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What the Media Will Never Tell You About Islamic Extremism

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posted on Aug, 2 2007 @ 09:37 AM
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For some reason, unknown to me, the media never mentions the Freemasonic Links to Islamic Extremism. Especially in relation to the group that has been so influential in the revival of Islamic revolutionary thought akin to a Marxist Revolutionary movement that was evident in the liberation of Algeria from French rule (1954-62) by figures such as Ali La Pointe.

Now, I have nothing against Muslims but I believe that the mainstream Muslims are blissfully unaware of the origin of extremism in their midst over the last 30 years.

This is my take on the origins of the Muslim Brotherhood, the seminal movement for extremist thought in Islam.

The Beginnings of the Muslim Brotherhood


Freemasonry appeared in Egypt soon after Napoleon's conquest in 1798 when General Kleber, a French Mason and top commander in Napoleon's army established the Lodge of Isis. French Masonry dominated Egypt until British lodges began to appear after the British occupation in 1882. Freemasonry was very popular in the first half of the twentieth century, and many important Egyptians were Masons, along with the British rulers and aristocrats who occupied the country.

In fact the Egyptian monarchs, from Khedive Ismail to King Fouad, were made honorary Grand Masters at the start of their reigns. From 1940 to 1957 there were close to seventy Masonic lodges chartered throughout Egypt. At one time the leaders of the Nationalist and Wafd parties were Freemasons, and many members of the Egyptian parliament were Masons as well, where they mingled with the military commanders and aristocrats of the ruling British occupation.

Two very important Islamic leaders in Egypt, Jamal al-Din al-Afghani and Mohammed Abdou, were also Freemasons. Al-Afghani was a foreigner who had been the prime minister of Afghanistan before becoming an activist in Iran and Russia prior to his appearance in Egypt.

He is considered "the founder of the political pan-Islamic movement," and his movement is known as the Salafiyya movement.

He agitated against British imperialism but at the same time he advocated modernization for the Muslim world. Before being expelled from Egypt he became an important figure at Al-Azhar University in Cairo and his most important disciple was Mohammed Abduh. Throughout his life he was an activist for Muslim self-determination, but several times he visited London where, according to one biographer, "he reestablished ties with his lodge members." When al-Afghani died in 1897 he left behind a large body of political and religious writings that would form part of the basis for the later Islamist movements.


Link

Use of the Muslim Extremists by Imperialists

The Britsh rulers fully appreciated how Freemasonry could be used for manipulation of the Islamic populations in the British Empire and religion became a tool for subjugation of the populace in British occupied territories such as Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Iraq. However, the public also connected Islam with Imperialism and nationalism, which was secular in character, started to become acceptable, especially by figures such as Mossadegh or G Abdul Nasser. As a result Britain turned to their Islamic allies (e.g. the Muslim Brotherhood) to oppose the nationalism.

Sayed Qutb

The Muslim Brotherhood was started in 1928 by Hasan al Bannah, a Freemason and Radical Muslim. It is thought that British Intelligence either helped to start the movement or at least promoted it to reach prominence worldwide (50,000 members in 10 years).

Crucially, the Muslim Brotherhood became 'Freemasonry for Muslims' and had a structure of command similar to modern Freemasonry where only the elite had an idea of the agendas they were pursuing.

A figure known as Sayed Qutb, possibly the most influential writer in the Muslim Brotherhood, also a Freemason, wrote some of the most inflammatory rhetoric that inspires extremists today, preaching that the world was in a barbaric state and ''Either Islam will remain, or Jahiliyyah (ignorance/barbarity); no half-half situation is possible. Command belongs to Allah, or otherwise to Jahiliyyah; Allah's Shari'ah (laws) will prevail, or else people's desires..."

This belief spread worldwide through derivative Muslim movements e.g.
Maktab al-Khidamat (started by Osama Bin Laden) or the Masadat Al-Ansar which was the forerunner to Al Qaeeda. Today the Muslim Brotherhood movement has offshoots through Palestine and Europe.

Summary

So, in summary, IMHO, Freemasonry gave the Muslim Brotherhood a cloak of secrecy and a mode to operate with a pyramidal structure where the foot soldiers had minimal information. Sayed Qutb became the new icon for a new, extreme, idealogy.

