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Why do people NEED to believe?

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posted on Aug, 1 2007 @ 03:35 AM
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Its obvious that, reading through many of the threads and posts here, then some people really feel a need to believe in Aliens or UFO's actually being on this planet.
Whilst there is probably a case to be made for UFO's, (simply because they are unidentified) there is no such case for Aliens

Many posts are so easily explainable as natural phenomena, camera pixelation, bad light, shadows etc yet people will continue discussions ad infinitum, defending their belief against the most vociferous of explanations.

Certain posts are so obviously invented scenarios by some posters, seemingly in an attempt to gain some sort of credibility for actually having seen one. One poster yesterday even stated he had seen an 'alien' or UFO in the same place on several occasions but failing to obtain any photographic evidence to prove his point

Even on the WWW there are some sites even giving descriptions of 'Greys' 'Reptilians' and others, and some people oh so casually refer to some 'aliens' as "Your typical grey" as if seeing one was such an everyday event.

It would seem that some people really need to believe in Aliens on this planet, but for what reasons? That is what I cannot understand




posted on Aug, 1 2007 @ 03:48 AM
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Its only a need if you operate under the assumption that they don't exist. If you view the controversy objectively, we can not rule out the possibility of Alien visitation. When carefully looked at, all the photographic and video evidence, eyewitness testimony, points to a very legitimate possibility of intelligent life observing the events on Earth.

In fact, people do not believe in Alien visitation for crude reasons. If you examine the evidence without a bias you can make an informed decision. Logic would even suggest a likelihood of Alien visitation. Think about this: scientists recently teleported small particles. What will we be capable of in 1000 years? I think it is quite likely that ancient interstellar civilizations, perhaps millions of years old, regularly observe events on other planets including earth.



posted on Aug, 1 2007 @ 04:33 AM
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Your argument can be completely turned on it's head and changed to 'Its obvious that, reading through many of the threads and posts here, then some people really feel a need NOT to believe in Aliens or UFO's actually being on this planet'.

To say that something can be explained away by something else is a completely disingenious argument. ANYTHING can be explained away. I could, for example, explain your penchant for explaining every sighting as 'lanterns' as most likely due to your being a 'lantern manufacturer' , and you are just taking every conceivable opportunity to promote your product.... It's an explanation, isn't it?... lol . Of course, another explanation is that you actually believe them to be lanterns, or that you have an obsessive need to explain everything away as lanterns. There is of course the remote possibility that you could be right, and they are all lanterns.


To explain something as being something else is a very easy thing to do. It's especially easy with regards to UFOs. However, unless I'm given a good reason not to, I'd much rather accept the first-hand testimony of an actual observer, than that of an armchair pundit. They were there, the pundit wasn't. They know what they saw, the pundit can only speculate and (occasionally) make an informed GUESS. I say 'occasionally' cause some of the explanations for UFO sightings that I hear, coming ffom the Peanut Gallery, are way WAY more ridiculous than some of the more outrageous stories of sightings.

When you take together historical, archeological, mythological & anecdotal evidence, the case for aliens having always being here is pretty compelling. Notice I said 'evidence', not 'proof'. Depending on which side of the debate you approach it from, you can either make a compelling case (if you believe it to be true), or can argue that there is no proof (which, st the moment, is also true) and dismiss the whole subject... but the latter would be to ignore a lot of evidence.



posted on Aug, 1 2007 @ 04:46 AM
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Originally posted by Chorlton
Certain posts are so obviously invented scenarios by some posters, seemingly in an attempt to gain some sort of credibility for actually having seen one. One poster yesterday even stated he had seen an 'alien' or UFO in the same place on several occasions but failing to obtain any photographic evidence to prove his point

Even on the WWW there are some sites even giving descriptions of 'Greys' 'Reptilians' and others, and some people oh so casually refer to some 'aliens' as "Your typical grey" as if seeing one was such an everyday event.

It would seem that some people really need to believe in Aliens on this planet, but for what reasons? That is what I cannot understand



The same reason people need to believe in religion. I would say its programmed into us. The vast majority of belief in "aliens" isnt very scientific and like I said has its roots in the same reasons we believe religion.

If one begins to study the phenomena objectively so called Greys and Nordics and such dont seem like advanced alien civilizations. They share similarities with Elves and Hobgoblins of folklore and legend at least in Europe. If you begin looking into the consistency of human beliefs and cultures you begin to pick up on patterns, that the founder of Analytical Psychology Carl Jung called Archetypes. A student of his Joseph Campbell found these Archetypes in every human culture.

