$$$ for the one who can prove gods existence

haha ok last post then back to topic :p....

Again what you are saying has no evidence behind it.... its all just your theories "except for the equation". The rest you have simply assumed.

what IF "Soul" existed

assumed

What would it be composed of at its basis? ENERGY of course, because EVERYTHING = ENERGY

assumed

Nothingness or energy?

assumed

I can keep going on and on... where is the evidence that there is only nothingness or energy... since you are having a ball over here let me spice it up a bit ..

How do you know that there isn't different types of energy... such as our soul, that could be composed of a different type of energy than the energy on Earth etc... blah blah again this is another theory but some ppl might start thinking about it and mistakenly convert it from theory to fact. Just as you have done now... I can bring in human chakra... concentration of the human mind to release energy etc...

ok one last post just for you
since u actually adressed my theory and had a Q

Mass = energy

so mass = soul or god = mass

thanks, im out
[edit on 6-8-2007 by muzzleflash]

[edit on 6-8-2007 by muzzleflash]

The balance of predator/prey is again a complexity thing. Given an infinite amount of time, a world more "perfect" than this one can and WILL evolve. I find it much less likely that a god choose to create this world out of "pure chance" than for something like circular time to be the answer. One always runs into the issue of who created god if he (it/her) created the universe. Circular time provides the possibility that everything just is and is like a record. Once the end is reached it starts over again.

That issue plagues a lot of people.. who created god ? I guess we will never know till we die Our minds just arent fit to handle such ideas. As for your comment on circular time... How can time be circular or how can time be a one line sort of concept ? These are also questions that will simply... bust our balls :p.

I would like to open with my personal life verse from the bible:

"Think of ways to encourage one another to outbursts of love and good deeds." NLT - Hebrews 10:24

This is no rant or condemnation of posters in this thread, rather it is to applaud the question. As a Christ follower it is my responsibility then to share why I believe in God. I could spend hours with lengthy discourse but I will keep it short.

1. Psalm 22 - Written hundreds of years before Jesus walked among us the prophetic nature of this Psalm is chilling.

2. The disciples - Their changed lives. Men who quaked and hid when their master was arrested and crucified were themselves persecuted and they died professing him as the Son of God. There was no monetary gain in this for them (no payoff), they were hunted and harrassed but would not recant after their resurrection experiences.

3. Creation - It cries out in witness to a Creator God.

4. Me - My own changed life bears witness to my God. I am not perfect, I am not any different from the rest of humankind, but in seeking Him I found a. Peace, b. answers to prayers, c. a desire to put aside my own self for others.

Finally, the true crux of my reply, is if you seek Him honestly, openly, earnestly, you will find Him. Ask questions to any and all, read the bible, show Him you are interested in Him and He will reveal Himself. Try praying for thirty days for Him to show you in some way that He exists. It doesn't have to be some long prayer, just be real, be sincere.

Peace,
Bill

Do you honestly think that if someone could prove God beyond a shadow of a doubt to nonbelivers that they would need what little amount of money someone on this board was willing to pay for proof?

To Prove that God Exists? Its very simple and i can put it in layman's terms for ya.

The Reason behind God ---> what we can't explain.

Why people worship God ---> To seek an answer or anything.

Who is God? --->
-Christians> He is the One, The Almighty, The Creator.
-Athiest> I don't believe in any god (Godless, a non-believer with God).

We cannot say who is God, everyone has different views/perspective, even for those who accept God Exists Or Not. And says differently, i.e "I believe In God", by the term in, YOU cannot say that God does not Exist, because simplely you said YOU believed IN god. But not saying God does exist. Now remembering that everybody throughout history, nearly always says, I believe in God. But never states that God Exists.

So why are humans stating that "God Does Not Exist", when in fact the whole time people are saying I believe in God, and not saying that God does not Exists. How Can we Humans, believe in something, that does not exist? It doesn't make sense, if it didn't exist in the first place then why are we saying that we believe in God?

Proof: If we believe in "Ugalia" (A made up word), then obviously it will exist, if it didn't than we can't say that it doesn't exist because we know that Ugalia is there in the first place. The only way Ugalia doesn't exist is that we train ourselves into thinking it doesn't exist. But how can we say that Ugalia doesn't exist, when we thought/said that it exists in the first place and saying that it doesn't exist. Its just like driving a car in racecourse over and over again.

So how do we prove that God exists? This Reality has possiblities that are endless right up into infinity.

Lets take this into God now, if there was a God, then wouldn't this God come from something? You can't really say something comes from absolute nothingness, its impossible. So where did God come from? No one said that God was created, but he was the creator. But a invention must have came from an inventor, so stating God, who created God? If we think about it, the creator of God, must also have a creator, and it goes on. But why? Doesn't it stop? Doesn't it end? Is it because we are viewing it at a different angle? I thought this Reality has an endless possiblities, yet we cannot think of a possiblity that would answer the question of infinity.

