convicted felons?

I have mixed feelings on this one.I realize that we all make mistakes in life, and we do our best to accept repercussions and make amends, and I do believe in second chances,however,and this is a big however, there are a lot of men in every lodge that work very hard at personal betterment and betterment of society at least on a think globally/act locally type of level.I did and continue to do my best to live my life above board and uphold the law, not because of fear of punishment, but because of virtue of character and ethics.I would have to say that if a felony was found in someone seeking admission to my lodge, I would blackball them.Sorry to be hardline, and I do believe in second chances in life, however it is too big a risk for my reputation and the reputation of over 200 (in my lodge's case) people to be ruined potentially by the action of one individual.Yes you paid your debt to society,but why should others have to take a risk at potentially paying for the actions of another.

Either way best of luck, I don't find you to be a bad or reprehensible person, and I certainly know my share of people who have done time, but I wouldn't sign or vote for them.

soo.. you would blackball me. that's rediculous. america and only a handfull of like minded countries keep tabs on people's criminal record. it's a form of control. thank god the republicans see this as a majior conflict of interest. america sells fear. if i was a mason and broke the law again how would that effect the lodge? what i'm gonna do have a public confrence and tell everybody that i'm a mason ? that sounds stupid. hell, my own family didnt even know i was in prison until i let them know. i could've lived without them knowing for the rest our lives. the problem with america is everybodies on a " my poo dont stink, criminals need to pay for their crimes for the rest of their lives", agenda. but... that all changes when their own son, father, brother or uncle gets looked-up. then they want to use every resource to free them.

in london if you was at a bar and a local attatcked you and you hit him in the head with a beer bottle, causing serious injury, the most that would happen to you is you would spend one night in the " drunk tank". in america you be charged with aggrivated assault with a weapon, child endangerment(if there was children 50 ft. within the crime scene) criminal damage to property, public intoxication, and terroristic threats. all of this carries a maximum sentence of 25 years and since it's a violent crime in georgia you would have to do 90% of your time before you were eligable for parole. here in america you could make one mistake and it could ruin your life. that's sad. most criminals dont hurt people they hurt themselves- then when they try to change their life their "BLACKBALLED" by society.

that's like cutting a man's legs off and ordering him to walk.

[edit on 5-8-2007 by MONOVALENT ALCHEMIST]

[edit on 5-8-2007 by MONOVALENT ALCHEMIST]

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[edit on 5/8/2007 by Mirthful Me]

Rules are Rules is something that most of society does not appreciate either.I did not found Freemasonry or write its rules, it is a private organization.The fairness or unfairness of it is not the issue, the issue is that people with criminal records are not to be admitted.When you become a Mason you take certain oaths, and you are held accountable for following procedure.Would you join the military and expect to be able to not follow procedure? I took oaths to uphold things, breaking those oaths would be morally reprehensible to me.There was a time in this country when a man's word counted for something,to me my word counts for something, and if I take a vow to uphold rules, I uphold them.This is the real issue.

Do I think our justice system is in every count fair and unbiased? Of course not.Do I think of you as less human than me, or inferior to me for making a mistake in your life, most likely one brief instance that was a lapse of judgment that you replayed over and over in your head and if you could have taken back you would have?No.Would I bar you from employment? No.I feel for you I really do, and I know how hard it can be to change for the better, I know about trying to do what is right and be a force for light and always see evil around you and be pulled towards it, yet not give in and do what is right, and feel it wear upon your soul, trust me that is a recurring theme in my life at times.I wish you nothing but luck and don't hold anything against you.

