It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

$$$ for the one who can prove gods existence

page: 5
2
<< 2  3  4    6  7 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 6 2007 @ 06:13 PM
link   
Oh, uh, of course, I'm not so foolish as to let you pick your 6 best friends as judges. We must each pick 6 perfect strangers. We can go to the mall to do this.




posted on Aug, 6 2007 @ 06:23 PM
link   
well it apears no one ever says something on my theory on the last page. Anyone out there who has a response to maybe God being on a quantum realm



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 03:31 AM
link   


Must be hardcore undeniable proof and be along the lines of taught religions.


entropy. the universe and everything in it operates on increasing entropy where as life procedes with negative entropy.

ill dumb it down in case you didnt understand. take out a bunch of ice cubes in a hot room. you know they will melt because the way of the universe always goes from order to disorder. life is an ice cube, that dispite it being hot in the room, gets more icy. the water just magically forms itself into a cube.

proof of god doesnt automatically mean proof that earth´s religions are correct.



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 07:31 AM
link   

Originally posted by nowayreally
If you claim that 'mankind' has made and defined the concept of God, and that that description is what you are debating, you then open up a larger can of worms. Whoes God, which god, and whoes definition and description of God is correct, and whoes is wrong? Which one are you referring to?


Quickly and easily the can of worms can be closed with
"All religions are wrong and all their gods are false"


Originally posted by nowayreally
Take a hatchet and cut off my head, and I remain thoughtless in brain functioning and ability to live, but find me my soul, (that feeling of connection to life that cannot be produced by any physical means) and cut that out of my body, and I will die quicker than any chocked off neurological connection.


The attachment to life that you feel is produced completely and soley by physical means and by external conditioning from birth. You could easily have been raised in such a way as to feel no connection to life and in fact loathe all forms of life.

I can take you away for a month or two and abuse you in such ways that your sense of a soul is totally torn out of you and then make you love me for the way I mistreat you, even though you have no sense of self or connection to the larger world.
This is a fairly standard thing going on in thousand of abusive relationships or cult like settings.

Guess you didn't get to this part of your psych courses.


Originally posted by nowayreally
Me and the rest of the world, with me will perish quicker than the front line in a battlefield. If that certain connectedness that human beings feel was to be pinpointed and removed, then I doubt any of us would even be able to begin to fathom what a God actually meant- We'd be flesh restraint robots. We would have no feeling to attach our belief to, and no emotional attachment to keep us fighting for the feeling.


Well now how do you explain the continued living of the mentally ill, the comatosed, the mentally disabled, etc, who can not even begin to touch on the feelings and thoughts you have been capable of since around age three? They have no thought of god, they are not connected to much of a world at all. Yet they live.

A feeling of connectedness can be greatly enhanced and very much falsified by psychedilc drugs, or brain chemical imbalances. Does that make the insane stalker that kills for your affection more in touch with his "soul" or more "Soulful"? Nope.
But one hit of '___', and twenty minutes later and most subjects will feel "connected" to any random person they talk to.

This mystic soul you speak of is a bio-chemical reaction conditioned into you starting in the womb with the influx of hormones your mother feeds you through her emotional state and then is reinforced through the mother-child bonding after birth.

Not every kid gets that benefit, not every mother and child bond, and not every child turns out to be "connected to life".

Suicide is the third leading cause of death for children between the ages of 10 and 19,
1 million attempt it, 1 in 5 contemplate it, and 1,600 succeed.

Are you suggesting someone came along and tore out their soul and poof, they died?

No they had issues inside of their brain, whether from disease of some organ, or external pressures they were not conditioned to cope with.

Sure some people need to believe in god, and they need to believe in their religious leadership, and their country, and every other lie that is given to them.
Just like cattle needs a rancher to mosey them back into the barn or to the slaughter.

All that proves is that people are easily conditioned toward ignorance and can be told to do whatever horrible thing in the name of god, country, consumerism, you name it.



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 07:45 AM
link   
The only person who can prove to you that God exists is God, and even then you would be free to find alternative causes for everything you experienced.

I could tell you about God bringing my dead baby back to life, being my best friend, talking to me out loud, and seeing him/her during a "near death" experience, but even if you believe I believe what I say, there is no reason for you to believe these things actually happened.

One question I've wondered about is why would God reveal him/herself to some and not to others. My belief is that some people decide, before they reincarnate, that they have progressed to the stage where they are ready to tough life out alone, without a God to lean on, and choose that path in order to become bigger and stronger spiritually.

Life is a game, different people play it different ways.



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 07:55 AM
link   

Originally posted by Gorman91
let me put it this way legalizer.
If all the God and stuff is chemical reaction, then why did we evolve to believe it.