I will also state that someone said "God cannot be restricted". This is easily contridicted. For example, If God was almighty, and cannot be restricted, then if God made a Golden Wall, an unstoppable Wall, that nothing, absolutely nothing can break through it, and then God makes an unstoppable Cannon, what if we put these two things together, "Cannon & Golden Wall". Now if the Cannon was to fire at the Unstoppable wall, what will happen next? Can God be Restricted then? But wait, someone said God Cannot Be Restricted. Then whats this? No idea.

I am going to conclude this, if God does exist, then truely God must be the almighty and can do anything it wants to Or not, if God doesn't exist, then truely it must be all folk lore and a bastimamy. Now I will state One Last Question, if God doesn't exist, "Who Or What Is the Next in Line to become God if it doesn't exist, OR who or What Is the Closest thing to God?

may be Roger Penrose can help you

Shadows of Mind

[edit on 6-8-2007 by SJSJSJ]

[edit on 6-8-2007 by SJSJSJ]

I always thought that God may be the Sun. Just like what the ancient Mayans thought. Where did the sun come from and why is it producing energy for Earth? Is it just a coincidence that the sun is vital for life to exist or is it for a purpose?

Originally posted by I See You


Must be hardcore undeniable proof and be along the lines of taught religions.

You know how impossible it is to change somebodies mind about anything. Especially if they have been brought up to believe it. Personally i don't believe right now, but whose to say that won't change. For now I'm trying to do as much reading as humanly possible and develop my own opinion. Who knows, maybe over the years evolution and all scientific advances could be proven wrong in one instant. Maybe, but probably not.

Originally posted by Dan5647
I always thought that God may be the Sun. Just like what the ancient Mayans thought. Where did the sun come from and why is it producing energy for Earth? Is it just a coincidence that the sun is vital for life to exist or is it for a purpose?

I believe it is just coincidence, we are only here because we have the sun to warm the planet and support life. Our planet just so happens to be the right distance from the sun, and it is pure chance we evolved from some sort of simple life form.

I fail to see why any of this is less probable than a god existing and making a few humans who he then expects to worship him in the hope they get into a place he has created where everything is all nice and perfect. Am i missing something?

Don't get me wrong i think religion teaches many good things but i firmly believe its a product of the human brain to hope that by following a few simpel rules you can live on forever in a better place.

Originally posted by I See You

Must be hardcore undeniable proof and be along the lines of taught religions.

I've said it many times, I'll say it again. The Quantum World. In the tiny itsy bitsy world of the sub atomic materials of electrons, photons, quarts and the likes. Here, there is NO TIME. In other words, due to the lack of time, anything can be anywhere at the same time as all other positions in the universe. Basic description of God to most religions: an all powerful being that exists everywhere at the same time. God would be in something like this realm of no time. In existing there, the then, now, and soon to be would all be now. Past present and future would be in non-existence. It doesn't say "GOD EXISTS" but rather it states that there is a realm of existence he could exist in. you'd have to experience a miracle to "prove" it. Otherwise, just know that you could be God if you could go into this realm of existence. This too is said in most major religions: you die and become one with God in this realm of existence called "heaven" to our understanding.

Probably not good enough for money, but good enough for you to think about it.

I've shown this picture before. It's my vision of the multiverse. God created a universe, and it splited into an infinite ammount of possibilities. Every possibility for every moment on time causes it to split into different possibilities. The bright light is the "quantum brain" that exists everywhere and always. It is hooked into all the many universes.

No offence intended here - but these threads are generally tiresome.

Theological discussion and even philosphical yes but this always turns into a thread of flame.

Firstly - what are you prepared to accept as undeniable proof? If God appeared to you in the form of an old man glowing with heavenly light and touched you with his hand?

Does that bring into question your perception of the definition of an entity described as a God?

Or would it be an emotional relapse of psychosis warranting a hallucination based on psychological influences you have picked up over the years.

What I am getting it - is by the definition or various concepts of what a God is. Then - if you are not one - how could you possibly understand or comprehend the proof and evidence of one?

The Higgs Boson particle is believed to be on the verge of full discovery and through the course of 2008 to 2009 upon succesful experimentation the data presented may well prove the existence of the Higgs Boson particle.

en.wikipedia.org...

Now CERN are actually builiding the collider to hopefully detect this particle and bring the hypothetical into the realm of existence.

Now this is referred to as the God particle. Generally without doing degrees in particle physics to warrant further interpretation. Generally this particle may be the omnipresent hidden essence of all things. It exists in you - in your body every cell - in rocks in trees - in suns - in the black emptiness of space. Is that not a God ?

