Who Here Will Accept A Real ID Card???

Originally posted by Octavius Maximus
Will you pay attention for once?

My stance is the same as it ever was.

The government is of the people, but it is over them. It rules the people, but it needs to keep in touch with them. Lest it begins to create laws on percieved ideas of people, instead of the real thing.

Basically, my point is that a government is nothing more but the centre of the community. It needs to keep in touch with those it represents and should not be elevated above them.

You have the idea that to rule means you are elavated.

This isnt the case, and doesnt have to be the case.

The government is a body made for the people. Its power lies in the decisions it makes and the loyalty of the people.

I am saying that a government doesnt need to enforce superiority if it is good enough to gain the loyalty of the people.

Originally posted by Octavius Maximus
No, thats the dillusion people have about democracy. Even in Ancient Athens people didnt realise that the representatives ARE rulers, no matter what happens.


Your power doesnt have the power to rule?

*tears my hair out.*

Goddamn it.

Do i need to spell it out?!

Look, a person becomes a leader because the people choose him to be that leader.

They should place their loyalty in that leader and in turn that leader should owe all of his respect to the people.

This is the power a ruler should have. The power of respect. People do things for him because he explains why they need to be done and they understand it and respect his idea.

The leader, in turn, must listen to the ideas of the people. He must attempt to complete their orders, or if it is unfeasable, explain why, or create a due compromise.

A leader shouldnt need restrictions on his power, simply because he should respect his people not to wield his powers to their detriment.

Also, the system they all live in should control monetary systems much more closely. Less freedom (oops, ive now doomed my arguement in your eyes by mentioning the L F words) in money means that we wont have 5% of the world population owning 90% of its wealth and hordeing it. There will be a much smaller division between rich and poor and more wealth for the leader to use for the betterment of the people as a whole.

Please, you've gone beyond reasoned arguments and into the stage of simply annoying me.

reply to post by St James

Anyone who takes the Real ID will align himself with the beast system. Whom you put your trust in you become a slave too. I will resist with extreme prejudice!

Kennethlaster, what makes you think that the Real ID is 'the beast system'?

Revalations is terribly vague, ive gone through what it says. Ive come to the conclusion that i am the Antichrist.

Its that vague

well...waging a war against the followers of christ.

hmmm, i would seek a peaceful resolution of course. But if they continued to bay for blood then i would be forced to respond in kind.

theres a thought, If revalations was true, what if it was instigated by the christians? The hunt for the antichrist gives rise to one who opposes the christian method...

Hmm, i will ponder on this some more.

Originally posted by kennethlaster
reply to post by St James

 

Anyone who takes the Real ID will align himself with the beast system. Whom you put your trust in you become a slave too. I will resist with extreme prejudice!

If you control your own food supply and have something of value that's YOURS and not lent or being paid off then you're already aligned with the Beast.

We're already in the beast system and have already become slaves, just not in the black/white clarity of the situation that A lot of people are SURE is going to happen. What I mean by that is that the powers that be are already in place. I don't see things getting any better, the only way I see it getting worse is if these powers declare what control they do have. They've been working for years to have people slaves to bills, mortgages, bad self image, etc. Those battles have been bigger than the battle against the powers. It'ls left a lot feeling powerless or indifferent. A lot of people I know are so caught up in their little isses that they don't even care about what's coming b/c they got bills and stuff of that nature to pay. What happens when finances go out the window? Will those people realize they've wasted their lives and energy on these concepts???

[edit on 9/2/2007 by acegotflows]

Originally posted by Octavius Maximus
Please, you've gone beyond reasoned arguments and into the stage of simply annoying me.

First you have contradicted yourself multiple times throughout this thread, stating completely different viewpoints all depending on the person you are replying to, not only that but when your called out on such things you completely ignor them.

Second, multiple times throughout this thread when posters have argued there side respectfully and there side differed from yours not only do you degrade them for such opinions but you verbally assault them for those opinions and their nationality, (might wanna have a look at the terms of this site)

Third, you insult people for not presenting facts for you, Yet when they do you either ignor them them entirely or you launch personal insults as a result of them..

Forth, You have the nerve to come here and argue our laws and how your country is so great, Yet you yourself have claimed multiple times you don't even know your own countries laws regarding the various issues, On top of that you claim bias in a thread about America, being debated by Americans... Anyone with head attached to their shoulders can see how ludicrous that is...

Fifth you bring generalizations and stereotypes into this debate and use them in your attacks and replies when such things have no bearing on the thread, These things have no place on ATS.