Why did we evolve to rape, murder, and rob each other?
Why did we evolve to be selfish, manipulative, and ignorant?
Why did we evolve to watch reality tv, porn, and brutal homicides by the thousands?

Simple, we are not so evolved, and the silly notion of an all powerful being falls right down from our childhood believing that mommy and daddy could do anything, and there were toothfairies and santa clauses and easter bunnies and X-men to protect us.


Originally posted by Gorman91
surly our early predecessors would have killed the man to question their beliefs?

Eh? They are still doing that today. Are you living under a rock?
The death toll of killing those who challenge the religious belief's of others has to be in the hundreds of millions when all of human history is added up.


Originally posted by Gorman91
Surly all that brain power would have evolved to not think about God but just math and science.

Yes thats exactly how we got out of the dark ages, and where we are today, brain power not wasted on "God" and invested in "the future of mankind, for fun and profit"
While the religious of the world sit in the backwaters of evolution.


Originally posted by Gorman91
It's funny. We are the only creature that has a part of the brain that says "wait a sec, let me think about this." We are the only ones who have evolved to not listen to just instinct. Why did we evolve this useless part of our brain. couldn't we have done better to have evolved without that brain section?


First of all you don't know what apes, monkeys, chimps, dolphins, whales, octopus, ravens, or any other creature "thinks". Not every animal is 100% pure instinct, do
some research on current animal research. Apes playing video games, dolphins using symbols for language, ravens that play for the fun of it, etc.

Again your question about evolving with or without some portion of the brain as being proof of God is empty. We have all sorts of parts of our brain, extra bits that make fairly pointless art or badly written poetry, or forum websites full of lunacy.
This is not proof of any other god but MAN.



Originally posted by Gorman91
That and the quantum world is my proof.

You didn't provide proof of the quantum world, and the "mutliverse" I believe is copyrighted, you might want to coin a new term for your religion.


Originally posted by Gorman91its not chemical reaction, its electrical current that does it.

How do you suppose those electrical currents are generated, by god, or
do they fall out of the quantum universe at random?

www.sciencedaily.com

In a normal brain, neurons release a common neurotransmitter called glutamate. It is abundant throughout the brain, playing a role in communication between the various types of neurons. Without glutamate, the brain would seize up and cease to function.


Thats just one chemical, there are plenty more.



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 08:01 AM
link   
Gorman91 (sorry if I got ur name wrong) Nice Pic

What we live in and experience, what scientist discover, what little things and big things we come to realises builds upon a system of construction so thought out, so intelligent, so great, that something (GOD) with intelligence created it.



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 08:24 AM
link   

Originally posted by Legalizer


Why did we evolve to rape, murder, and rob each other?
Why did we evolve to be selfish, manipulative, and ignorant?
Why did we evolve to watch reality tv, porn, and brutal homicides by the thousands?




Legalizer,
Men and women didn't "evolve" to do these things.
The fall of man into SIN did this.
We were made to love God and each other, but the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life keeps us at the will of sin.


God is not the same as the toothfairy or Santa. He is real. He has saved my life. He also talks to me and I to him.You should try it.



Most being killed for their religious beliefs today are christians. North Korea, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, China, etc......

The voice of the Martyrs



Do you know how much of the evolutionary theory rests on the pillars of lies and contradictions?
The dinosaur to bird fossils that were feathers glued on a dinosaur fossil. Or the piltdown man or the nebraska man , Fakes and mistakes sometimes still taught to the youth!!!
The faked Haekel embryology chart! Hello??
Wake up. People make money off of "evolution".



Thats just one chemical, there are plenty more.


Yes God even made chemicals....



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 09:23 AM
link   

Originally posted by Clearskies
Legalizer,
Men and women didn't "evolve" to do these things.
The fall of man into SIN did this.
We were made to love God and each other, but the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life keeps us at the will of sin.


scapegoat. let me guess, "SIN" is also why we have disease.



God is not the same as the toothfairy or Santa. He is real. He has saved my life. He also talks to me and I to him.You should try it.


god is quite the same as the toothfairy. their existence has the same amount of proof



Most being killed for their religious beliefs today are christians. North Korea, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, China, etc......

The voice of the Martyrs


most being killed in those areas THROW THEMSELVES INTO THOSE AREAS TO BECOME MARTYRS.




Do you know how much of the evolutionary theory rests on the pillars of lies and contradictions?
The dinosaur to bird fossils that were feathers glued on a dinosaur fossil. Or the piltdown man or the nebraska man , Fakes and mistakes sometimes still taught to the youth!!!


not all of those are fake archaeoptrix (my spelling may be off) was first thought of as real, then a fraud, but now we realize that is real... and biologists realize that things like piltdown man are fake.. and they admit they were fooled and stop teaching it.