The British and Americans) used the Muslim Brotherhood and other Jihadist movements to destabilise the rise of the Soviet Union or their satellites (for example in Afghanistan to fight the Soviet Union or the Serbians in occupied Bosnia) by giving Muslim extremist leaders shelter in Britain.

The movement has spread throughout the world in 'chapters' that operate in secrecy and initiate new members following trial and test methods.

The movement shows shades of Marxist Revolutionary views in its refusal to accept the status quo in the world and project a vision where ANYONE is fair game to attack and kill including fellow Muslims who 'go along' with Western systems that are considered Jahiliyah (ignorant/barbaric) and the constructs of humans rather than governed by Allah's Laws.

Nothing will stop these people in their zeal. Yet I have never read about the Freemasonic connection in the mainstream media. I wonder why?









[edit on 2/8/2007 by Heronumber0]




posted on Aug, 2 2007 @ 05:55 PM
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Let's get straight to the point.

The Muslim Brotherhood and its idealogy was started by Muslim Freemasons.

The Muslim Freemason were used as a bulwark against Arab nationalist movements

Freemasons in the Intelligence Services of Britain used their Masonic Muslim Brothers to further their Imperialist aims

The Muslim Brotherhood then broke away from the mainstream and adopted extremist views that other Muslims did not follow

The Muslim Brotherhood spread across the world especially in Palestine and Pakistan

The atmosphere of secrecy under which these groups operate are ideal grounds for terorism to flourish

Any opinions or views?



posted on Aug, 3 2007 @ 09:02 PM
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Of course Muslim extremism is a creation of the West, as is Zionism, it's self same created enemy, and conqueror of Christianity. You can throw Communism and Capitalism in there as well. The global situation we see today is long since planned and orchestrated and is soon to come to fruition. All the world's indeed a stage.



posted on Aug, 4 2007 @ 08:41 AM
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Originally posted by resistor
Of course Muslim extremism is a creation of the West, as is Zionism, it's self same created enemy, and conqueror of Christianity. You can throw Communism and Capitalism in there as well. The global situation we see today is long since planned and orchestrated and is soon to come to fruition. All the world's indeed a stage.


I must say that you are wise to the truth here resistor. Most people cannot believe it. I remember hearing on the radio on the way to work that a particularly vicious Irish Protestant terrorist group who had executed Catholics in double numbers were. in fact, financed and supported by British Intelligence. This opened my eyes to the way our world is a stage for people of great intellect and cunning. The rest of us schmoe's are members of a passive audience...



posted on Aug, 5 2007 @ 04:25 PM
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Heronumber0,

Very intresting post and connection you have made here.

I have read of this connection some years ago while reading Nesta Webster's book "Secret Societys and Subservsive Movements."

I also recall reading something connecting Islam and Freemasonry in Edith Star Millers book "Occult Theocrasy" before moving on to Nesta Websters book.

There seems to be a connection often to such as you describe. I recall reading a Playboy article on the Sandinasta movement in Nicaragua interviewing Daniel Ortega. He states that the Communist Sandinasta movement was started by some Freemasons meeting in a bar. I got a great chuckle out of that one.

I have heard the same thing about the Nazi party and that in the defeat of Germany after WW2 the allies moved in very quickly to extinguish any such occult connection with the western lodges...or any lodges at all.

Want to see something very intresting..you see this several times a year on the Hitler Channel...aka..the History Channel.

Watch closely the news reels of the surrender to Douglas McArthur on the battleship Missouri in 1945. Watch the Japanese Civilians and the clothes they are wearing.

THe uniform of the lodge is a tophat tuxedo and gloves. What are the Japanese Civilian represenatives wearing? Now the Generals/Admirals ..lodge members or not wear their uniforms and surrender their swords/sidearms. But watch the civililans.
I believe most observers of this film think they are watching a standard military surrender. It is one lodge surrendering to another lodge.

I should also add that Douglas Mc Arthur was a Shriner . He is buried acros the bay from me in Norfolk, Virginia next to his wife in the Museum bearing his name. Many of his private posessions are on display to the public.

I believe many would be shocked to find out how many of these wars are one lodge fighting another lodge...as was the case in WW1 where so many of the leaders were not only lodge members but also cousins.