Originally posted by MONOVALENT ALCHEMIST
soo.. you would blackball me. that's rediculous. america and only a handfull of like minded countries keep tabs on people's criminal record. it's a form of control. thank god the republicans see this as a majior conflict of interest. america sells fear. if i was a mason and broke the law again how would that effect the lodge? what i'm gonna do have a public confrence and tell everybody that i'm a mason ? that sounds stupid. hell, my own family didnt even know i was in prison until i let them know. i could've lived without them knowing for the rest our lives. the problem with america is everybodies on a " my poo dont stink, criminals need to pay for their crimes for the rest of their lives", agenda. but... that all changes when their own son, father, brother or uncle gets looked-up. then they want to use every resource to free them.

in london if you was at a bar and a local attatcked you and you hit him in the head with a beer bottle, causing serious injury, the most that would happen to you is you would spend one night in the " drunk tank". in america you be charged with aggrivated assault with a weapon, child endangerment(if there was children 50 ft. within the crime scene) criminal damage to property, public intoxication, and terroristic threats. all of this carries a maximum sentence of 25 years and since it's a violent crime in georgia you would have to do 90% of your time before you were eligable for parole. here in america you could make one mistake and it could ruin your life. that's sad. most criminals dont hurt people they hurt themselves- then when they try to change their life their "BLACKBALLED" by society.

that's like cutting a man's legs off and ordering him to walk.

[edit on 5-8-2007 by MONOVALENT ALCHEMIST]

[edit on 5-8-2007 by MONOVALENT ALCHEMIST]

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[edit on 5/8/2007 by Mirthful Me]

words of the wise, thank-you. i'll still try to join. i have too much to offer. i hope that my role here on this earth isn't what it used to be. i'm obssesed with history and philosophy- i want to learn more about the secret teachings of all ages. this information wasn't meant for all of us- i think it was for me. i can do more than know the truth, knowledge is power.

I can see a very real problem with allowing someone with a criminal record into something like the Masons. The media/outsiders find out about a person with a substantial criminal history in ANY sort of group, and they will use that individual as a scapegoat. They will also discredit the organization and the members because of one/handful of people. I do not say this lightly, as I, too, have messed up and have a criminal background. I sympathize with ya. But no one else should have to answer for our mistakes except ourselves.

[edit on 5-8-2007 by ninthaxis]

Originally posted by MONOVALENT ALCHEMIST
[i can do more than know the truth, knowledge is power.

This is the second time you have used this term.

You also have said that you are drawn to the dark, but want to be a child of the light.

Just from reading your posts it seems like you might misuse any sort of teachings you may be granted through the "knowledge is power" wisdom.

Are you seeking power or are you seeking wisdom?

Originally posted by interestedalways

Originally posted by MONOVALENT ALCHEMIST
[i can do more than know the truth, knowledge is power.

This is the second time you have used this term.

You also have said that you are drawn to the dark, but want to be a child of the light.

Just from reading your posts it seems like you might misuse any sort of teachings you may be granted through the "knowledge is power" wisdom.

Are you seeking power or are you seeking wisdom?

i seek both. the mind is a powerful tool. not in negative way- i want to benefit myself and society. death is the end of life. i want my soul to endure. i want to create and become god-like. i feel that if i do enough good deeds in this life and there after and obtain the wisdow god has bestowed upon us he will bless us eternally. i will never figure out god's motives or how he created the heavens but i can try to humble myself and deny the dark. it's hard. it's too easy to live the life opposite to good-

note: there is only one god, you can not become a god. could you imagine soo much grace blessed upon you from god? he gives you your own galaxy. you have the ability to create through imagination, to appear anywhere just from a thought. i think god is cool like that. i would create the weirdest and funniest creatures- the ability to fly, teleport, pet dangerous animals, run faster than you ever dreamed, and hang out with legends that you read about in history class and the bible. damn, i need to get started. life is too short.

I have to agree with most of my brethren on this one... and not just because you have a criminal record. It's the words you use and the way you use them. I can tell you for certain: if I were on the investigation committee and you started talking to me the way you have been posting here? You would have no chance of getting into my lodge.

I'm sorry if you take that personally or if it offends you. Honestly. What you have posted just causes me to be suspicious of your motives, aside from your criminal record. Which, in the Grand Jurisdiction I currently reside in, would be quite enough to keep you from joining, my personal opinions notwithstanding...