If you ever want to be taken serious on ATS or in life, Think before you speak, If you want to debate something, you better be sure you aren't being a hypocrite when doing so. Arguing on pure emotion alone wont get you anywhere, nor will insulting others for a differing view, Like I've stated before, I've debated many people in my time here at ATS, people whom I will never agree with on certain issues, nor them me, Id debate them any day of the week to, because they bring a clean honest and respectable debate to the forum, Never resorting to personal attacks or stereotypes.

You have demonstrated not only to myself and those participating in this thread, your lack of respect towards those here at ATS, but to everyone who's read it.

Posting here isn't only directed towards those whom you are directly debating, but towards anyone reading it who may have one opinion or another, keep this in mind next time you you post.


As far as this thread is concerned I'll keep an eye on it, however as far as your concerned, You have proven you are not ready to discus things at the level most here at ATS do.

Until you are I'm done with you.



[edit on 2-9-2007 by C0le]

If you control your own food supply and have something of value that's YOURS and not lent or being paid off then you're already aligned with the Beast.

So your answer is that everyone should become farmers?

Im sure Cole or many others will take that as an angry hate you post, but it isnt. I just like to see reasoning in viewpoints.

Wouldnt something like that make everyone very introverted? Only working for themselves?

***

So cole, your not even going to mention my post?

Wow, great debater you are

multiple times throughout this thread when posters have argued there side respectfully and there side differed from yours not only do you degrade them for such opinions but you verbally assault them for those opinions and their nationality

I dont degrade them, i look at their ideas and show my belief on how it would work. Verbally assault for their opinions? hmm, maybe if i think their ideas dont make sense to me. Pointing out the flaws a certain nation has isnt against a persons nationality, if it is, then too bad.

you insult people for not presenting facts for you, Yet when they do you either ignor them them entirely or you launch personal insults as a result of them..

I have asked you multiple times to show me where these "facts" are. I havnt seen any, so i must have missed them.

If you show me where the facts are i will gladly review them and give you my opinion.

You have the nerve to come here and argue our laws and how your country is so great

Well, firstly it was an American or 2 who first said their country was "The Greatest in the world" on this thread. Secondly i am merely comparing your country to mine. The only comparison i can do.

Yet you yourself have claimed multiple times you don't even know your own countries laws regarding the various issues

You should know that it isnt the laws which is important, its the effect they have of the people. I dont know the laws, doesnt mean i dont see the effect.

On top of that you claim bias in a thread about America, being debated by Americans

I thought this was the internet?

you bring generalizations and stereotypes into this debate and use them in your attacks and replies when such things have no bearing on the thread, These things have no place on ATS.

?!?!?! How many times have you seen a person say "I HATE THE NWO" or "NASA ARE ALL LYING FREAKS" or something to that effect?! That is the worst kind of generalisation and i see it here every day.

If you ever want to be taken serious on ATS or in life, Think before you speak

Gladly, i think before i do everything, you know

Now that wasnt a veiled insult was it? Because you picking up on my flaws because you are the greatest and goodliest means that obviously you wouldnt stoop so low to insult me after that tirade about how i should be nice to people. would you?

Arguing on pure emotion alone wont get you anywhere,

And yet, youve been relying on nothing but national pride, an emotion. Freedom isnt everything. Once you realise this you will be able to open your eyes to what needs to be done.

You have demonstrated not only to myself and those participating in this thread, your lack of respect towards those here at ATS, but to everyone who's read it.

I have nothing but all the respect for any person who can accept my viewpoints and see their merit. Even if they dont agree.

I see the merits of your viewpoints, but i see the whole concept to be too short sighted and unrealistic.

I have had people who agreed with my points, and disagreed with others. Im happy with that, ive also made a great friend in the process *smile*

But to be honest, whenever i talked to my friends about this i always forget your internet name, so youve been dubbed "Capt'n freedom" because you seem to think of nothing else.

You need an open mind, stop taking any debate against you personally and then you will be able to see the big picture

Thank you, now will you please respond to my other post as well? I would prefer to have your opinion.

I have conflicting views on the Real ID issue.

On one hand, the government needs to get some control over the population. People are procreating like rats. As humans, I feel that we have a responsibility to take care of this planet. Yes we have been given the ability and the right to procreate, but we should be smart enough to be responsible and have children only if we are financially and mentally stable enough to take care of our children and raise them to be responsible and productive members of society.

