$$$ for the one who can prove gods existence

Hehe! Good catch there- I remember writing 'him' and thinking I might catch some junk for it. By no means do I think he is any one sex, or even belongs in a catagory of 'sex', but sometimes it just makes it easier to say 'he'. Yeah, I am a womwn and my fav. poly sci teacher would scream if she knew I had wrote that, but I didnt want to divulge into another tangent of the original topic- Sorry.

And, yes, I am quite delusional at times, but I usually try to refrain from trying to make any points or even hold a conversation whilst in this mental state. When I said I found Jesus, and do find him everywhere, I mean it. And, trust me, I have tryed avoiding this obvious presence for many, many years because I did not want to believe it. And still, I do not necissarily 'look' for God anywhere, but I cannot deny him anymore when he is quite obviously there.

And, I thank you for even reading enough into my beleifs to question them! Exploring your ideas and responses to mine are what helps me feel more confident in who I am, and what I believe, and often helping me figure out beliefs I have that I never really knew were there.

talk about a hollow empty offer. so how is one supposed to prove the existence of god? a photo ?? a video interview with him ? his bronzed booties from childhood ?? mankind has been trying to prove the boobs existence since time began with no luck and now with your junk offer we are supposed to just suddenly be able to find the proof ?? YAWN !

your offer is totally useless and worthless and a waste of time.

You're not supposed to prove him; this is an idiot thread.

God was not mean to have scientific evidence.
Otherwise we would not need Faith.
And without Faith, God does not exist.

See the loop?

Call it a cheap way out if you will, though you're looking at the idea wrong anyway.

You're asking for proof of the most grandiose, debated entity in the universe.

We can't use Faith. Because you say so.
We can't use Science, because we're not that advanced.
We can't use Logic, because that runs both ways.

Again, idiot topic by idiot creator who fails grammar.

Leave it alone.

God is purely a faith issue. The people who believe in a god don't need anyone to prove it to them. and the people that don't believe in god just don't believe in god and thats it. The only thing I don't like about religion is the people who try to force it on you.

William Hatcher, a mathematician at McGill until his death in 2005, provided a logical proof of the existence of God:

Axioms:

(from www.onecountry.org... )

1) Everything in the universe is either preceded by a cause or else contains within itself a sufficient reason for its existence.

2) For every system or composite phenomenon, any cause for the system is also a cause for every part of the system. (Every material thing, except possibly the elementary particles of quantum physics, is composite.)

3) The existence of a whole system cannot precede the existence of its components (or, he writes, "the constitution of a whole obviously supposes and depends upon the prior or simultaneous existence of its components.")

Proof:

(from www.onecountry.org...)

Let A ® B represent "A is a cause of B"
Let A Ì B represent "A is a subsystem of B"
Let A ¹ B represent "A is different from B"

Let V be the collection (universe) of all existing entities. Since V is composite it cannot be self-caused (see above) and so must have a cause G (different fromV itself). Thus, G ® V, G ¹ V Moreover, every existing phenomenon A is either an entity, and thus a component of V, or else a system all of whose components are in V -- in which case A is a subsystem of V. Thus, G is either a component or a subsystem of V. But, in either case, G ® G by the potency principle. Thus, G is self-caused and hence noncomposite (no composite can be self-caused as shown above). Finally, since G ® V and every phenomenon A is a part of V then by the potency principle, G is a universal cause (the cause of every existing phenomenon, including itself).

Finally, we show that G is the only uncaused phenomenon, for suppose there is another such phenomenon G'. Then G ® G' (since G is a universal cause). But since G' is self-caused it cannot be other-caused by the principle of sufficient reason. Thus, G = G' and the uniqueness of G is established.

Q.E.D.

I'd like payment in gold bullion, one ounce post-1983 Maple Leafs; or 100 ounce silver bars, JM only. Thanks.

Edit: sorry, the symbols were undefined and incorrect in the first version!