The faked Haekel embryology chart! Hello??


they aren't faked... they're dubious maybe, but not faked. there has been no solid evidence to show they are fraudulent and some of what is in the chart has been confirmed by MODERN embryology.



Wake up. People make money off of "evolution".


nowhere near as much money as people make off of the bible...




Yes God even made chemicals....


prove it.


see, this thread is out here to PROVE god's existence. if you do so you get $$$... i don't know how much that is... but i'll try to help prove god's existence for the sake of a buck.

religious viewpoint: if all the evidence in the world showed me there was no god i'd admit it but i'd still believe

scientific viewpoint: if all the evidence in the world showed me there was a god i'd admit it and accept it readily.

[edit on 8/7/07 by madnessinmysoul]



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 09:23 AM
link   

Originally posted by Clearskies
Do you know how much of the evolutionary theory rests on the pillars of lies and contradictions?
The dinosaur to bird fossils that were feathers glued on a dinosaur fossil. Or the piltdown man or the nebraska man , Fakes and mistakes sometimes still taught to the youth!!!
The faked Haekel embryology chart! Hello??
Wake up. People make money off of "evolution".


People make money off religion, is that enough for you to question it? People have lied in christianity, there are questionable histories of the bible itself (e.g. comma johanneum). Does that mean christianity rests on the Pillars of lies? The Turin shroud is not jesus'. Does that mean jesus didn't exist?

All the above issues you regurgitate have nothing to say about the validity of evolutionary theory, just that some people are dishonest.

It wasn't creationists that found that fake fossils were faked. It wasn't creationists that found Haeckel's embyro diagrams were questionable. It was the same scientists who make a living working in evolutionary science. So, science did its job of weeding the crap out.

Haeckel's drawing are not taught as being correct, they are presented in a historical sense, outlining why Haeckel was wrong about his recapitulation ideas. However, we do know that embryos within related groups go through stages of similarity.

Evolutionary theory does not rest on Haeckel, Nebraska man, Piltdown man, or a faked bird fossil.

We have lots of real homonid fossils, we have lots of real early bird fossils.



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 02:21 PM
link   
Why are we debating evolution anyways?
What does evolution have to do with whether or not God exists?

Maybe God made life through evolution. Manybe 'dinosaurs' were his first 'humankind'. I believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, but in believing this, I know that there is no extent to the unlimitless strength and possibilities to all he means and has done.

Science and God go hand in hand.

Of course they do!

God has created us through science. I dont understand the problem with both?



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 04:11 PM
link   

Originally posted by nowayreally
God has created us through science. I dont understand the problem with both?


well... the whole god question seems to go against science. the universe with all of its laws, evolution, etc makes sense and works perfectly without the existence of a deity. god seems to be a superfulous addition that is cut out by occams razor



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 04:55 PM
link   
Fair enough, I suppose, but to me the existence of 'these laws' of science are even more evidence that a God exists.

How could artwork (such as the concept of the eye as posted earlier) as beautiful as nature exists without an artist? No, it's too detailed and intricate, it's all too obsessively drawn out and implemented to just happen over time! - no matter how long.
To grown, change and acclamate (sp?) is real and beautiful, and science is how our brains comprehend it, but who are we to even begin to question the creator? We are here 'living and breathing' through him and within him.

And as a post script, I just want to say that what I have just written are my own personal 'existence of (my) God' thoughts on the issue. By no means am I writing it to push anything or discredit those who believe otherwise. As long as we all 'care' about our opinions and beliefs and believe enough in it, to search for our 'truths', then we will always end up on the same side of the river. Brothers and sisters, hand in hand



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 05:10 PM
link   
Okay, let me see...

1) Quantum physics leaves the door open for the creation of an infinite number of alternate Universes, where each possible quantum state is resolved and all possibilities are actualized.

2) With an infinite number of Universes possible, there must be at least one Universe where the concept of God is actualized.

3) Since God is generally defined as an omnipotent and omnipresent entity, if God exists in one Universe, then God exists in all Universes.

I'll let you know where to send the prize money. Thanks!



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 05:12 PM
link   
Actually, in order to make the contest fair, you're going to have to provide us with a good, workable definition of "God," that we can all pretty much agree on. Good luck with that.




posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 05:51 PM
link   

Originally posted by nowayreally
Fair enough, I suppose, but to me the existence of 'these laws' of science are even more evidence that a God exists.

How could artwork ... as beautiful as nature exists without an artist? No, it's too detailed and intricate, it's all too obsessively drawn out and implemented to just happen over time! - no matter how long.


Nowayreally, you have it all the wrong way around. Without laws of science the universe would not hold together at all, so we would not exist to debate the concept of God. They don't indicate the presence of God, they merely indicate that a universe formed that we can live in.