That doesn't mean you can't get what you seek, however. You will just have to find a way besides joining the Masonic Lodge. There are many such ways, and if you are a true Seeker, I have no doubt that you will find.

There is a saying:

"Ask, and ye shall be given; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and the door shall be opened unto you."

This is not of Masonic origin.

Originally posted by MONOVALENT ALCHEMIST
well, i know i've never seen a black shriner- and you cant be a shriner if your not a mason. maybe it's a white power thing here in atlanta. every mason i've known or met couldn't stand blacks or jews. i tolerate but do not involve myself with them. black masons are very racist and cant stand white masons.
[edit on 4-8-2007 by MONOVALENT ALCHEMIST]

Well, I'm in south Georgia...and I have (my entire life) seen black shriners at EVERY event that the shriners here participated in. Some of those shriners were also from Atlanta....so right there the validity of your entire post is questionable to me.

In response to your "white power" comment. That is NOT the reason the white people in the south are racist (as a whole). Sure, there are a few of these "white power" aholes around these parts. But the reason white people are as racist as they are around Atlanta is because if you are out and get robbed and or shot it's most likely a black guy doing the robbing/shooting. It's the same reason that white people around Compton and Detroit use to be/are so racist. However, if you come to the area I'm in, more VIOLENT crime is committed by illegals from mexico and therefore the white people AND black people are wary of the mexicans here while us white folk don't really think twice about those black folk. Please stop giving the south a bad name. Unless you have lived here your whole life and don't have some agenda to promote.......you have no idea what it's like here.


Jasn

Originally posted by MONOVALENT ALCHEMIST
soo.. you would blackball me. that's rediculous. america and only a handfull of like minded countries keep tabs on people's criminal record. it's a form of control. thank god the republicans see this as a majior conflict of interest. america sells fear. if i was a mason and broke the law again how would that effect the lodge? what i'm gonna do have a public confrence and tell everybody that i'm a mason ? that sounds stupid. hell, my own family didnt even know i was in prison until i let them know. i could've lived without them knowing for the rest our lives. the problem with america is everybodies on a " my poo dont stink, criminals need to pay for their crimes for the rest of their lives", agenda. but... that all changes when their own son, father, brother or uncle gets looked-up. then they want to use every resource to free them.

in london if you was at a bar and a local attatcked you and you hit him in the head with a beer bottle, causing serious injury, the most that would happen to you is you would spend one night in the " drunk tank". in america you be charged with aggrivated assault with a weapon, child endangerment(if there was children 50 ft. within the crime scene) criminal damage to property, public intoxication, and terroristic threats. all of this carries a maximum sentence of 25 years and since it's a violent crime in georgia you would have to do 90% of your time before you were eligable for parole. here in america you could make one mistake and it could ruin your life. that's sad. most criminals dont hurt people they hurt themselves- then when they try to change their life their "BLACKBALLED" by society.

that's like cutting a man's legs off and ordering him to walk.

Sorry for quoting entire post mods, however my reply is to the ENTIRE post.


The reason most of us here "blackball" ex cons is because at some point in time in our lives we have ALL had those feelings that you describe here YET we do not act on them. While you may see smacking someone on the head with a beer bottle as a mistake, most of us see it as being weak willed. Unfortunately, most weak willed people are not to be trusted because in another moment of weakness they are liable to repeat their "mistakes".

If ANYTHING in America, most criminals aren't treated as harshly as they SHOULD be. With the exception of non violent/non public drug crimes (IE: a guy that smokes pot in his own home without exposing others to it or selling it), most criminals in this country get off pretty darn lightly. As an example, you can pick up the paper here anytime you want and see where some guy who got drunk and plowed his car into an innocent and NON drunk driver and that drunk gets 40 hours of community service and 6 months probation with this being his 3rd freakin offense. What SHOULD have happened, is the the guy should be put away for a good few years to THINK about what he has done and then when he is released he should be monitored for life and NEVER allowed to be behind the wheel of a vehicle again.