I wonder what the lodge is to which the Mexican presidents belong....NAFTA?? Is it really an inside deal ...codified to make it publically acceptable?

THere are stories of the Mexican General Santa Anna when being readied for execution by firing squad...he gave the grand hail sign. Sam Houston being a good lodge member..stopped the execution and on his word ..not to fight again...released Santa Anna.

Lots of stories like this in the American Civil war too.

You know Heronumber0..I had been reading on this concealed history for some years before the light bulb went on in total shock while watching the news on the boob tube one evening. There in living colour were the Protestant Orangemen having a march or parade past some of the Catholic areas in Northern Ireland. There they were with all their heavy chained medallions around their necks their tuxedos and tophats and gloves. I had seen versions of this several times before this one finally clicked the lightbulb into the on brightly mode. The Orangemen are a masonic lodge!! What a dummy I was!! What a revelation!! THen when digging further I found out that the Catholics for centurys had thier lodge versions. Sinn Finn is a Catholic lodge. Now I doubt that most of the catholics and protestants know this ...in Ireland but It becomes obvious to me that most outside Ireland and the UK dont either. Most Englishmen have no reason to know this too.

What do you suppose the House of Orange from the Netherlands really means?? Did they not put a King and Queen on the throne of England...William and Mary of Orange.
We have a very famous college not far from me in Williamsburg, Virginia...William and Mary College. Why do you suppose the Prime ministers and the Queen when she come here always manage to stop at this particular college out of all the universities in this nation??

What is that funny square hat one wears when one graduates from high school or college?? What is its origins??...oh....a mortar board?? LOL LOL LOL!!! Nothing like a little bricklaying mortar board to show one is properly educated in Gnostic Wisdom. LOL LOL LOL!! All coincidental of course.

Amazing what one realizes when one starts thinking outside public education standards. For public education you can substitute television education standards.
I believe much of world history is covered up and re addressed to hide this connection. IN otherwords ..much of the truth about history is missing.

Thanks for a great post,
Orangetom

NO relation to Orangemen.

[edit on 5-8-2007 by orangetom1999]

[edit on 5-8-2007 by orangetom1999]

[edit on 5-8-2007 by orangetom1999]



posted on Aug, 6 2007 @ 11:57 AM
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Very intresting post and connection you have made here.

I have read of this connection some years ago while reading Nesta Webster's book "Secret Societys and Subservsive Movements."

I also recall reading something connecting Islam and Freemasonry in Edith Star Millers book "Occult Theocrasy" before moving on to Nesta Websters book.

There seems to be a connection often to such as you describe. I recall reading a Playboy article on the Sandinasta movement in Nicaragua interviewing Daniel Ortega. He states that the Communist Sandinasta movement was started by some Freemasons meeting in a bar. I got a great chuckle out of that one.


orangetom - as always, a thoughtful, wise and detailed account of your perceptions.

I have not read Nesta Webster's work except through quotations in other books. However, the mainstream media will NEVER broadcast mention of the involvement of Secret Societies in History. There is a conventional history that you and I studied in school and there is another history where deals are made behind the scenes but not commented upon.


I have heard the same thing about the Nazi party and that in the defeat of Germany after WW2 the allies moved in very quickly to extinguish any such occult connection with the western lodges...or any lodges at all.


I think there are views, unverified, that occult connection went all the way to the British Royal Family and that negotiations behind the scenes prevented the invasion of Britain by the Germans in 1940.


Want to see something very intresting..you see this several times a year on the Hitler Channel...aka..the History Channel.

Watch closely the news reels of the surrender to Douglas McArthur on the battleship Missouri in 1945. Watch the Japanese Civilians and the clothes they are wearing.

THe uniform of the lodge is a tophat tuxedo and gloves. What are the Japanese Civilian represenatives wearing? Now the Generals/Admirals ..lodge members or not wear their uniforms and surrender their swords/sidearms. But watch the civililans.
I believe most observers of this film think they are watching a standard military surrender. It is one lodge surrendering to another lodge.

I should also add that Douglas Mc Arthur was a Shriner . He is buried acros the bay from me in Norfolk, Virginia next to his wife in the Museum bearing his name. Many of his private posessions are on display to the public.