[edit on 8-8-2007 by green dog]

[edit on 8-8-2007 by green dog]

i don't know if this is proof of god, but I sure like this guy's vision of what god is like. its a free eBook that's outlines a cosmology and theology of light, equality, and oneness. no gender, no insanity, just, um, personal and collective responsibility.

www.avatarpublication.com...

I'm not sure if I can post this link here. but the book is a free download.if there's a problem, I could always download the book and upload it to the site.

o man you guys needed proof?!?!? y didint you say something?i kick it with god every other sunday for dinner up in heaven.ill bring my camera next time i go and bring the video back LMAO no seriosuley though good post i mean im not one to say the possibilities of some sort of high power is out there(or in all of us)but theres def no proof as of rite now..so kudo's if what you were tryina do was free some people from the trainwreck that is organized religion,spirituality is great but what is mainstrem religion accept mild mannerd (fot the most part)publically acceptable cults?


[edit on 9-8-2007 by future flow]

Dude,
Trying to prove God exists, is like trying to prove any model of physics is Ultimate Objective truth.

It can't be done. Come up with Newtonian Physics, and Bhor will be right around the corner to say "not so fast".

This is why there are soooo many different string theories... Ultimate truth cannot be proved.

Quote by I See You:

$$$ for the one who can prove gods existence

I will put up some hard earned cash and if anyone else is willing to do the same to the person who gives undeniable proof that god exists. Proof that would make all non believers believe and close the case of gods existence forever. Any takers?

Must be hardcore undeniable proof and be along the lines of taught religions.

Quote by thisnamenotinuse from another thread:

If there is a supreme being, it can neither be found nor discussed within a framework such as logic because that would by its very definition make logic the new god and the concept of a supreme being subordinate to that logic (ie, we would have an obvious contradiction in terms: how can anything be logically identified as supreme if it can be well contained by logic which itself is admittedly less than supreme?).

Logic is spiritual money: you can buy anything with it these days, even unbelief.

Believing in God is really not the question: everyone believes there is a God. The question is, what do we do with this God that we believe in?

The answer, buy him out using money.

Buy him out using logic, science, academia, appeal to religious abuse statistics or history's religious bad breath and turn a blind eye to man's inhumanity to man outside of religious circles.

Buy him out! He'll go away. Just ask Judas!

Quote by amideluded from this thread:

How real is this offer; I have hardcore proof!

If your offer is indeed for real, here's what I need from you in order to deliver what I have.

1. An escrow account with at least 32,000 dollars.
2. A reliable third party audit firm to verify the account is opened and funded.
3. A contract that states that if the proof I provide is 'proof enough" for a panel of 12 judges (6 picked by you, 6 picked by mean)

We will both split the cost for the auditing firm, but if the judges say my proof is "proof enough", then you have to pay my attorney's fee. Of course, if the judges do not unanimously agree that my proof is "proof enough", then I agree to pay your attorney's fee.

If we have a deal, let me know once you've opened the account, and funded it to the minimum I am asking for. I'll provide you with a number for my attorneys. They'll review the contract, while we each find 6 judges.

Ain't God amazing?



[edit on 9-8-2007 by thisnamenotinuse]

Originally posted by I See You
I will put up some hard earned cash and if anyone else is willing to do the same to the person who gives undeniable proof that god exists. Proof that would make all non believers believe and close the case of gods existence forever. Any takers?

Must be hardcore undeniable proof and be along the lines of taught religions.

I can prove God exists...

Zues the God of Lightning. Just look at the evidence. Lightning. Which causes thunder. Lightning is also scientifically backed and Everyone around the world sees it and knows it exists... How can there not be a God of Lightning? KaBOOM!!! BOOM SHAKALAKA!!!

But really i think the question you really need to ask is: Is reality actually real? What is reality? Because really everything that ... "exists" is actually popping in and out of existance...... and is actually every probable where, and nowhere at the same time. Muhahahahhahha

Hell. Gods (Zues) probably popping in and out of existance too...

He is the reality; the one without a second. He is pure consciousness, free from any taint. He is tranquiliity itself. He has neither beginning nor end. He does not change. He is joy forever.

