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INS Vikramaditya delayed until 2011

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posted on Aug, 2 2007 @ 01:14 AM
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Shipbuilder Head Fired Over Delay
Combined Reports


Vladimir Pastukhov has been dismissed as general director of Sevmash shipyard, the country's largest shipbuilding enterprise, over the company's failure to fulfill a $1.5 billion contract to modernize an aircraft carrier sold to India in 2004, Interfax reported Wednesday.

"The reason for Pastukhov's dismissal is the failure to carry out the contract to re-equip and modernize the aircraft carrier on behalf of the Indian navy," a source at Sevmash told Interfax. "The contract is delayed for three years. ... The realistic date ... is now 2011."

Under the contract, Sevmash shipyard was due by 2008 to upgrade and re-equip the ship, built in 1987, to combine the power of a missile cruiser and capabilities of an aircraft carrier.

Indian media and officials have said the ship, with a squadron of MIG-29 jet fighters on board, would considerably enhance the firepower of the Indian navy and bring nuclear rival China within range. India is the only country in South Asia that has an aircraft carrier, an issue of concern for some of its smaller neighbors.

Interfax quoted the Sevmash source as saying that miscalculating the amount of work needed to renovate the ship had led to problems.

"After a more detailed examination was conducted, it became clear that the ship's technological condition is awful and that money allocated for the renovation is not enough," he said.

The source at Sevmash also said the most likely replacement for Pastukhov would be Nikolai Kalistratov, who is currently general director of Zvyozdochka ship-repair plant, Interfax reported. (Reuters, MT)



India's own locally made carrier may be in service before this re-furbished Russian one is ready. The carrier was given to India for free on the condition that it would be modernized by the Russian and armed with a Russian air arm.




posted on Aug, 2 2007 @ 01:21 AM
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posted on Aug, 2 2007 @ 03:44 AM
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Hey can I have the source for that?

There are a lot of reports going around about the same and I would like to see the exact date on that article to put it into perspective with respect to the developing story on this.



posted on Aug, 2 2007 @ 04:24 AM
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Okay got the article..
Aug 1 07'.

I will try to get some local info on this.



posted on Aug, 2 2007 @ 05:17 AM
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hmmmm i can honestly see HMS Invincible going that way now tbh - the INS Viraat is 55 years old next year and really needs replacing soon.


edit


in.news.yahoo.com...

link to news article for first post.

[edit on 2/8/07 by Harlequin]



posted on Aug, 2 2007 @ 08:23 AM
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Originally posted by Harlequin
hmmmm i can honestly see HMS Invincible going that way now tbh - the INS Viraat is 55 years old next year and really needs replacing soon.


edit


in.news.yahoo.com...

link to news article for first post.

[edit on 2/8/07 by Harlequin]


No way..
The Invincible is not built to hold fighters that are required to meet India's maritime role.

It will be the Vikramaditya; delays or not

The Viraat will be in service till 2010 anyways I should think.



posted on Aug, 2 2007 @ 08:35 AM
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Well unless they somehow got rid of them in the last few minutes - the navy fly Harriers - which of course the RN do (or did) as well...

so the invincible would be a good use ASW command ship for them (all IMO of course)



posted on Aug, 2 2007 @ 08:53 PM
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The link for the first article was at the Moscow times

Buying the invincible would not be in India's best interest. By the time it enters Indian service, there will be more capable ships in service as well as fighters



posted on Aug, 3 2007 @ 01:15 AM
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Originally posted by Harlequin
Well unless they somehow got rid of them in the last few minutes - the navy fly Harriers - which of course the RN do (or did) as well...

so the invincible would be a good use ASW command ship for them (all IMO of course)


Rid of what?


Using an aircraft carrier, an extra one at that for the sole purpose of ASW ops(again which are not fixed-wing a/c dependant) would not be cost efficient.

The projected influencial reach of the IN post 2015 is to span from the Straits of Hormuz to the Straits of Malacca and all the way from the shores of Madagascar to those of western Australia. Fighter reach and sufficient weapons throw is paramount for that. Having the Invincible 'in place' of the Vikramaditya would not meet these requirements. Having the Invincible as an extra STOVL platform, would be a good add-on to the Vikramaditya and the indigneous ADS carrier.
However I doubt the defence budget would accomodate all ships.



posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 04:27 AM
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Another update on the Gorshkov Delivery Saga.



"Officially the Russian government has communicated to us in writing that Gorshkov will be delivered on schedule. If the situation were to change we would have been communicated in writing," Sibal said commenting on media reports about delay in the delivery of Kiev class aircraft carrier to the Indian navy.

"We have monitoring teams on the ground at Sevmash shipyard and are aware of the situation on the ground," the envoy said addressing a news conference here at the end of his three year Moscow stint.

Earlier, Russian media had reported about the delay of two-three years in delivery of retrofitted aircraft carrier against the delivery schedule of August 2008, mainly due to cost escalation and ill financing.