Of course its not a God, its a particle of physics, its a scientific item. Its not a creator? But surely its been present if it indeed exists in every know action and reaction ever to be witnessed in our known universe?

But of course its a particle nothing more nothing less.

And again then the challenge is, define what God is. For anyone to ask of the evidence to entirely prove God exists then surely you would have to have knowledge of what God is.

Are you looking for the biblical image of the heavenly father? Then you have been led to a wrong conclusion of what God is by misinterpretation of stories, folklore, and religious teaching.

Quite easy to hold onto the money of a bet if you expect someone to pull an old man with flowing white hair out a hat.

The clear thing remains is that there is no way to prove the existence of a God by the definitions and possibilities of what a God is. And there is no way at all to prove the non existence of such a thing.

All we are talking about here - is the meaning understanding, interpretation, of the word ..... God.

Hence why the definition of the word faith exists. People have a faith in God. It is something they define by themselves and their own actions.

And for those who believe there is no God they also by simple definition, have a faith in such a belief too.

There is no clear definition as to what a God is. Therefore how can we expect to prove or disprove something that has not yet been defined within our limits of understanding.

OK cash money to prove without a doubt the quantum world exists.

Muzzleflash hit the nail on the head, or in the wrists and ankles if you will.

And its funny, because we've both been absent from these boards for the same period of time, and I do recall not liking him very much...though I don't recall why..but thats besides the point.

Any single human person's thought about god is a chemical reaction and a motion of electricty inside of the cranium across folds of fat. Absolutely nothing more than that.

I sever your religious head from your religious body and you stop thinking about god, no virgins, no jesus, no heaven and no hell. You drift out of this world as your bio-chemical reactions halt.

I drop some '___' in your cupcake and you think you are touching the face of god.

I take you out into the country, control your eating, sleeping, and sex life (standard mind control practice of every cult/religion/military) and soon you will believe that I am god or whatever I happen to say about god.

Energy is very easily manipulated, especially if you have the right tools.

A persons thoughts are nothing more than energy and you can see by the devoutly religious their minds have been shaped by outside influences very effectively.

What was it some fool asked?
How do you know there are not different types of energy?

Well elementary school science class goes over the many wavelengths of electro magnetic energy, and there is kinetic energy, so we already know there are many "types" of energy.

It doesn't disprove the "God=Energy" model presented by muzzleflash, and his viewpoint is hardly new.

Also the predictions from the Bible about the Jews has been forceably fulfilled by the Jews through their own machinations, just as the prophecy of the Apocalypse is being actively worked on by neo-con evangelical christians, and equally crazed muslims for that matter.

Originally posted by Legalizer
OK cash money to prove without a doubt the quantum world exists.

3 words "double slit experiment", the quantum world exists. And anything in this world is not limited by time. God could very well exist there or on a higher field. there is no evidence either way, but it slightly slanted toward God. Just the knowledge that the bible/quran speaks of it. 'nuff said

Valid points Legalizer. I do not agree, but they are worthy opinions and beliefs. As a psych. student for way too many years now I completely understand your rational on this issue, but there are many areas of the whole 'energy' and neurological aspects in relation to God that dont appear to apply correctly.

Many people need to feel that God exists for their own self-consciousness and their own struggles in life, and many disbelieve in God simply because of the egocentric ideals of the former.
But, neither of the two 'types' of people on the God debate hold any credibility when it comes to debating his existence. Since we only have the power to percieve the idea of a God, but not the power of understanding that would be needed to be a God, so to speak, we cannot argue for or against his behalf. Although, it can become easier with some yummy mushrooms, so I'm guessing - hehe!

Regardless, take into account any form of science, or psychological nature/nurture debates, talk about neurology, ect., it doesnt make a difference. That is because when you claim that God does not exist, you are breathing life into an 'entity' you deem God, and then claiming that no such entity exists.

If you claim that 'mankind' has made and defined the concept of God, and that that description is what you are debating, you then open up a larger can of worms. Whoes God, which god, and whoes definition and description of God is correct, and whoes is wrong? Which one are you referring to?

Take a hatchet and cut off my head, and I remain thoughtless in brain functioning and ability to live, but find me my soul, (that feeling of connection to life that cannot be produced by any physical means) and cut that out of my body, and I will die quicker than any chocked off neurological connection.

Me and the rest of the world, with me will perish quicker than the front line in a battlefield. If that certain connectedness that human beings feel was to be pinpointed and removed, then I doubt any of us would even be able to begin to fathom what a God actually meant- We'd be flesh restraint robots. We would have no feeling to attach our belief to, and no emotional attachment to keep us fighting for the feeling.

let me put it this way legalizer. If all the God and stuff is chemical reaction, then why did we evolve to believe it. surly our early predecessors would have killed the man to question their beliefs? Surly all that brain power would have evolved to not think about God but just math and science.