What we call Aliens are just a modern manfestation of a universal phenomena that has been around as long as we have. At first one would think like Carl Sagan did that this means this universal thought just means our brains are all wired the same way. If it stayed just in our minds I would agree with him.

Yet two things seem disagree with Sagan's viewpoint. One is physical traces. The other is the Phenomena seems to define itself through the use of memes independently of our own memetic engineering.

Unless the human mind is capable of spontaneously generating memeplexes that are beyond the generators intelligence and knowledge while simultaneously generating psychokinetic effects I'm going to have to go with the idea that its a non human intelligence(s) thats responsible.

Regardless were programmed to believe in something. What exactly you believe is entirely your choice. Believe whatever you want to believe. Me personally I like the Rabbit hole.



posted on Aug, 1 2007 @ 05:04 AM
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I "believe" in aliens and ufos but I don't know what they are and until I know what they are, the words "aliens" and "UFOs" will have to do, they're just labels. It doesn't mean I believe there is another species of creature living on our planet, nor that we're being visited by ships from other planets, though there could be, I believe anything is possible. I've seen an exotic looking flying machine, (UFO) at quite close range, that's why I can't debunk the subject & that's how I know they exist, (whatever they are). I've met many "alleged" abductees and minutes after meeting one group I experienced poltergeist activity and "hallucinations". ... What a coincidence! ..... I've no choice but to believe SOMETHING'S THERE. It's not that I "need to know", it's more like I need to know more.I have many theories, and I change my mind as to what's my favourite one probably every week. It's a difficult subject but very genuine and I think it's very important. My favourite at the minute is that the creatures & craft are military black-budget created Tulpas. As for the photos flying around the internet, most are birds, insects, dandelion seeds or whatever, but some are probably genuine. I had a photo opportunity with a UFO in March 2004. I left my partner watching the craft while I ran to get my camera. I have a slight disability and can't run very fast. By the time I got the camera the object had moved higher into the sky. The camera was only a 2mp. It then took a couple of seconds to get it in the viewfinder then I started snapping. The pics are bad and worthless, but the object's there & it's a REAL UFO, no hallucination, and not a bird, plane, bumblebee or anything else.

[edit on 1-8-2007 by wigit]



posted on Aug, 1 2007 @ 05:09 AM
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Some people don't need to 'believe' in aliens, they KNOW that they are true. Some people claim to have seen them and interacted with them. They know. That surpasses all belief.

So, if you were not there to experience it, then you really can't say one way or another if they were seen, or not.

Chorlton, you choose to not believe in aliens, as you have not seen them. Fine, no worries. Sure, many people lie about it and that's ok too. Those people are not worth listening to. I'll glady toss out a thousand frauds if I have to, just to read one good case that stands up to all scrutiny.

However, while you throw out all of the crap cases, be careful that you don't toss out any cases that may possibly be true. You were not there to see what all of those people saw, so you make a fairly damning judgement about them, if you refute what they all say. Maybe you're right most of the time, but there's a chance you're also wrong about a couple of them. I don't know and neither do you. That's why typing about the unknown in any form of absolute generality can be dangerously flawed.



posted on Aug, 1 2007 @ 05:10 AM
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Originally posted by Dagar
Your argument can be completely turned on it's head and changed to 'Its obvious that, reading through many of the threads and posts here, then some people really feel a need NOT to believe in Aliens or UFO's actually being on this planet'.

Thats a pretty facile argument isnt it?. Non believers dont put forwards unbelieveable explanations for there being aliens before someone as posted a tottaly untrue story of a supposed 'sighting'



product.... It's an explanation, isn't it?... lol . Of course, another explanation is that you actually believe them to be lanterns, or that you have an obsessive need to explain everything away as lanterns. There is of course the remote possibility that you could be right, and they are all lanterns.



The point being is that if someone has seen something, like lanterns, many many times before, has seen their movements speed and seen many many of them at differing hights then sees something exactly the same, he would want to state they are indeed lanterns.
And I wasnt 'possibly' right in the instance you mentioned, I was right, they were indeed lanterns as was proved by later evidence.
But to see some of the amazing and rather startlingly unbelievable explanations people came up with for those light?. They were prepared to believe and suggest the most outrageous things yet werent prepared to even consider the most obvious.



To explain something as being something else is a very easy thing to do. It's especially easy with regards to UFOs. However, unless I'm given a good reason not to, I'd much rather accept the first-hand testimony of an actual observer, than that of an armchair pundit.