Every Indian defence deal has an aura of suspense and intrigue about it nowadays!
Almost like a suspense movie

One can imagine athe amount of slush funding et al that must be going on in the background!



posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 04:44 AM
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Theres more to this situation, seems like the IAC is running behind schedule as well


After Gorshkov, another Navy project hit by delay

NEW DELHI: The bad news for Navy shows no sign of stopping. The country's most ambitious ship-building project, construction of a 37,500-tonne indigenous aircraft carrier (IAC) at Cochin shipyard, is running way behind schedule. Sources said current projections show IAC will be ready for delivery to Navy earliest by 2015, after completion of construction and trials, instead of the earlier date of 2011-2012.

The IAC project, cleared by the government in January 2003 at a cost of Rs 3,261 crore after several years of dilly-dallying, is lagging behind on "almost all fronts".

"First, there was a big problem in getting 20,000 tonnes of special quality steel for it till SAIL stepped in. Then, there was a huge delay in procurement of bulb bars. Once these was sorted out, other problems crept in," a source said.

"The detailed designs and pre-production work also took a lot of time. As per revised plans, the keel of the warship was to be laid in October 2007 but this has been postponed by at least an year now. Consequently, the project cost will also go up substantially," he added.

All this will add to the woes of Navy, already grappling with huge delays in some big-ticket projects. The induction of the decommissioned Russian aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov, for instance, will not be possible before 2010. Rechristened INS Vikramaditya, this 44,570-tonne carrier was supposed to be operationally ready by August 2008, as per the Rs 6,900 crore package deal signed with Russia in January 2004.

Then, of course, there are slippages in the gigantic Rs 18,798 crore project to construct six Scorpene submarines at Mazagon Docks, slated for delivery between 2012 and 2017.

In the IAC project, the government has even signed two contracts worth 28 million Euros with Italian firm Fincantieri for design, integration, installation and commissioning of the IAC's propulsion system, apart from consultancy in detailed engineering and documentation.

"But despite the steel being cut at the Cochin shipyard in April 2005, the ship construction began only in November 2006," said the source.

To be charitable, one can argue this is the first time India is building an aircraft carrier, which has been the preserve of only US, UK, Russia and France so far.

But almost all defence projects of India suffer from huge time and cost overruns, underlining the lack of proper planning. Though the Navy has projected the need for three aircraft carriers to emerge as the most potent force in the region, it is making do with only one, the 50-year-old INS Viraat, at the moment. Be that as it may, once it is ready, the 252-metre-long IAC will have two runways with ski-jumps and a landing strip with three arrester wires, with the flight deck being around 2.5 acres.

With 160 officers and 1,400 sailors, the ship will be able to carry 12 MiG-29Ks, eight Tejas Light Combat Aircraft and 10 helicopters. Powered by four LM2500 gas turbines generating 80 MW, the carrier will be able to attain a maximum speed of 28 knots and be operationally deployed for 45 days at a stretch.
India Times



posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 05:29 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite
Theres more to this situation, seems like the IAC is running behind schedule as well


After Gorshkov, another Navy project hit by delay

NEW DELHI: The bad news for Navy shows no sign of stopping. The country's most ambitious ship-building project, construction of a 37,500-tonne indigenous aircraft carrier (IAC) at Cochin shipyard, is running way behind schedule. Sources said current projections show IAC will be ready for delivery to Navy earliest by 2015, after completion of construction and trials, instead of the earlier date of 2011-2012.

The IAC project, cleared by the government in January 2003 at a cost of Rs 3,261 crore after several years of dilly-dallying, is lagging behind on "almost all fronts".

"First, there was a big problem in getting 20,000 tonnes of special quality steel for it till SAIL stepped in. Then, there was a huge delay in procurement of bulb bars. Once these was sorted out, other problems crept in," a source said.

"The detailed designs and pre-production work also took a lot of time. As per revised plans, the keel of the warship was to be laid in October 2007 but this has been postponed by at least an year now. Consequently, the project cost will also go up substantially," he added.




hmmm.. an unnamed source..

Its wonders what lengths the media will go to keep the fire burning under a 'hot' story(here the Gorshkov delay).

Nevertheless, the delay seems to be of a year by the looks of it. Lets wait for more sources on the developing story.

Some updates(May 07) on the IAC and beyond:


Project Update: Construction commenced with plate cutting on 11 April 2005. The keel is planned to be laid down in 2007. In an information session in Parliament, on 16 May 2007, Defence Minister A K Antony stated that induction of a third aircraft carrier is envisioned by 2017. He added that a decision to construct another vessel can be made only after the construction of the first ship has progressed beyond a certain state. This would suggest a keel laying date of post October 2010, which is the tentative launch date of the first ship.


So a new '3rd' carrier along with the IAC and the Gorshkov is envisioned for 2017.
I doubt the above delay reports would endanger that 'vision' as lots of lessons would be learnt while building the IAC.

If the 3rd carrier materializes then India would be able to maintain 3 separate CBGs for most of time barring a few years between 2010 and 2020. If all are to operate in the Indian Ocean then that would give the IN supremacy in the region.