He transcends the appearance of the manifold. He is eternal, for ever beyond reach of pain, not to be divideded, no to be measured, without form, without name, undifferentiated, immutable. He shines with His own light. He is everything that can be experienced in this universe.

The illumined seers know Him as the ettermost reality, infininte, absolute, without parts; the pure consciousness. In Him they find that knower, knowledge, and known have become one.

They know Him as the reality which can neither be cast aside nor grasped. They know Him immeasurable, beginningless, endless, supreme in glory.

They realize the truth.

I am

Sri Oracle

(that was Shankara)

[edit on 9-8-2007 by Sri Oracle]

You can pick up clay from a river bottom and fashion it into a bowl.

You can dry the bowl in the sun, then later eat from it...

But is it not just still essentially a blob of river clay?

...as the bowl is still clay, so too are all of the manifold things which we have placed names upon still God.

Is not all essentially a blob of God; fashioned and named?

I am,

Sri Oracle (but still essentially Brahman)

Originally posted by stove167
God is purely a faith issue. The people who believe in a god don't need anyone to prove it to them. and the people that don't believe in god just don't believe in god and thats it. The only thing I don't like about religion is the people who try to force it on you.

i don't believe this. God is as provable as gravity. actualy, God and gravity are a lot alike. Nobody's ever seen them, nobody has a good theory, we just point to physical events as proof. Fact is though, nobody has actually seen gravity or even understands how its works. gravity is defined as an invisible force yet the "rational" people have no problem believing in that "invisible force" despite the fact that its total conjecture.

assume defensive stance

as for a definition of god, i like

GOD=CONSCIOUSNESS=LIGHT=ENERGY=MATTER

Originally posted by jimjamjerry

Originally posted by stove167
God is purely a faith issue. The people who believe in a god don't need anyone to prove it to them. and the people that don't believe in god just don't believe in god and thats it. The only thing I don't like about religion is the people who try to force it on you.

i don't believe this. God is as provable as gravity. actualy, God and gravity are a lot alike. Nobody's ever seen them, nobody has a good theory, we just point to physical events as proof. Fact is though, nobody has actually seen gravity or even understands how its works. gravity is defined as an invisible force yet the "rational" people have no problem believing in that "invisible force" despite the fact that its total conjecture.

assume defensive stance

as for a definition of god, i like

GOD=CONSCIOUSNESS=LIGHT=ENERGY=MATTER

Well said, my friend! I love the God-Gravity metaphor. I think that Stove has a point in that those who believe need no proof. It's just somewhat upsetting that, as in your example, we all believe that 'what goes up must come down', yet when we witness our own miracles of God within our lives, the majority of us like to chock it up to 'coincidence'.

My challenge to you; man of $$$:

Go to the river bank with the clothes on your back and three days rations of fresh fruit and spring water. Bring a copy of this post and nothing else. Find a place you where you can be alone.

Be aware of each breath and meditate upon the phrase "I AM" constantly for those three days. Whenever you get away from I AM, come back to it in thought. Fall asleep to the reverberation of the resonant aummmm.

Think of nothing else while you are there, but before you leave bring back a sample of rock or clay

Hold that sample in your left hand; typing one handed with your right...

Then try to prove to me that God does not exist.

I am shaman. May you see the Light.

So mote it be.

Baruch Atoh Adonai Elohenu Mehloch Aholum

Narasimha Ta Va Da So Hum
Narasimha Ta Va Da So Hum
Narasimha Ta Va Da So Hum

Holding river clay in my left hand...