I didn't know about this at all, but I will keep a close eye on the Propaganda/History Channel.


I believe many would be shocked to find out how many of these wars are one lodge fighting another lodge...as was the case in WW1 where so many of the leaders were not only lodge members but also cousins.

I wonder what the lodge is to which the Mexican presidents belong....NAFTA?? Is it really an inside deal ...codified to make it publically acceptable?

THere are stories of the Mexican General Santa Anna when being readied for execution by firing squad...he gave the grand hail sign. Sam Houston being a good lodge member..stopped the execution and on his word ..not to fight again...released Santa Anna.

Lots of stories like this in the American Civil war too.


Again, most of the American Presidents seem to have been members of Secret Societies and I would not be surprised at other people using their membership to further their aims. It caught me by surprise to see how influential Freemasonry was in the inception and support of Muslim extremist groups. I would not be surprised if Al Qaeeda has been infiltrated at the highest levels of command but that it is politically expedient to keep OBL alive as a 'bogey man' .


You know Heronumber0..I had been reading on this concealed history for some years before the light bulb went on in total shock while watching the news on the boob tube one evening. There in living colour were the Protestant Orangemen having a march or parade past some of the Catholic areas in Northern Ireland. There they were with all their heavy chained medallions around their necks their tuxedos and tophats and gloves. I had seen versions of this several times before this one finally clicked the lightbulb into the on brightly mode. The Orangemen are a masonic lodge!! What a dummy I was!! What a revelation!! THen when digging further I found out that the Catholics for centurys had thier lodge versions. Sinn Finn is a Catholic lodge. Now I doubt that most of the catholics and protestants know this ...in Ireland but It becomes obvious to me that most outside Ireland and the UK dont either. Most Englishmen have no reason to know this too.


Completely correct. The Orangemen don't hide their connections and, I recall from my childhood watching their marches, they wear their regalia
and ranks with pride.

The Catholics certainly have Opus Dei, but I think the common Catholic has other cults that they are members of, from anecdotal experience. However, this is not an area I have read anything about.

Certainly both movements have been infiltrated. Sinn Fein was infiltrated by Denis Donaldson who became head of administration and would have had knowledge of significant (terrorist) operations. Link to Sinn Fein



posted on Aug, 6 2007 @ 12:01 PM
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What do you suppose the House of Orange from the Netherlands really means?? Did they not put a King and Queen on the throne of England...William and Mary of Orange.
We have a very famous college not far from me in Williamsburg, Virginia...William and Mary College. Why do you suppose the Prime ministers and the Queen when she come here always manage to stop at this particular college out of all the universities in this nation??


Of course, the Protestant connection was woven into the fabric of British society and no Catholic was subsequently allowed to rule Britain.


What is that funny square hat one wears when one graduates from high school or college?? What is its origins??...oh....a mortar board?? LOL LOL LOL!!! Nothing like a little bricklaying mortar board to show one is properly educated in Gnostic Wisdom. LOL LOL LOL!! All coincidental of course.


I had no idea about this - nice one orangetom.


Amazing what one realizes when one starts thinking outside public education standards. For public education you can substitute television education standards.
I believe much of world history is covered up and re addressed to hide this connection. IN otherwords ..much of the truth about history is missing.

Thanks for a great post,
Orangetom


orangetom, thanks for the detail and the deep thoughts. You have added to my education and you really should be the ATS's MVP.



posted on Aug, 6 2007 @ 04:01 PM
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Heronumber0,

Once again I must make haste off to work so I must do this quickly.

On this topic. If you ever read books on this subject..real books not the stuff of Barnes and Noble or Books a Million...what you learn and sense is that this is a seperate group with a mandate....dwelling in many nations.

A seperate group with a doctrine/dogma...that they have the right to go where ever they are and to rule. Even the degrees are feudal titles. Royalty.

This is feudalism. Royalty. A class not seen or known by most of the people it affects. When you infiltrate this system into the supposedly blind justice system thinking people can easily see what it bodes.

a justice for the feudal ruling class and a justice for the serfs.

Justice must be dispensed fairly within the ruling class...and within the serf class..but when it is between ruling class and serf...the result is obviouis.