I would rather look at the simplest most logical expalantion first, then when those were proven completely untenable move on to something else.



They were there, the pundit wasn't. They know what they saw, the pundit can only speculate and (occasionally) make an informed GUESS.

But in so many (not all) the explanations that people have made, they didnt 'Know' what they saw at all, they were guessing. then there are those posts from people which are so obviously hoaxes, how do you explain the logicality of people that post those?



I say 'occasionally' cause some of the explanations for UFO sightings that I hear, coming ffom the Peanut Gallery, are way WAY more ridiculous than some of the more outrageous stories of sightings.

Its mostly those that I question and was the main point of my OP. WHY do they do it?


When you take together historical, archeological, mythological & anecdotal evidence, the case for aliens having always being here is pretty compelling.


Ive seen some strange things brought up from history, but I find nothing compelling in anything. Merely very natural things seen by people with little or no knowledge of the weirdness of the world we live in. A world which still has no explanations for many things, but simply because we havent an explantion for something is no reason to call it Alien contrived invented or placed


Notice I said 'evidence', not 'proof'. Depending on which side of the debate you approach it from, you can either make a compelling case (if you believe it to be true), or can argue that there is no proof (which, st the moment, is also true) and dismiss the whole subject... but the latter would be to ignore a lot of evidence.

But you must have seen thos posts from your 'Peanut Gallery' where people have made the most outrageous of statements about Aliens, Greys, Reptilians, Depp underground Military bases nhabitted by Greys and Reptilians?
Why do they do it?



posted on Aug, 1 2007 @ 05:16 AM
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Originally posted by tezzajw
Chorlton, you choose to not believe in aliens, as you have not seen them. Fine, no worries.


Strangely enough I neither believe nor disbelieve. If someone comes up with compelling enough evidenceI could believe, but as of today, I havent seen anything. I have however seen strange unexplainable things in the sky and have read sufficient reports from people I respect to believe that there are indeed a lot of UFO's. Now whether they are extra terrestrial or not is the question.



That's why typing about the unknown in any form of absolute generality can be dangerously flawed.


And that should be as true of the 'Ive seen an alien' crew as of the sceptics, yes?



posted on Aug, 1 2007 @ 06:02 AM
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And that should be as true of the 'Ive seen an alien' crew as of the sceptics, yes?


An absolute can only apply if the person has first hand experience.

To someone who has seen an alien their existance is a self-evident truth.

To someone who hasn't it can actually go one of two ways. You can either chose to believe the person who has seen one, in which case 'Aliens exist' becomes part of your reality... or chose not to believe them, in which case that person (like yourself) will not believe the existance of aliens to be true.



posted on Aug, 1 2007 @ 06:23 AM
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I agree that there is a lot of false information posted with regards to aliens & UFOs. The faith shown by those who believe is akin to the faith a religious man has in God, or the faith that a hard line sceptic has that there is a rational, mundane explanation to every "unexplained" thing we have ever heard about.

I've seen some completely ridiculous things posted in my time on ATS. From pictures of seagulls presented as alien spacecraft, to video game screenshots presented as proof of secret underground bases. However, No amount of misplaced beliefs, hoaxes, or lies told by bandwagon jumpers will change the fact that unexplained sightings do occur, and by dismissing them all out of hand based on our own sometimes narrow field of vision, we are in danger of missing some truly remarkable stories.

It brings to mind the story recounted by Robert Anton Wilson, about the dumb cat who sat on the hot stove once and never did it again. Why was the cat dumb? Because it never sat on a cold stove again either.

I thought I might share with you three stories regarding UFOs that I believe are still unexplained to illustrate my point.


Foo Fighters

The term foo fighter was used by Allied aircraft pilots in World War II to describe various UFOs or mysterious aerial phenomena seen in the skies over Europe and the Pacific theatre. Contemporary witnesses often assumed that the foo fighters were secret weapons employed by the enemy, and it was not until after the war that it was discovered neither side had anything to do with them. Despite these fears, foo fighters (whatever they might have been) were apparently never reported to have harmed or tried to harm anyone. To this day the case remains unexplained.



Source.



The Battle of Los Angeles

In early 1942 the United States was still reeling from the Attack on Pearl Harbor. They'd declared war upon the Empire of Japan, but had thus far fought unsuccessfully in every engagement. The West Coast was wary, and prepared for a seemingly inevitable invasion. Cities from Seattle to San Diego had invasion plans including things from air-raid sirens to blackout procedures. Nerves were drawn taut, and there was no shortage of false alarms.