A large number of people do not take any responsibility at all on this issue. They just keep having kids without thinking about who will take care of them or what will happen to them when they are old enough to walk, talk, destroy the environment and commit crimes. I can see why the government feels the need to decrease and control the population.

On the other hand, they have been very sinister in how they are decreasing the population. Just over a hundred years ago, they started adding chemicals to the food and water supply, and to all of the products that we use. The increase of these chemicals have a direct correlation to the increase in illnesses such as heart disease, cancers, depression, autism, alzheimers and more. You can get this information on these websites:
www.hundredyearlie.com...
www.newstarget.com...
www.cosmeticsdatabase.com...

Chemicals such as MSG, aspertame and sodium nitrate are in almost every food item in the supermarket and now the food industry is simply hiding it in other ingredients (a list of about 50 ingredients contain MSG) so people don't know they're consuming it. For decades, the FDA has been telling the public that they need fluoride in the water for healthy teeth, which is now being exposed as a scam. Fluoride is a very dangerous chemical that's used in rat poison and is not healthy for public consumption. Every product we use such as shampoo, soap, lotions, toothpaste, deodorant, perfumes, laundry detergents, cleaners, etc. are all loaded with chemicals that are absorbed into our bodies to cause very toxic combinations that cause unlimited health problems.

Illnesses such as depression and ADHD are actually caused by chemicals in the food and instead of informing the public to stop ingesting chemicals, they instead push antidepressants on them which only cover up the symptoms and worsen the problem by causing irreversible brain damage.

This constant onslaught of chemicals continue to cause new diseases and the FDA comes up with new pills to alleviate them. The truth is that all of these illnesses can be cured or halted simply by stopping the ingestion of chemicals but the government doesn't want us to know that.

They are basically committing genocide but draining our bank accounts before killing us off for good. And no one suspects that their diseases are being caused by our own food supply because it's so difficult to pinpoint the combination of chemicals that cause each person's illness.

There are grassroots organizations online who are trying to educate people on this and I promote these websites every chance I get. But sometimes I think about it and wonder if maybe the purpose of this whole sinister project is to eliminate those who are just not smart enough to figure it out.

If I was able to discover this plot and stop consuming the chemicals, maybe I'm one who is destined to be part of this newer and more intelligient society that they are trying to build. For those who never figure it out and die an early death from the chemicals, maybe they were just meant to be eliminated. Survival of the fittest.

So who are we to say they have no right to implant chips in us? Maybe they are trying to save the planet from "us"... the idiots out here mindlessly procreating and not contributing to society. FYI... I made the conscious choice many years ago not to have children, so I'm not one of the mindless procreators.

Just some ideas to ponder.

COle
Forth, You have the nerve to come here and argue our laws and how your country is so great, Yet you yourself have claimed multiple times you don't even know your own countries laws regarding the various issues, On top of that you claim bias in a thread about America, being debated by Americans... Anyone with head attached to their shoulders can see how ludicrous that is...

No worries COle, I took some of his arguments as insults as well. But, OM has retracted his statements and/or watered down his 'vibrant' viewpoints once he had been called on it here and in other threads. My opinion differs highly from his, in regard to such matter, but I have also found some of his opposing points understandable. Which, of course, in turn allows me the ability to ponder these thoughts as counter attacks against my present opposition, if/once these objects of control are forced on us.

Plus, being American, and understanding how other Americans feel and live their lives, is a huge advantage to having complete knowledge, and holding 'serious' educated opinions/ideas on this topic of debate. But, dont forget that it's just as (if not more so, in ways) important to gain understanding and knowledge from those outside of the US, especially in reference to our country!

To have someone who has never lived in America, be so passionate about America is a beautiful thing!

I think it's just 'our' (American) pride that has gotten bruised lately by our government. In so far as, we feel as though citizens of other countries have already 'stereotyped' us as 'Bush lovers' and we feel we need to either defend ourselves from foreign generalizations or we ride out 'nationalism', because we are opposed to our 'stereotypes', and attach our resentment toward our 'government' onto those of other origins. This is by no means, me claiming that this is your issue COle, but rather a consensus I have made regarding American attitudes. And believe you me, I will defend and continue to try and empower my great nation tooth and nail. I'm just trying to defend the sociological aspect of our diferences in opinions

Originally posted by acegotflows

If you control your own food supply and have something of value that's YOURS and not lent or being paid off then you're already aligned with the Beast.