Most are educated to think that justice is blind. They are never educated in this seperate, occult, concealed, esoteric system. They dont even know of its existance...most of them. This in my mind is one of the purposes of public education.

THe Constitution of this nation requires one system. THe Constitution of this country is an anathema to this group but they must pay at least lip service to it.

Now mind you ..most even in this group dont know of this trend....but they have managed to pull it off...kept even many within ignorant and on the patriotic treadmill. But when they are called on to carry out the oath they have taken they must do so and tell no one. Not even their wives.

This is Feudalism ...indentured servitude...for all..

Think about this in lieu of our earlier posts on racism. THen think about how ignorant most of us are on that topic as well as others.

Just some more food for thought.
Must make haste now..to shove off.

Thanks for your posts,
Orangetom



posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 12:02 AM
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I remember watching a video about the start of muslim extremism, and in the video Hasan al Bannah, the founder of the muslim brotherhood, visited America.

Can you verify this for me.



posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 01:55 PM
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BostonOrange,

There are several people of note and historical significance who have visited America.

THe most notable coming to mind is Isoroku Yamamoto who was to go on to plan the Pearl Harbor attack of December 7, 1941.
Isoroku Yamamoto was at one time attached to the Japanese Embassy in Washington DC as a military attache. As a result of his dutys he often played poker with US Admirals and Generals. So he knew how a great many of them thought...would gamble ..would bluff. This also meant he visited many of Americas Industrys..Manufacturing ie...shipbuilding etc etc.
He knew precisely what Americas status was and where over time and the duration of a war we would go. This was no ordinary Japanese officer nor embassy staff.
Isoroku Yamamoto knew exactly what the trend line of war would bode for Japan. Yet he planned and went to war anyway. This knowlege puts a very different slant on the reasons and motives for war than what is spoon fed to us in what passes for history.

If one thinks through the parallels with Radical Islam...it is also a tell tale indicator of things to come.

Heronumber0,
I had forgotten about this when making my previous two posts and take the opportunity to post it here for your review in consideration of the topic line. I think you will find this very intresting in confirmation of your overall topic.

Louis Farrakhan made a speach broadcast on nationwide television in the Million Man March back on October 17, 1995. This speech is very intresting to those who know the pattern of Masonic ritual and what Farrakhan alludes to in his speech.

I cannot seem to get the link to properly post. I typed in "Million Man March speech" into my Yahoo search engine.
The title of the article says" Minister Farrakhan Challanges Black Men."
Dated Oct. 17, 1995.

Look carefully down about mid way..where Farrakhan refers to the three ruffians. This is the pattern of the third degree Master Mason ritual of the slaying of Hiram Abiff The Master by the three ruffians.

While this is a long speech...in several places Farrakhan makes reference to the lodge and lodge patterns/ritual. Most outsiders would not know this pattern and think Louis if ranting and raving on. In otherwords this is not entirely a speech for the general public. This is also a speech for someone special among the general public. I was a bit taken back knowing the pattern of this history. But there it is..out in the open but detailed specifically for certain exclusive partys.
To me Farrakhan is telling someone special out there that he is one of them. Not the general ignorant public but someone.

I will also tell you that I have seen Frank Sinatra make similar strange speechs following a similar pattern before his death. He was making speechs on public television to specific persons ..not the general public. This is often done openly..in speech...key words and phrases..in symbols/icons..and in signs.

I have even seen this happen in the Country Music Awards by symbols. When it happens, it is so fast that the unknowlegable will totally miss it. It is designed to be that way.

Nevertheless Louis Farrakhan's speech is available on the web. I have it bookmarked for future reference. You will find it intresting in confirmation of the premise of your original post.

THese are public speechs to specific people/persons..out in the open but hidden and concealed from those not educated in the pattern or knowlege.

This is Feudalism...Royalty. It is also hidden..occult...esoteric...concealed from those not educated or worthy to receive it.

Thanks,
Orangetom



[edit on 8-8-2007 by orangetom1999]



posted on Aug, 8 2007 @ 08:21 PM
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I was asking if you could tell me if I was right about the founder of the muslim brotherhood visting america. In the video I watched on google, it said that he formed his theories based on how America was a shallow society with out any real fundamental connections.



posted on Aug, 9 2007 @ 06:01 AM
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BostonOrange,

The book I read on Islam was titled "Islam and Terrorism" by Mark Gabriel. As I recall the gist of the book several of the people in the Muslim movement have been to America. What I recall from several of them was that they were not very impressed with America and Americans vs their strict Muslim teachings.