On the night of 24 February 1942 the Air Raid sirens sounded, and the Coast Guard Anti-aircraft guns were ordered to "green alert," putting them in readiness to fire. From the time the battle began until it ended in the early hours of the morning, thousands of people had witnessed the search lights around Los Angeles fix on a target hovering above the city, and anti-aircraft rounds detonate in the sky. Reputable news agencies reported the attack, complete with eye-witness accounts. But the Japanese claim that they never attacked, and there was no wreckage to indicate that anyone actually did. These conflicting accounts cast uncertainty on the nature of the unidentified aircraft that caused the Battle of Los Angeles.



Source.



Belgium's Black Triangles

On March 30, 1990, citizens of the city of Ans, Belgium spotted a large black triangular craft that hovered silently over the city for several minutes. Local police officials arrived on the scene and reported observing the object as it hovered over apartment buildings. One officer reported the object released a red glowing disk of light from the center that flew down to the ground and darted around several buildings before disappearing. The larger craft eventually took off at high speed.

The Belgian Air Force scrambled F-16s to pursue the craft once it was spotted on ground radar systems. Both the fighter pilots and radar operators reported the object would dart ahead at incredible speeds every time they finally had a radar lock on the craft. One pilot reported the object's speed at over 900 knots. After 9 confirmed target locks the object finally vanished off their screens.



Source.


These are, as far as I am aware, all unexplained to this day. It is stories such as these that reinforce my belief that no matter how smart we would like to think we are, we really don't know the whole story when it comes to the reality we inhabit.

When you have open minded people ready to entertain such possibilities, then those who seek a little notoriety have an opportunity to prey upon them. They can make themselves feel oh so clever by being able to deceive many people, laugh at how dumb people can be, and feel superior knowing that they would never be so stupid as to fall for material such as that which they themselves have created. Perhaps they do it just to break the monotony of the daily grind, to find the attention that they lack in their everyday lives. Perhas they do it to be the centre of attention, and have a large number of people know their name. These people doubtless exist. There have been enough hoaxes exposed on this site alone to support the notion.

Just as those who believe in a God see it's work in everything they survey, then those who hold a belief in aliens may look to to whatever they themselves do not understand as proof of their existence. Perhaps it is because the thought of being alone on such a messed up little planet is so disconcerting, what with all the conflict destruction and death, it brings comfort to think that somewhere out there there are races of beings who are not living in such a savage manner. Benevolent beings who roam the stars, unencumbered by such mammalian politics.

My own personal belief is that it is completely ludicrous to believe that in a universe as vast as ours, we are the only safe haven for life. I'm sure that there are other forms out there somewhere. However, I'm not entirely sure that they have been here. Examples such as those posted above however, certainly illustrate the fact that it remains a possibility.

It seems to me, that the trick is to keep an open mind, no matter how much crap you are confronted with.

[edit on 1/8/07 by Implosion]



posted on Aug, 1 2007 @ 06:32 AM
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When carefully looked at, all the photographic and video evidence, eyewitness testimony, points to a very legitimate possibility of intelligent life observing the events on Earth.


I don't think they are so intelligent. I mean they can't fly straight, can't hold still for photos and videos, and always, always forgot to turn their parking lights of during clandestine nocturnal observational outings. Aliens, maybe. Intelligent....nope.



posted on Aug, 1 2007 @ 06:37 AM
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I don't need to believe; I just want to know one way or the other.

I think it has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the government is not telling us something concerning this issue -- you only have to look at their actions surrounding documents (finally) released through FOIA and the contents therein to know that. The questions are what is being hidden and why?



posted on Aug, 1 2007 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by Chorlton
Strangely enough I neither believe nor disbelieve. If someone comes up with compelling enough evidenceI could believe, but as of today, I havent seen anything.


This is were your arguement falls apart, because what you consider non evidence for some people they are facts. Many people believe for various reasons, first hand contact or knowledge, sightings, research all those things that you have mentions that have lead you to conclude that there is no proof.

I believe in the possibility of life outside this planet, any kind of life would be fine by me, from the bacterial type to the intergalactic travel type. I personally has seen nothing yet, but I'm open to the possibility but I won't judge anyone that has already come to a opinion on the subject because may be they are a step ahead of me.

All we can do is analyze what is presented and come to our personal opinion., if you don't happen to experience it first hand.