What I meant to say is "...or being paid off then you're PROBABLY NOTalready aligned with the Beast. "



what I mean by that is if you're not dependant on the system,then you'll soon be an enemy if not already. The majority of their control, at least in my eyes, is financially. The whole cash dynamic seems to be crashing down. It's what it was created to do, so I'm not surprised, but I'm concerned by the hold that finances and such have on people. Maybe if we were all farmers it would be fine. Granted we'd have to be in another environment all together as this planet in it's conditions right now won't be able to sustain that. Probably not without wholesale population dropoff . When it comes down to it, that's going to be one of the tenets right? To knock off the "undesirables".

Everyone is saying yay convenience, but I don't see what's to be gained... that you have a few less cards in your wallet? Big deal.

You are truly a sad lazy bunch.

Originally posted by unuk5
Everyone is saying yay convenience, but I don't see what's to be gained... that you have a few less cards in your wallet? Big deal.

You are truly a sad lazy bunch.

I think its also because of national security issues.

What rights would be given up if this system were in place? I could still do all the things I do now, just easier.

what I mean by that is if you're not dependant on the system,then you'll soon be an enemy if not already.

Hmm, depends.

Look at it from the governments point of view.

it was appointed to govern the people. To keep them safe and keep them happy, and to represent them on the world scale.

While trying to govern, you have people who do everything they can to disassociate themselves from the system. They only work for themselves.

This helps the government how?

How is it supposed to help and represent a people who dont want to be helped and represented?

They dont see you as 'enemies' (well...they shouldnt) but your not the target audience as it were, you do nothing for the government so they dont want to do anything for you.

The whole cash dynamic seems to be crashing down. It's what it was created to do, so I'm not surprised

What do you mean by this?

Maybe if we were all farmers it would be fine

Not exactly, no real progress would happen. People would just continue, no medical centres to stop viruses and plagues, and other things like that.

When it comes down to it, that's going to be one of the tenets right? To knock off the "undesirables".

I would say the government would want to make the 'undesirables' useful.

The things the people say the NWO are going to do make no sense politically or even realistically.

You spend years gaining complete control of the people...then you kill off most of them?

That makes no sense. Destroying a workforce.

Undesirables would need to be dealt with, but not in the way of murder. You either make them useful, by convincing them or something.

Or you ignore them. They dont help you, so you dont help them.

A world of farmers sounds like an incredibly boring world.

I think its also because of national security issues.

What rights would be given up if this system were in place? I could still do all the things I do now, just easier.

Exactly

EDIT:

I just got back from chatting to my sister, She says that the Australian constitution has no mention of freedom of speech, it is not protected, neither is it held.

All Aussies i talk to say this is because there it isnt an issue for us, we know the government wont reduce our freedom of speech unless it seriously is needed, and the government realises that reducing freedom of speech would lead to a separation of the people and the government, meaning the downhill to revolution would start.

So for all those people who say Freedom is everything, just remember that basic human rights dont need to be given, here is my evidence.



[edit on 3-9-2007 by Octavius Maximus]

to people who chip their dogs. I hope it works for you
even though a chip doesn't last 15 seconds in a wok.


reply to post by AceWombat04

to people who chip their dogs. I hope it works for you
even though a chip doesn't last 15 seconds in a wok.

And once your dog has been put in a wok, you think the people who did it will go to a vet and ask to find you?

Seriously, the Chip isnt a GPS, its for identification of the owner if the animal goes missing.



[edit on 6/9/07 by JAK]

Geez, how long are you gonna stand on that soapbox and lecture us about how things "should" be OM? I hope you brought a parachute, its a long fall. You seem to have an answer for everything...you've just learned all there is to know huh? Well I for one will refuse the card, simply because I can already be identified in numerous other ways, and I will not walk around transmitting a signal through my ID, no matter how small the broadcast range. I know I can already be tracked through my cellphone, but there is a feature there to turn the tracking device off, or I could just unplug the battery. Besides, a cell phone is optional. You do realize that RFID chips can, and already have been hacked, check youtube. Or even better, when they try to chip us, do you think they aren't people so poor, so desperate that they would literally cut off your arm/hand to get your chip? I can't believe I even bothered typing a response to someone who agreed with "I'm not entirely sure how you guys are getting invasion of privacy from this to be honest." Really? You dont see how tracking every purchase, atm withdrawal, gas fillup, etc without the people's permission is an invasion of privacy? The fact of the matter is, I have the right here in america to go about freely, unmonitored. Period. There is nothing you can say or do that will make me feel any different. Just because I haven't done anything wrong doesn't mean I have nothing to hide. Maybe I don't want big brother knowing every thing i do. You also said this gem of wisdom: "You have the national ID. What is this at face value? it is all of your important information in one card. So you dont have hundreds of cards and papers to lose or be stolen."