EDIT: Quote tweaks

[edit on 14-8-2007 by Daedalus3]



posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3
Having the Invincible as an extra STOVL platform, would be a good add-on to the Vikramaditya and the indigneous ADS carrier.
However I doubt the defence budget would accomodate all ships.


then


Originally posted by Daedalus3
If the 3rd carrier materializes then India would be able to maintain 3 separate CBGs for most of time barring a few years between 2010 and 2020. If all are to operate in the Indian Ocean then that would give the IN supremacy in the region.


changed your mind?

i can still see the INS getting Invincible to replace Viraat as i`ve recenetly read that they intened to fly the Harrier for another 10 years - 2 ships with MiG-29k and 1 for the harrier would work well.



posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 05:27 AM
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This is a Indian source. Its not believable from my viewpoint since Russian sources have already reported major sackings because of the extended time frame. Your thoughts Daedalus3?


‘Russia will deliver Gorshkov on time’

Moscow, August 13: Indian ambassador to Moscow, Kanwal Sibal said here today heavy aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov, being modernised at Shevmash shipyard in Severodvinsk for Indian Navy, will be completed on schedule.

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“We have a monitoring team in Shevmash. We are aware of the position on the ground,” Sibal said at a press conference, referring to the press reports that Russia will not complete the project on schedule because of lack of money and mismanagement.

“Officially, so far, the Russian Government has told us in writing that the project will be completed on schedule,” he said adding “If the situation were to change, then we will naturally hear officially from the Russian Government.”

The carrier is to be inducted into the Indian Navy as INS Vikramaditya by the end of 2008.

www.indianexpress.com...



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 02:53 AM
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Originally posted by Harlequin
.....
changed your mind?
.....


Well not really, but always try to keep an open one!




i can still see the INS getting Invincible to replace Viraat as i`ve recenetly read that they intened to fly the Harrier for another 10 years - 2 ships with MiG-29k and 1 for the harrier would work well.



As far as I know, this 3rd 'proposed' carrier would be an indigenous one too. So that kinda rules out the Invincible option.

Also if they plan to fly harriers for another 10 years(as of today) then I'm pretty sure they'll do it off the Viraat. The Viraat definitely has another 10 years in her and I've heard this from many an ex-CO. It would be much more cost-effective to do this rather than buy the Invincible.

Recently I've been reading a lot about the successors to the MiG-29K and Naval LCAs being F-35Bs(post 2030). Maybe this will serve as a stop-gap (or addendum) for a naval version of the 5th gen fighter? You're guess is as good as mine.



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 03:05 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite

This is a Indian source. Its not believable from my viewpoint since Russian sources have already reported major sackings because of the extended time frame. Your thoughts Daedalus3?



Well frankly speaking I believe all sources regarding such things and others(the JF-17 engine seesaw comes to mind) are as credible, rather non-credible as each other.

But, in this case the Indian Ambassador is making a public statement and that counts for something,something more than any media reports, Indian or Russian. Infact his statement qualifies as the official stance/statement release by the Indian Government.

So I'm sure he'd have loaded his head before he shot off this statement, .i.e. there is definitely some concrete info on which he is basing his statements.

The sacking of the project director may be true; but you never know if all of its true or if the situation's changed or someone is twisting someone's arms etc etc..
After all we live in a world of half-truths!


However in the end, action speaks louder than words.
So lets just wait for more sources to confirm/refute this. Better yet lets just wait till the end of 08!



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 04:17 AM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3
So I'm sure he'd have loaded his head before he shot off this statement


An official statement. Thats a lie in any language



He didn't seem to know anything which means he wasn't informed of the sacking. The Ambassador wouldn't be the first one to know about any delays, i would imagine the defense minister or someone connected to a defense industry



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 06:10 AM
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^^

Aahh then you need to look into how a high commision or an embassy functions.

Everything(especially things of such magnitude)is routed through the embassy and thus the ambassador except for the hotlines between the President's Office and the PMO.

If there was total truth in the delay, I doubt the ambassador would go out and directly refute such claims by assuring delivery on time.

You possibly cannot believe that somebody in his position would say
something like this without consulting his defence attaches(the actual military link between the two countries) and/or the Russian(and Indian) Defence Ministries.

EDIT: Thus I'm quite convinced that he was appraised of the project director's dismissal if he didn't initiate or convey that request himself.


[edit on 16-8-2007 by Daedalus3]



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 06:47 AM
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I disagree about the viraat - when she returned to the fleet after her refit in 2001- they gave her 10 years of life left then - that 10 years is up in 40 months time.



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 08:18 AM
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Originally posted by Harlequin
I disagree about the viraat - when she returned to the fleet after her refit in 2001- they gave her 10 years of life left then - that 10 years is up in 40 months time.



Yes but 'they' are giving her another 10 now.. until 2015 or so I believe..
And by 'they' I mean her crew past and present.

Anyways its upto the big guys to take that call.
I'm not saying the Invincible is out of the question; I just feel that option is extremely unlikely.



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