[edit on 1-8-2007 by Bunch]

[edit on 1-8-2007 by Bunch]



posted on Aug, 1 2007 @ 04:31 PM
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Originally posted by Chorlton
Its obvious that, reading through many of the threads and posts here, then some people really feel a need to believe in Aliens or UFO's actually being on this planet.
Whilst there is probably a case to be made for UFO's, (simply because they are unidentified) there is no such case for Aliens


Yes, UFO's are everywhere. 'Flying Saucers' and 'Gravity Distortion' I think is what you are trying to point to. Those are 100% real. I have seen one. I think that there were humans on board but I do not know that for sure (this is why people believe in aliens). Yes, I have heard some STUPID explanations as to what I saw from people who were not there with me. Denying the truth or ridiculing the messenger is just a symptom of ignorance.

When you see something that isn't in any text book and is denied as being possible by scientific minds you wonder where that kind of technology actually comes from.

The implications that come along with high-end technology that is denied and refuted changes the way the world we know should be viewed from political, religious, scientific, historical (everything) viewpoints.



posted on Aug, 1 2007 @ 04:41 PM
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If you were to see a UFO moving strangely, you would not believe?
Would you come post it here and have someone who is like yourself
tell you that either A)You are delusional B)It is nothing more then a bird
or C)it's just a flash



posted on Aug, 1 2007 @ 04:57 PM
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Chorlton,

I agree that there is an element of religion stuck in the UFO community. There is the Pantheon (Greys, Nordics, etc) and the Second Coming (Disclosure) and all of the Reinforcement Events/Miracles (UFO sightings) that are typical of religion. That is what drives some people.

As for me, like others, I don't believe or disbelieve. All I know is that my brother saw something that might have been a Foo Fighter many years ago. At the time, I dismissed it. I said to myself, 'probably a Pegasus launch' or a reflection on a haze layer', and thought no more of it.

Then, I met some people in positions of SIGNIFICANT Need to Know in certain areas of expertise as well as oversight (I will not discuss positions or verify my claim in any manner) , and they said things such as (paraphrasing extensively). :

'Civilian engineering research is a waste of time. Anything you can think of has already been done.'

and

'The problem with people in general is that they too easily dismiss the experiences of others. You would be surprised what is true out there.'

and

'We can get mass media to do what we want when we have to.'

The individuals in question were in positions of significant authority. They were not crazy. They were down to earth, very intelligent, cultured, and well-meaning. They didn't screw with the public they swore to protect.

Statements like these are what keep my mind open. I met some who worked in nuclear fields who would get tears in their eyes when I mentioned multiverse theory and an infinitely improbable universe where no one ever dies. Then they would tell ME about mass extinction events and their friend who was supposed to shoot things down out of the sky. I don't know what the heck the connection was supposed to be there.

Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to deal with unidentified flying objects and avoid the religious connotations. Well meaning scientists have religions themselves. For many it is the absolutist flavor of skepticism (the faith that all outliers have non-outlying causations) But I have met Christian fundamentalist scientists as well as UFO-cult scientists. And I am well aware that many may be applying emotional faith to cover over dry spots in the mind and soul.

But I tend to trust my gut, and it is telling me that the people I meet with more classified knowledge tend to shock me the most with these stories. They don't bring up these stories when I ask them what they do. So while they could be deflecting with a cover story, they don't have to. I am not pressing them on anything. They bring these things up when I start to talk about recent physics experiments and philosophy of science.

Is it their inherent religiosity being exposed when a civilian speaks to them about reality surrounding their official cages? I don't know. Maybe. But maybe it is more.

So I keep my senses open. And in the future, I hope for a world where we do more empirical probing of these things, and less faith based arguing (skeptic Razor versus Absolutist Assumption.) Humans are dumb. We need to get our hands around something and touch it for a while in order to make sense of it. Lanterns or not, we need to explore our world better.

[edit on 1-8-2007 by Ectoterrestrial]



posted on Aug, 1 2007 @ 05:34 PM
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Originally posted by Chorlton
and some people oh so casually refer to some 'aliens' as "Your typical grey" as if seeing one was such an everyday event.

It isn't, but I could see saying that even coming from the position of a non-believer. When you enter the world of ufology you enter a sociological realm where people know what "your typical Grey" is supposed to look like, whether they believe it or not. In the field, that kind of description has meaning. It's like saying "Your typical fighter jet." That brings to mind a swept wing single or dual seat airplane armd with missles that zooms off carriers. Yup. F-18 Hornet. Got it.