That has to be the most ignorant statement yet in this thread....So instead of 1 or 2 of cards being stolen, they could just steal 1 card that have access to every single card you own?!? Please tell me you're kidding...


...guess i'm just another bot specifically designed to piss you off (see: opposite point of view)

Perhaps instead of lambasting OM for his opinions and how they are wrong, while simultaneously regurgitating the meta-facts you have all read somewhere... you should instead be trying to present examples of how the NID can be abused, how easy it is to ruin a person.

Imagine if you would that All of your financial data, medical data, and personal data on the card. This is the primary purpose for it, and I will focus on this primary purpose at first before expounding upon the secondary and tertiary uses for it.

Now, since a card is most likely in the near term, it is prudent to address it first and foremost.

Imagine if you would that you left your card at home. Perhaps you are out on a walk enjoying the starry sky. Medical problem; what if you are hit by a car? Stabbed? Shot? Attacked by a wild animal (In some states)? First problem; you have left your card at home, and have no way of verifying your identity for medical professionals.

What if your house and car are keyed to your ID and you have forgotten it while you stepped out to get the newspaper? Suddenly, you are locked out. A minor inconvenience, yes.

What if your card is STOLEN? How do you prove you are you? Other than people who are familiar with you, in large cities, do you expect your bank to know who you are? Slightly more concerning problem, identity theft with a card that contains all your personal data and such.

Now naturally, there might be other systems utilized to rebuff troubles such as these; DNA based scanners, fingerprint scanners, etc. There certainly would be ways around it.

Ah, then we come to the true problem with a centralized Database of all your personal information, controlled by the government. What if the wrong person decides that they don't like you? All of that data can be edited. One of the more recent movies that detailed how reliance upon central information is a risk factor was "Live Free or Die Hard," The most recent in the Bruce Willis action flicks.

In one particular scene that is slightly off the cuff humorous, but with thought provoking implications, A characters entire savings, retirement plan, and investments are erased with the click of a computer key.

Likewise, with the click of a computer key, the wrong person can decide you're a pedophile and registered as one. That you're an escaped convict, a mental patient. That you're a murderer who specializes in killing retail clerks. That you're a drug addict, and unavailable to work in most businesses.

All at the power of ones fingertips. It would not even have to be a government agent who has come to dislike you. It could be a disgruntled hacker who takes joy in ruining other people's lives merely because he has the power and everything is right there, at his fingertips.

Oh, the power of a killer who can code. Imagine someone who works retail for a living and scans such ID cards, and later uses them to alter medical data so that when you get in medical distress, the doctor injects a huge dose of allergen into your bloodstream.

It isn't always about how the goverment can abuse things. Sometimes it's about how good old fashioned criminals can use good intent to cause more havoc.

Thank you Colddragon! Couldn't have said it better myself!!!

Geez, how long are you gonna stand on that soapbox and lecture us about how things "should" be OM?

As long as it takes

You seem to have an answer for everything...you've just learned all there is to know huh?

Finally, someone gets the idea

You do realize that RFID chips can, and already have been hacked, check youtube.

Ah yes, youtube...the most irrefutable evidence known to mankind.

Or even better, when they try to chip us, do you think they aren't people so poor, so desperate that they would literally cut off your arm/hand to get your chip?

Not when it doesnt work for them, hense why i said that it should be keyed to a fingerprint aswell, and able to be deactivated from a distance like a sim card.

I can't believe I even bothered typing a response to someone who agreed with "I'm not entirely sure how you guys are getting invasion of privacy from this to be honest." Really? You dont see how tracking every purchase, atm withdrawal, gas fillup, etc without the people's permission is an invasion of privacy?

No i dont. Simply because those shouldnt be private matters, they are just things.

Anyway, all of those things are logged in different places, meaning to find info on you is difficult, this makes it easier.

"Blah blah, but if the government knows things about me they will try to hurt me!!1!"

Yes...or help you, with that information they can do things such as work out proper surveys based on good information, meaning things can be tailored to you, the consumer, in a much easier and better way.

The fact of the matter is, I have the right here in america to go about freely, unmonitored. Period. There is nothing you can say or do that will make me feel any different.

Then i guess, you have to live with the downfalls of society and stop complaining, because you chose it.