I am,

Sri Oracle

Originally posted by nowayreally

Originally posted by jimjamjerry
as for a definition of god, i like

GOD=CONSCIOUSNESS=LIGHT=ENERGY=MATTER

Well said, my friend! I love the God-Gravity metaphor. I think that Stove has a point in that those who believe need no proof. It's just somewhat upsetting that, as in your example, we all believe that 'what goes up must come down', yet when we witness our own miracles of God within our lives, the majority of us like to chock it up to 'coincidence'.

well i'm a scientist by training and I'm a a firm believer in empirical testing and all that, but as someone whose done more than just the second year methods class, i know the limitations of scientific methodology and I recognize that there is as dogma in science as there is in religion/spirituality. personally, i think science has the best explanaton for "what goes up" as anybody right now, but when it comes to spirituality, scientists are about as blocked and repressed as you can get.

i base my spirituality, like I base my science, on personal experience. i did some chakra stuff a little while ago that totally blew me away. the phenomenon and manifestations, the synchronicities and such, just couldn't be explained within an materialist framework so I started exploring and looking for answers that "made sense and were rational." Personally I think I can probably prove to most people that chakras exist, and that there are more things in heaven and earth that are dreamed of by "normal" people, but you have to start with a non-dogmatic stance. otherwise, the dogmas of science and religion just get in the way.

Lagalizer, if a photon can be on both sides of the universe at the same time, why couldn't a God be. You would believe matter of such small things can do this, but no matter what, you refuse to just consider maybe that there is someone controlling the whole multiverse. The multiverse is real. The bible, quran, and mostly all religions teach of it coded in the "layers" of heaven and hell.

Oh yea, religion brought us out of the dark ages, not secularism. Who do you think saved up all those old documents in the dark ages, the priests. even if they did wipe off the text on some, they left enough there so that modern science can see it.

I've got a picture and a video of God for you, is that undeniable proof. Thing is you got to give me the money before i show you. You just got to have faith I'll show it to you, though.

Originally posted by I See You
I will put up some hard earned cash and if anyone else is willing to do the same to the person who gives undeniable proof that god exists. Proof that would make all non believers believe and close the case of gods existence forever. Any takers?

Must be hardcore undeniable proof and be along the lines of taught religions.

Let me see... you post a challenge to motivate someone with greed (someone taught against materialistic greed/love of money).

Then you want them to give you whatever "you" (and apparently all non-believers) consider undeniable proof of Gods existance. Thus taking away your free will and forcing you to believe in God?

Also you didn't mention but you probably want the evidence to come in the form of something other than a holy text such as the Bible. Probably because you dont see it as the inspired word of God as he doesn't exist to you and it has been corrupted through the ages anyhow right?

Hmmm...

Well all money aside here is my take on it and response for you.

The Bible mentions the terms pre-destination and being chosen by God before you choose him. (if I can use the Bible as a source for my theory here)

Romans 8:28-30
28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him,[j] who[k] have been called according to his purpose. 29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

I see this as one of 3 ways...

A.) Everyone on earth was predestined to be born in whatever time and place that they would have the best chance to believe in God. He chooses who is born, when and where, and free will allows you to accept or not.

B.) Everyone on earth is not predestined to choose him (kind of obvious) and we are still born when and where we have the best oppurtunity to hear the word but only some are pre-selected by him. (seems unfair)

C.) He predestines some who he uses to witness or teach, and try to spread his word to others. (notice not force them to believe with hard core evidence) And all are welcome to accept or reject him based on free will.

I think C may be the closest answer and may explain why some people hear the word and accept it immediatley because these people were already selected or chosen by God.

Where others may not be pre-selected (looks at your post) but you have the same right to choose him as me or anyone else.

The only problem is you may not have as much time as you think to sit back and ask others to prove things for you and convince you of something that is a personal decision you must make.

"If you can't see God in everything, then you cant see God in anything"
(source needed for qoute)

PS: Romans 11:25 states

25I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.

So basically were sitting around waiting for the rapture until whatever pre-determined number of non Jew (gentiles) accepts christ as thier saviour and fulfills the number.

If you are the last one and here you are screwing around waiting to hear a good enough arguement to convince you... I will offer you some of my hard earned money to accept the message.

Of course this is after you do and let us know, and if the rapture doesnt occur then you werent the last one and the offer is null and void


And one final thing

Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

So there is no getting around taking a leap of faith to believe.