It's funny. We are the only creature that has a part of the brain that says "wait a sec, let me think about this." We are the only ones who have evolved to not listen to just instinct. Why did we evolve this useless part of our brain. couldn't we have done better to have evolved without that brain section? That and the quantum world is my proof. And that's all I can say at the moment. Oh yea, its not chemical reaction, its electrical current that does it.

Heheh...I think your money is going to be very safe indeed.

J.

So if God were to call you by name and say jack or Jake or Tammy or whatever you name is .. lets say you heard it in your sleep would you then believe or chalk it up as coincidence?Would you try and find out how this can be.I believe God can prove himself in this manner but it is a rare thing. Your name says you have vision but its more than obvious you have blinders of some type on. If you honestly seek the truth you WILL find him.seek and you shall find. But you most likely like all other atheist and Satanist(they get along fine funny eh?)You just like them only try and disprove God to justify your own selfishness and selfish ways of life.
Oh you say Christians and God believers impose upon society?Oh please any more than shoving garbage down our throats on the TV. The adds loaded with propaganda?If you deal with a true child of God they are selfless or at least try to be , they are there for you when you need them even if you don't believe in God.They will feed or clothe you and just lend a hand.Is this the type of "imposing our beliefs" that you hate so much?Lets close our eyes and imagine a world without Christians what would that be like?First of all no America which is based on Christian morals but slowly were taking that away (yes I'm aware of the Masonic order behind some of it as well)but originally we came here to worship God with Freedom to do so.Now imagine again a world with absolutely no Christians.Guess then the radical Muslims would only want to kill Jews.Interesting uh?I'm not saying all Christians got it right cuz many don't.Again most likely cause they are following there own will with a form of religion. Anyway a world without Christians would lead to complete destruction of ourselves and that is exactly what the bible prophecy's will happen in the last day.Chew on that.
What is it within you non believers that drive you to hate God and Gods people. If I begin to talk about other gods or paganism ill get a chorus of "that's real cool man" or if I talk about Allah it may bring a very small dispute but you'll end up saying "whatever your into man"but if I start to talk about Jesus Christ ANGER wells up inside people.. why is that?Is it because your God knowingly or unknowingly gets angry because he knows that one day "every knee shall bow"?IS it because you don't want to BOW but leave a selfish self centered life that's all bout you?Could it be possible that when you leave this planet you will find your spirit does in fact live on and you will be standing before God who did manifest in the flesh with a rescue plan for humanity that was trapped in linear time by rebellious angelic beings(Satan and his angels). All of creation proves God.
Particles giving of particles.Atoms.. the law of giving and receiving matter and anti-matter.You see to gain children God gave of himself manifested in the flesh as one of us and gave his life.The whole time giving us freewill to reject him if we so choose to.He dont want robots! Amazing and yes I know it looks like a fairy tale to the blinded.Perhaps that's why Jesus said "we must become as little children to enter the Kingdom ofHeaven.
It's all so obvious but man in his WISDOM and KNOWLEDGE ROFL think they have figured everything out! LOLOL!!!what a joke.I don't want your filthy money, but God wants your heart.If you truly see perhaps you need to hear?If you think I'm angry or condemning you not at all.You condemn yourself by closing your heart and being stubborn about it.Now prove to me you have not made up your mind.Open your heart for a day and say OK SHOW me GOD and he will.But let it be genuinely open.God would say to you "I SEE YOU".

Hey i can go make a Jesus in a grilled cheese...is that enough proof?...For real though, wih the word in such disarray how is one supposed to believe in something?...I guess its hope....oh wait theres proof...seeing as many people believe hope IS God.....just my incoherant two cents

Originally posted by I See You
I will put up some hard earned cash ... Any takers?

Must be hardcore undeniable proof and be along the lines of taught religions.

How real is this offer; I have hardcore proof!

If your offer is indeed for real, here's what I need from you in order to deliver what I have.

1. An escrow account with at least 32,000 dollars.
2. A reliable third party audit firm to verify the account is opened and funded.
3. A contract that states that if the proof I provide is 'proof enough" for a panel of 12 judges (6 picked by you, 6 picked by mean)

We will both split the cost for the auditing firm, but if the judges say my proof is "proof enough", then you have to pay my attorney's fee. Of course, if the judges do not unanimously agree that my proof is "proof enough", then I agree to pay your attorney's fee.

If we have a deal, let me know once you've opened the account, and funded it to the minimum I am asking for. I'll provide you with a number for my attorneys. They'll review the contract, while we each find 6 judges.