That has to be the most ignorant statement yet in this thread....So instead of 1 or 2 of cards being stolen, they could just steal 1 card that have access to every single card you own?!? Please tell me you're kidding...

Of course not. See, thats why i prefer the chip to the card, it cannot be stolen and used like a card can.

...guess i'm just another bot specifically designed to piss you off (see: opposite point of view)

Ive seen the opposite point of view all my life, i dont agree with it.

Ah, then we come to the true problem with a centralized Database of all your personal information, controlled by the government. What if the wrong person decides that they don't like you? All of that data can be edited. One of the more recent movies that detailed how reliance upon central information is a risk factor was "Live Free or Die Hard," The most recent in the Bruce Willis action flicks.

Well the very easy way would be to make it an uneditable system.

All at the power of ones fingertips. It would not even have to be a government agent who has come to dislike you. It could be a disgruntled hacker who takes joy in ruining other people's lives merely because he has the power and everything is right there, at his fingertips.

Ive got a few friends in the computer industry who have been working on ways to make systems unhackable, its been very promising so far. It bases its ability on creating a false system on the way to the main one, to a hacker it looks like the main system, any changes to this create an alert and the signal is traced. And because of the centralised information, its easier to trace who did it.

It isn't always about how the goverment can abuse things. Sometimes it's about how good old fashioned criminals can use good intent to cause more havoc.

My thoughts exactly, this is how i came to the conclusion that a chip is better than a card, because it means that your points are all resolved, are they not?

you cannot lose the chip. Neither can it be stolen (ive put ways to protect it and you before in the thread)

Thanks for being rational and intelligent, though.

Thank you Colddragon! Couldn't have said it better myself!!!

Thought you'd pop up

Hooray, were all friends here

Now that I've had my nap, I can address things with a tad bit more clarity.

It is true that a Chip implanted would very well solve the problem of theft or loss, however NEW problems arise by implanting the chip into people's bodies.

The first and foremost, which has been discussed here (Though none too coherently that I've noticed) is the question, "Do you trust the Government to do what's best for you?"

Before I address that, though, Let me address your claims that you know people trying to make an "UN-HACKABLE" system. So long as it is designed by human beings, there will always be flaws, workarounds, and unseen errors in how a thing is designed. All of which another human being might, and most likely will, figure out.

You see, knowing some bit about programming, there is practically no system which is completely closed. This occurs primarily for one reason; So that the designers or the contractors can make future additions to the software. In order for any system to be upgraded, there must be a way to get in to program it... and thus there is always a FRONT door installed.

With a system such as a universally centralized database, as well as the argument of "More Convenience," Which is popularly espoused by some in this thread, it would necessitate a need for that front door. No government will eschew an opportunity to increase their power over the citizentry, even if it is an unexercised opportunity.

Now then, to address the matter of trust in the government. You may state that a people's responsibility is to trust and respect the powers that be as they represent yourself and others of your country, but this in itself is a psychological fallacy as presented in one of the oldest examinations of society and governance; Plato's, "Republic".

While you may trust the government now in place, and feel that it is their job to make your life easier and more pleasant overall... you must remember that there is no real incentive for serving the public. Serving the public is a thankless position for the most part, ask a Fireman. A policeman. Someone who works in retail.

In government, the expectation is that they choose to serve because they wish to help society. Here in the west, that was true at one point. It is not true whatsoever today. Allow me to explain.

The problem is a two-pronged one, on one side (The liberal side), you have special interests group. These are people who have gathered together to produce organizations with monetary push and pull. They primarily have a SOCIAL agenda, which can be seen in televised propoganda. They seek to change how society thinks and views things towards their own reality of how things are. Some are extremely successful in it.

Then you have the other end of the spectrum, the Corporate Hegemony. There are many of these, and all of them have one thing they are interested in; success for their business. We can cite Microsoft, Big Oil, Walmart and numerous others as being Corporate interests.

So, with these two dualities, you have a rock and a hard place for any ethical politician. Neither group wants what is best for society, only what is best for themselves. Neither can be persuaded to forgo their own interests for the bettterment of their fellow man.

And both have extreme influence on any politicians future plans to be re-elected, or to be elected in the first place.

So then we must return to the question... SHOULD you trust government to do what is best for you? Not at all. In the grand scheme of things, you are nobody and do not matter to those that make the decisions. Ethical politicians are few and far between, and the majority of governance is composed of those who desire two things; Power and Influence over Others.

We are merely hands to do the work so that the Nobility reap the benefits.