Mark Gabriel is a converted Muslim Imam under a death sentance for converting from Muslim Faith. In his book he gives the real goal of Islam and what the media and education will not tell the public...while delivering the standard mantra of a Religion of Peace. You will also get from Mark Gabriel a sense of why so many keep silent in Islam though they do not go along with the strict beliefs of the religion.

THe person I am thinking of in relation to your question is a Muslim named Sayyid Qutb. Is this the person to whom you refer??

Try this link

en.wikipedia.org...

Hope this helps,

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 11:06 PM
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Yes, Sayyid Qutb, is the person I was talking about.

Thank you.



posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 09:49 AM
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Originally posted by orangetom1999
Heronumber0,

Once again I must make haste off to work so I must do this quickly.

On this topic. If you ever read books on this subject..real books not the stuff of Barnes and Noble or Books a Million...what you learn and sense is that this is a seperate group with a mandate....dwelling in many nations.

A seperate group with a doctrine/dogma...that they have the right to go where ever they are and to rule. Even the degrees are feudal titles. Royalty.

This is feudalism. Royalty. A class not seen or known by most of the people it affects. When you infiltrate this system into the supposedly blind justice system thinking people can easily see what it bodes.

a justice for the feudal ruling class and a justice for the serfs.


orangetom, sorry for the late reply but after a trip to Scotland, my computer monitor went on fire. After pouring two jugs of water on it, I disposed of it and got another one.

I agree with you , there is the involvement of a Royal lineage across Europe, to my knowledge, which is involved in ritual as a central theme to control of 'the masses'. Leo Zagami Illuminati
has provided reasonably logical and believable accounts of what goes on in the rituals. Attempts have been made on ATS to discredit him but I think that the weight of evidence, which I have followed up, point to his involvement in the influential P2 Lodge.



Most are educated to think that justice is blind. They are never educated in this seperate, occult, concealed, esoteric system. They dont even know of its existance...most of them. This in my mind is one of the purposes of public education.


As an educator, I have to say that one of the prime purposes of the public education system is to teach children to obey authority. The influence is so strong that in psychological tests, college students are willing to administer lethal amounts of electricity to subjects (who are actually actors) when guided by an authority figure in a white lab coat. Students as Executioners.



Now mind you ..most even in this group don't know of this trend....but they have managed to pull it off...kept even many within ignorant and on the patriotic treadmill. But when they are called on to carry out the oath they have taken they must do so and tell no one. Not even their wives.

This is Feudalism ...indentured servitude...for all..


This is the danger orangetom, obedience to another human above all ties of religion, morality, state or even family. As soon as this happens you owe your entire obedience to the agenda of your masters. I have seen this happen at first hand and these people are like babies, they seem incapable of independent thought...


Think about this in lieu of our earlier posts on racism. THen think about how ignorant most of us are on that topic as well as others.


As always, orangetom, your sensible and considered comments are always welcome.



posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 03:03 PM
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Heronumber0,

Thanks for your reply. I am sorry to hear of your computer problem I have just purchased a new laptop. My first. Takes some getting accustomed to after a full sized keyboard.

I was not aware that you were in the Education field. Great!!

Yes ..many of us are followers. I include myself in this at times. THe knowlege to teach us to think outside these control straight jackets is limited in public education. Independent thought. INdependent action.

Yes I am somewhat familiar with P2 and the events surrounding Roberto Calvi under the bridge in England. There was a book on this topic and Roberto Calvi and others associated with the Vatican Bank and P2.
Also another book detailing informations on the death of the Pope before John Paul II. This Pope if I remember lasted only about a month in the office.

I had not thought of these people being like babies as you describe...more like robots when required to carry out thier oath. I will have to consider this. But then again in consideration of your point about being like babies, if one understands anything about Luceriferianism...babylike robotism is what is required. Especially when you read about the method of control and how it is instituted.

Racism is to me another form of feudalism....control ..no matter who is practicing it.

