would also be the easiest thing to catch because for the first few weeks dogs will naturally seek out people for protection. I know it isn't nice to think about, but when you are starving you will gladly lure a dog with the old "C'mere boy. C'mon." whilst holding a large rock behind your back.

Jon

[edit on 8.6.2007 by Voxel]



posted on Aug, 6 2007 @ 10:45 PM
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I fly the bush country and I've known hundreds of people who live out there and have dogs. Know what they feed them? Usually the cheapest, quality dogfood they can find. Dogs need to be fed, they don't forage. Rarely, their owners catch enough fish so they can feed their dogs at least partially a fish diet which is ideal for the dog. The most practical use for a dog besides companionship is to allert you when a bear is around and possible to decoy off the bear if it decides to charge (usually because of cubs or a kill it is eating). Not for the faint of heart? A young lady was saved from a charging sow by her aging doxy just last week not 10 miles from here. And no, sorry to say, the doxy didn't survive. By what a way to go saving your owner!



posted on Aug, 6 2007 @ 10:51 PM
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I'd have to go with my greyhounds, of course. They'll bring me rabbits for stew everyday! I just hope they bring enough to keep up with their high metabolism.

My second choice is a golden retriever, just because I like them so much. A golden retriever is truly man's best friend. Plus they'll retrieve all of the rabbits that my dumb greyhounds catch and are too stupid to bring back to me. In fact, when my greyhounds caught rabbits, my golden retriever would run up and take it out of their mouth and bring it to me. Hopefully they can repeat this in the wild and not just in my backyard.



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 08:09 AM
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I'm gonna have to second the Doberman suggestion. We had several growing up and my last one named LOKI was a beautiful red dobbie. Shortly after I got him I moved to germany and was on a walk with him in the country and out of nowhere ran across a kennel club. It was a german shepard Schutzhund club. I watched for a while before the german noticed me and my dog and several of them came to talk to me. I didnt know it then but Dobermans are still a rarity still in there. Seems most of them were killed in WWII.
After these people looked at Loki (he was a beautiful speciman of a dobbie) they invited me to join their club and train my dog. I had the only non german shepard in the club...
3 yrs training the guy and all I can say is WOW. The reasoning the dog had was amazing...super intelligent and athletic as hell. I ran him about 6 miles a day then we would bike sometimes up to 10...they are machines.

only down side to them is their inability to stand the cold for long periods of time.

The american Bulldog comes in a close second and the boxer 3rd....the American Bulldog is a very interesting breed of dog...probally rivals the dobbie...but it doesnt suprise me the picks that everyone has made.

the key is to have a well trained dog...then almost any(even a real poodle) would do just fine.

I would never own a dog that couldnt earn his keep and never will.

[edit on 7-8-2007 by kaferwerks]



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 07:05 PM
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well said kaferwerks. The key is a trained dog!

[edit on 7-8-2007 by arius]



posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 01:03 AM
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The american Bulldog comes in a close second and the boxer 3rd....the American Bulldog is a very interesting breed of dog...probally rivals the dobbie...but it doesnt suprise me the picks that everyone has made.



That is interesting that you mention the American Bulldog. I asked this same question to a co worker of mine today and tha was his choice, hands down. These dogs are LARGE....he showed a picture of his two male Bullys and they look like giant Pitbulls. Anyone know how intelligent these dogs are? They sort of remind me of a Boxer as well, which my brother happens to own one, and honestly that dog just isnt very bright....lets just say he loves string



posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 07:46 AM
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I have a boxer black lap mix. She was originally gotten to be trained as a S&R dog but she got hit by a truck while chasing my son down. She broke her front right paw and blew her hip out of joint, as well as knocked a tooth out. She survived but her career as a S&R K9 was over.
She has a great nose she is infanitly trainable and very protective of the family. She will not bark in-less told to guard. She is an awesome hunter. I will post a link to the test I use on every puppy candidate. S&R dogs must meat certain critiera witch lucky for us also are good for survival. If your going to look for a dog to be a survival buddy follow the test not the breed. As breeds go my dog is a awesome mix. I'm 165 pounds I lay down on the floor she pulls me across the living room floor with her rope toy. The muscles come from the boxer. Her intelligence in training come from the lab. Her mother was full blooded papered champion hunter. her father is also papered.
Full bloods are only good for show not real life. The full bloods tend to be very flacky, not what you want while out on the trail. JUST MY OPINION



posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 10:02 AM
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Well, I've currently got two dogs, one is a Border Collie, the other is a mutt that might be part Corgi.

The Border Collie is, IMHO, probably the perfect Situation X Dog. It's a work-dog, so it's been bred hundreds of years for WORK rathr than looks (hence why there's such a wide variation in their looks). This also tends to make for a healthier overall dog. They're one of the most intelligent breeds, have high-energy (but generally only bark to communicate), and double-coats, which can be a real asset in the wintertime. They're great at herding, hunting, guarding, are very loyal, gentle, and good with kids.

Our part-Corgi mutt is dumber than a sack of bricks, but extremely fast, and an extremely good bird-dog. She's actually managed to dart out the back door, run across our back yard, leap into the air, and catch birds before they take off. Yeah, she's that fast. But very....very dumb. She might opt, instead of the flock of tastybirds, to go after a butterfly, a waving fern branch, or perhaps a rock. She can't even make it through one round of fetch without forgetting what she was doing and getting distracted.

So, in Sit-X, we'd probably just eat the Corgi. Just kidding. Sorta. But I would entrust my family to the Border Collie if I could only choose one dog.

Oh, a side note about German Shepherds. Be very careful as they get older. Because of the inbreeding and breeding for agression, purebred German Shepherds will, often late in life, develop the canine equivolent of Alzheimer's, and attack their owners, thinking them a stranger. It's very sad. Several people I know had to put their GS's down once they hit around 11 or 12.



posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 12:13 PM
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To the OP this is an excellent thread giving the situation-x type discussions a new angle. I really have more of a question than anything else as it seems you guys really know your stuff. One of my favourite breeds is the Alsation. I doubt the alsation would be the dog I'd choose for this situation, but I'd love to know what you guys think about the overall usefulness of the alsation - pros and cons.



posted on Aug, 9 2007 @ 10:43 AM
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Yes this is a good thread and a lot of you have some good thoughts. There are so many different dogs out there now, it amazes me what they are doing to dogs. (off topic) I have grown up around all kinds of dogs big and small. The best dog I have ever owned was a lab mix. He was a big, black dog and I have never encountered a smarter dog in my life. He is always watching and he can swim for hours. He even saved a boy from drowning when he was only a year old. He is a hunter and can grab a duck if you turn your head for a second. He is over a hundred pounds and is fast. We never found what he was mixed with but he was darned smart. I do think a mutt would be a good choice. Although in the desert or hot, dry conditions they might not do so well. It is definately a tough decision. I would prefer to have my lab mutt or my husky, wolf mutt with me. Even if it is just for morale support, they always keep me alert when alone in the mountains.

[edit on 9-8-2007 by paigcal]





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