And we don't see beauty in nature because it's beautiful, we see beauty in nature because we evolved in this environment, and nature is all mankind was seeing for the first few million years. You might notice that people raised in concrete cities often don't respond to the "beauty" of nature at all.

As for your contention that the eye is too complex to evolve, there are creatures with spots of light-sensitive pigment on their skin, there are creatures with several different types of eyes, and there is or has been every variation inbetween. Just google eye evolution, and you will find dozens of links explaining it.

Personally, I don't doubt for a moment there is a God. But the God I believe in values logic and openmindedness, and would rather not be believed in at all than have people claim proofs that don't exist. What I don't believe in is books that have been put together by priests in theocratic societies, who have claimed their own prejudices, greed and bloodlusts are the commands of an almighty God.

Tell me, Nowayreally, If the bible is the word of God and God really does hate homosexuality, and if God created man, why did God put the male G-spot inside the poor guy's rectum?



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 06:49 PM
link   
Kail, thanks for sharing your belief/your explanation.
Just for the record, I dont belive in any word, sentence, or idea that any human being(s) tell me is of or from the word of the Lord.. So, the Bible, can't help you there


I do believe that there are parts of the bible that are significant in that they were written in the suppossed name of him. So, either way, even if they were false words and/or prophets, they are associated with his name,and I believe that he would want us to know it for some relevance in our lives. If even for 'know thy enemy' purposes.

Deep inside I think we all know the 'right' thing to do, and that we all have many similar moral foundations that connect us all. I believe this because it's somewhere inside me making me write it and feel it, and that everyday I (we) am evolving, but in intellectual, enlightened and faithful ways. I try to follow my heart where it may lead, and it often gets lonely and uncertain. But, when it gets just about dark enough to give up, Lo and behold, I find him there, almost as if he had been there the whole time waiting for me to just glance over. Everytime low and behold, I find God there.

So, to sum it up, my God, who is undefinable as far as I am concerned, has no temple or 'churches' that recruit his followers. Each day I find him (and I do mean Jesus, by the way) in a new place, way or part of my life. And then I just roll with it wherever he needs me to go, whatever I need to
Lately I have had some comfort in intelligent (spiritual) meetings with unexpected people.


Anyways, Im sorry to ramble about 'my' this or 'my' that. It's just that I need some kind of way to quickly wrap up...well, um...the overall idea in my last two posts. It would be so much easier if I had some kind of catagory, besides crazy



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 07:40 PM
link   
Crazy is a logical response to this world.
It's the inflexibility of sanity that frightens me.



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 08:57 PM
link   
Everybody is their own god (we are made up of the same subatomic particles as everything else), and their thoughts on greater "god-like" energy belongs to them as well. Two people may have completely contradicting beliefs on God, but if their God works for them than that is all that matters. Your beliefs are in direct corrolation with how your god acts. That is why no one can force their god on you. Therefore, the only one you can prove god exists to is yourself, since it is your God of personal belief. You won your own bet, so pay yourself.

[edit on 8/7/2007 by pjslug]



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 10:40 PM
link   

Originally posted by pjslug
That is why no one can force their god on you.


That is not entirely true, torture and brain washing can easily make you believe in whatever god your victimizer desires you to believe.


Originally posted by Clearskies
Most being killed for their religious beliefs today are christians. North Korea, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, China, etc......


Extremist fallacies of a religious zealot in action there.

"Christian nations" are bombing Muslim countries on the order of a "Christian president"
We are not bombing them with simple explosives but with radioactive explosives that will kill them and their children, and children's children, until the end of time.
The death toll from "Christian" sanctions against Iraq killed an estimated 8 million.

Theories like evolution are not "religion" therefore contradictions and questioning of facts are expected, unlike the blind faith of a religion which makes up insane rationalizations to fit their view.




Originally posted by nowayreally
So, to sum it up, my God, who is undefinable as far as I am concerned, has no temple or 'churches' that recruit his followers.

You just defined this "god" and defined "his" sex.


Originally posted by nowayreally
Each day I find him (and I do mean Jesus, by the way) in a new place, way or part of my life. And then I just roll with it wherever he needs me to go, whatever I need to



This behavior is in your psyche books, someone pointed it out to me in a friend many years ago. Basically you associate things to your current strongest delusional beliefs,
and these delusions can change over time.

For instance people with your 'condition' might associate the number 23 to every bad instance of something. Others might associate every song on the radio to their lost lover. Others might associate every news story as proof "The end times are near", or that "The NWO did it!"

I'm sure you'll read about this sooner or later.


[edit on 7-8-2007 by Legalizer]




top topics



 
2
<< 2  3  4    6  7 >>

log in

join