Every once in awhile you find someone who deems it their Mission to show the stupid believers what reality is, so they come over and strafe the forums for awhile, proclaim victory, and leave, knowing their superior logic has triumphed once again. For those folks, I say, "Thanks for sharing" and wave bye bye.

My particular beef is with newbies who show up with an attitude and show no particular knowledge of the subject under study here, nor any propensity to remedy their ignorance by reading up on what many people have had to say for years. This I say both to 'believers' and those who don't. Your take on the matter is not particularly interesting if you obviously don't know what you are talking about. Even people who make careers out of believing (e.g. Greer) and not-believeing (e.g. Klass) often show themselves to be woefully ignorant of the subject matter. For example, if you cannot instantly identify the names Blanchard, Marcel, Dennis, Haut, and Cavitt, how can you pretend to talk intelligently about Roswell? If you have not read Friedman on MJ-12, how can you pass judgement on the documents? If you do not know of Cash-Landrum, how can you stand there and say there have been no good UFO cases? well, you CAN, of course, but it's like a junior high school stdent passing judgement on quantum mechanics.

So while Chorlton wonders why people need to believe, I wonder why people need to put others in pre-conceived boxes that may not fit. I have studied the Christian religion, for example, and I think I know a little bit about it. But I'm not a Christian and I do not believe in the faith. I find it an interesting subject, just as I do 'your typical Grey.' I've never met one; I don't expect to.

The man who does not read good books has no advantage over one who cannot. --Mark Twain



posted on Aug, 1 2007 @ 07:17 PM
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Originally posted by Chorlton
people really feel a need to believe in Aliens or UFO's actually being on this planet.

there is no such case for Aliens


It would seem that some people really need to believe in Aliens on this planet, but for what reasons? That is what I cannot understand




please re-read your quotes for a moment, and consider your viewpoint.

Personally, I dont "need" to believe anything. I just wanted an explanation for some personal experiences (UFO sightings & abductions) I had in my childhood and teens. And since the "authorities" who are supposed to be in charge of things dont come forward with any explanation, I do the research myself and compare my experiences to others.

So, for you it may be true that there is "no case for aliens", but consider...just consider that for others there might very well be a case and a very lively one at that.



posted on Aug, 1 2007 @ 07:45 PM
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Originally posted by schuyler
My particular beef is with newbies who show up with an attitude and show no particular knowledge of the subject under study here, nor any propensity to remedy their ignorance by reading up on what many people have had to say for years. This I say both to 'believers' and those who don't. Your take on the matter is not particularly interesting if you obviously don't know what you are talking about. Even people who make careers out of believing (e.g. Greer) and not-believeing (e.g. Klass) often show themselves to be woefully ignorant of the subject matter. For example, if you cannot instantly identify the names Blanchard, Marcel, Dennis, Haut, and Cavitt, how can you pretend to talk intelligently about Roswell? If you have not read Friedman on MJ-12, how can you pass judgement on the documents? If you do not know of Cash-Landrum, how can you stand there and say there have been no good UFO cases? well, you CAN, of course, but it's like a junior high school stdent passing judgement on quantum mechanics.


WOW Thats a lot of homework for some people!!!


I understand your frustration but please dont take it on the newbies.



posted on Aug, 1 2007 @ 07:47 PM
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It's obvious this thread is set up to have a good little troll over the good people here on this forum. I hope it sinks like a stone. I wish we could 'negatively flag' a topic. Need to believe... puh-leeeaze. I see us all as a team of fact-gatherers combining our experiences and research out of a common interest / passion for the topic at hand. This "need to believe" stuff is a tad condescending. I don't need to believe anything. I have an interest in exopolitics and that's all that matters. If you have an issue with that, it's none of your business. And frankly, if you are so stone-cold skeptical that you think that most of the good people here are weak-minded fools looking for signs and wonders in the sky, then I find that highly disrespectful of this forum. A lot of convincing evidence, or stories worthy of intrigue / curiosity, pass through this forum. If you think it's all bull, then fine. State your objections on the threads of concern. But to turn around and imply that the membership are basically in la-la-land almost equating the ufo issue with religion - well that's out of line. And offensive.

If there are aliens... fine. If there aren't... then that's also fine.

Coming across interesting pics, videos, anecdotes, declassified material.. thought-provoking discussion of the said material - also fine. Why do the hardcore skeptics / debunkers have such a big problem with this? If they have a problem with this, then why are they here? This is a conspiracy site after all. If you see no conspiracy / coverup.. then what on earth drew you to this website?



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