You have done alot of reading and research on this area. May I ask what lead you to this area of thought?? Not many people are even aware of this fingerprint all around us. How is it that you came into contact with this fingerprint and taught yourself so much about it. Most people havent a clue and wouldnt believe you if you told them. Most would think you are nuts. I dont speak of this to many people.

Most folks I know are more intrested in the LA Lakers or American Idol type drivel.

How is it that you have escaped this virus so prevalent in our social structure?? Curious here??

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 06:13 AM
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Originally posted by orangetom1999
Heronumber0,

I was not aware that you were in the Education field. Great!!

Yes ..many of us are followers. I include myself in this at times. THe knowlege to teach us to think outside these control straight jackets is limited in public education. Independent thought. INdependent action.


I am in a tough working class school now and I must say that I like the tough kids who don't always follow authority. I subconsciously think: 'good for you!' However, teachers are forced to teach large groups in schools, where class control and becomes a priority. Smaller classes than 18 mean that you can teach individuals and allow independent thought. However most classes are way above twenty students in number.


Yes I am somewhat familiar with P2 and the events surrounding Roberto Calvi under the bridge in England. There was a book on this topic and Roberto Calvi and others associated with the Vatican Bank and P2.
Also another book detailing informations on the death of the Pope before John Paul II. This Pope if I remember lasted only about a month in the office.


The Calvi case was a bit strange due to the attempted cover-ups. However, I believe that a committed journalist uncovered the details that led to the trials off 4 men for his murder and publicised P2 further. Another strange detail, Calvi's secretary committed 'suicide' the day before Calvi's corpse was discovered.

I think you mean Pope John Paul I. His reign was only 33 days in 1978. There are also stories about the Vatican Bank's involvement but he also had poor health prior to taking up the Papacy so who knows?


I had not thought of these people being like babies as you describe...more like robots when required to carry out thier oath. I will have to consider this. But then again in consideration of your point about being like babies, if one understands anything about Luceriferianism...babylike robotism is what is required. Especially when you read about the method of control and how it is instituted.


I agree. What us required is complete obedience - even if it breaks the members!


Racism is to me another form of feudalism....control ..no matter who is practicing it.


I am coming round slowly to your point of view. I read the Farrakhan speech and, although he spoke of deliberate actions to divide black people and separate them from white people, he also spoke about mysteries and symbolism. I agree with what you said - either he is a Freemason or he was holding up an olive branch to them. Either way, he is going against the original precepts of the Black Muslims.


You have done alot of reading and research on this area. May I ask what lead you to this area of thought?? Not many people are even aware of this fingerprint all around us. How is it that you came into contact with this fingerprint and taught yourself so much about it. Most people havent a clue and wouldnt believe you if you told them. Most would think you are nuts. I dont speak of this to many people.

Most folks I know are more intrested in the LA Lakers or American Idol type drivel.

How is it that you have escaped this virus so prevalent in our social structure?? Curious here??


orangetom, I found two Masonic catechism cards in my garage, shortly after I moved into my new house years back, and follwed up with information. I was astounded at the use and misuse of power involved and how the media never seemed to mention Freemasonry except to present it in a positive light - I wonder why?



posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 07:10 AM
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Excuse me gentlemen for any ignorance I may show here, it's certainly not intended.

I am aware that a lot of Irish Nationalists are members of Masonic lodges, I am also aware that the Protestant Orange Order is also a Masonic lodge.
I am aware of P2 and the Masonic involvement with Italian Banking institutes and with The Vatican and The Mafia.
I think it's common knowledge that the Mason's were heavily involved in drafting the American Constitution and the founding of the USA and designing Washington DC etc.
I also think most people are aware that leading members of the British Royal Family have been, and continue to be, Masons as are members of most European Monarchs, Royal Families and Heads of State etc.
It's true that numerous US Presidents and influential people / families have been and still are Masons.
I think most of us are also aware of allegations of numerous interactions between all of these groups / societies / affiliations etc.

Now we have had Heronumber0, orangetom1999 et al highlight links with various Masonic sects / societies etc with Nazi's, Japanese Military and Industrial Leaders, South American political leaders, The Muslim Brotherhood and various Islamic preachers of Islamic fundamentalism.