Another crime within a crime in this country that is let go so easily is in regards to child molestors and rapists. How can you honestly say that criminals are blackballed in a country where child molesters and rapists are considered ILL (as in it's an illness and not a crime) by a good percentage of the population.

I hate to say it as it will seem like an insult, but you sound more like you are feeling sorry for yourself because you got caught than anything else. Just from reading what you have previously written in your posts, I have my doubts that you want to change as much as you want people to THINK you want to change. You don't sound so much like you are sorry for your crimes as you are sorry because you are being 'persecuted' for your crimes.

Also, if you are going to be on here asking opinions on your situation and trying to make us understand you deserve a second chance in life.........perhaps you should actually TELL US WHAT YOU WERE CONVICTED OF.

Someone who wants to change their lives for the better should not be ashamed to admit what they have done in the past.


Jasn

Originally posted by SimiusDei
Also, if you are going to be on here asking opinions on your situation and trying to make us understand you deserve a second chance in life.........perhaps you should actually TELL US WHAT YOU WERE CONVICTED OF.

Someone who wants to change their lives for the better should not be ashamed to admit what they have done in the past.


Jasn

well, if you read the whole thread you'll see what i'm convicted of. yes, im from atlanta and i've lived here my whole life. no, i've never seen a black shriner. i know they exist- they have their "own" group.

yes, criminals are persecuted- really, d.u.i.'s are over-rated. a menatally unstable person is more likely to cause bodily harm in a car accident. they know everybody drinks on the weekends- one big money scheme. nope, never had a d.u.i.

[edit on 5-8-2007 by MONOVALENT ALCHEMIST]

well, what's after this. please comment on my beliefs after death

*SNIP*

Please do not bump threads with "bump."

[edit on 6/8/2007 by Mirthful Me]

OK I will bite, how are DUI's a big money scheme?I rarely ever drink anymore, however I am no angel,years ago I used to get wasted a lot but I NEVER got behind a wheel, I always had a sober designated driver (we would alternate on the weekends so that we always had one of us sober),or I would call a cab, it is simply the responsible thing to do,it is not fair to risk other people's lives with my lowered reaction time driving inebriated.

My Opinion

Laws are way overated.

I could care less if someones a convicted felon.

in my opinion people who do care are uptight jerks and I dont trustuptight jerks.

We need more apathy becuase Carings overated

Originally posted by Miishgoos
My Opinion

Laws are way overated.

I could care less if someones a convicted felon.

in my opinion people who do care are uptight jerks and I dont trustuptight jerks.

We need more apathy becuase Carings overated

we need law, but.... you know how it is. america sells fear

The thing about being convicted of a crime is you lose trust. A convicted felon will have a harder job finding a job because the first experience this person has to evaluate you involves your background. The choice between someone who hasn't been convicted of anything or one that has is a no brainer. The world revolves around trust, and its not the easiest thing to gain back. You may never gain it back in everyone's eyes.

Originally posted by Miishgoos
My Opinion

Laws are way overated.

I could care less if someones a convicted felon.

in my opinion people who do care are uptight jerks and I dont trustuptight jerks.

We need more apathy becuase Carings overated

I agree.

Hell, we could even use some more grammar and perhaps even a space-bar and a spell-checker!

[sheesh]

I'm not a mason, but here is my 2 cents for what it is worth.

Masons are just like everyone else. So it should be no surprise if their beliefs or attitudes do not differ much from the typical person. Therefore, you should not be surprised if Masons' attitudes towards ex-convicts are like those of society in general, in that Masons may have show little trust or acceptance of ex-convicts.

I wish the OP all the best and I hope he can be the best citizen he can be. Perhaps he is correct in that our society should be more forgiving of ex-convicts and should do more to rehabilitate them and bring them back into the fold. But it seems unfair to the masons to expect them to exhibit a level of forgiveness or take risks with people, and not place those same expectations on the rest of society. Therefore, the OP should not focus all his anger at the masons for rejecting him, because they are not the only ones rejecting him.