Now we know that between them, these people have been at the heart of most, if not all, major armed conflicts throughout the world for goodness how long. They have also been the beneficiaries of most of the subsequent financial gain etc.

It is also a common belief here on ATS that these are also the people who are about to usher in NWO and possibly Armageddon and End Times etc.

Now my question is, why? What have they got to gain? According to this theory "they" already control the policies of most leading countries in the world, "they" control most leading financial institutes, control population levels through instigating war and famine as a result of "their" economic policies. In essence "they" already control everything "they" need to so why?

I understand this may be slightly off thread but i've never understood this and the ATS'ers on this thread seem to have a more in depth understanding than I.



posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 03:49 PM
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Freeborn and others,

Intresting question you have asked here. Also the correct question to ask in the context of the posts on this thread.

The obvious answer is that they dont in fact control everything to the extend that they or someone would like. But they dont necessarily want us or the public to know this.

Also I dont actually think that much of this is common knowlege. I believe most Americans know more about American Idol and the gods of sports than this topic...or most other topics for that matter.

Here is what my research has lead me to..in conclusion of the patterns I have observed. There is a war going on and has been for milleniums. The warfare has not been between Christians and non believers per se...it has mostly been between nonbelievers and participants of this religion.
Under the title of Non Believers..you can insert various groups of these peoples or leaders of Masonic influences. In otherwords they have been fighting amongst themselves for milleniums for control and entitlement of this earth.l What they dont let outsiders know is that this is going on. Hence outsiders can get involved in thier wars and die by the millions and never know what is going on..and ready themselves for the next war.

Our educational systems are structured to conceal this knowlege as these people are wont to say or declare in certain of their books and or articles.

The struggle is for the absolute mastery of everything. This knowlege is to be kept hidden and concealed from those not worthy to receive it. This includes members of these lodges also. They may not be worthy to receive it themselves. You will find this jucy tidbit in the last chapter of "Morals and Dogma " by Albert Pike. That is if you can even find a good copy of this book.

The long range historical technique seems to be to get the world involved and embroiled in a series of wars with pre determined outcomes to where the world will mold themselves to thier hands and plans to prevent the next war.

This method combined with keeping nations in perpetual debt to world banks insures the outcomes of these wars. Most all nations are in a state of perpetual debt to large commercial banks who operate on a world wide basis. The members of thier governments are usually people recommended by these banks and insurance companys for office. This too gaurantees the outcomes and also the fates of anyone in governments who goes against their wishs.

It is also my belief that to kill certain highly placed members or leaders in these groups is not allowed without special permission.

IF Adolph Hitler was one of them they got special permission to go afer him and members of his staff. Same with Saddam. I think this was to maintain certain secrets about what was really going on.

I think that Yasser Arafat was a member. Cant prove this but I do know that a sniper had him in their sights and permission to shoot was not granted from on high. You dont have to buy into this ..it is just my speculation here.

Well I could go on more but I think you get the idea. Basically the reason is that they are not as far along as most think. These people too have problems themselves. They have players who get or operate outside thier instructions and have to be reigned in or gotten rid of to maintain the secrecy and order.

If you read certain books what is wanted is the "Restoration of the True Brotherhood."

A careful read of this and variations of this theme is that there was a time in the past where the perfect world ..the perfect utopia existed on this earth and they desire to go back to this pattern. "The Restoration of the True Brotherhood " is a watch word for this. Whenever I see this word...restoration ..turning up my radar peaks up automataically.

This utopia is what was existant on this earth in pre flood times.
What is wanted is a return to the status quo of pre flood earth.

That is your question to be answered...what was the world like pre flood??
What were men like?? Their status ? And the other related question is how does this tie into the "Absolute mastery of everything."

Egypt is adored and worshiped in knowlege as it is the most perfect example of the pre flood goal. All of these groups end to hold up Egypt and the Ancient Egyptians as a example of something great to be emulated...revered.

There is more to this but this will suffice for now.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 06:19 PM
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Do you believe that members of the now surging Islamic fundamentalists are members of these "lodges"? Or could they be described as the non-believer side, because I find it hard to link a radical Muslim with pagan beliefs that the lodges follow.



posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 06:23 PM
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Never mind!!


[edit on 14-8-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]



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