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posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 08:33 PM
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copernicus and redge, you're on point.

they have eyes but..

octavius, you have a commendably optimistic view of the powers that be. i wasn't speaking to you as a child, i was just trying to be clear and precise. sorry if i offended you. perceive as you will.

you say "religion" and "civil liberties" are unrelated.

i would say that "being alive on earth" is one indivisible experience of quantum physics and super-miraculous existence, and being an amazingly complex microcosm of this magnificient macrocosm is undivided in its knowledge that all things are ultimately one. in this experience of life, religion is not "Religion" and civil liberties are not "Civil Liberties" - not according to man-written decrees and policies. i don't care for Vatican II or the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, nor anything equivalent. Both are merged into and superceded by my sheer existence. you feelin me?

i would suggest that the "general human population" and "the powers that be" are largely 'unrelated', despite powers-that-be-sponsored media constantly equivalating the two with catch words like "democracy" and "freedom" and "peace" and "safety". its a false relationship covering up the true relationship between the two.

QUOTING YOU: "then it isn't a system, it is a prison"

exactly. this is the devolution of the system, occurring as we speak. i agree, the global system is doing 'relatively' well at the moment and without careful thought it would be easy to say think that all is well and good and we can stop worrying. but the process is insidious, and it is visible. its not just america. its the global system manipulated by the world banks through foreign debt. why do you think the global powers are furious with Hugo Chavez? because in 5 years he cleared his country of its foreign debt, thus severed venezualas subservience to the global state. in contrast, australia's foreign debt has nearly tripled (!) under its most neoliberal government to date. why would a country seek to increase its foreign debt and not reduce it?

regarding your view of religion/christianity: finding the root of a tree tells you very little about its foliage or its fruit. you might have researched some origins of CHristianity and what you might have found is some pale vegetative matter noodled through some dirt and humus. what else did you expect? and yet some people find tubers to be delicious and nutritious vegetables. yet it seems you didn't find useful tubers looking at the roots, which by flawed deduction, rendered the rest of the plant useless. i would urge you to consider things perhaps a little differently.

i dont think your analogy of the chip and a page of the bible is valid. and i think others would agree with me.

the crux of my argument is not that society needs to worship its government. my argument is that one day global society WILL worship its global government. and this is an offence to our existence as soverign and eternal beings. in short the crux of my argument is the Crux.

if you think that a global system that boils down to individuals needing a chip to be integrated into it as one global systemic entity will only be used for our benefit, then all power to you. just don't be surprised when shyte hits the fan and hell breaks loose across the earth. and don't be surprised when the inconceivable power of the universe comes and taps on your shoulder saying, why did you surrender your sovreign existence to this man-made man-controlled imitator?

consider wisely. peace




posted on Sep, 16 2007 @ 02:15 AM
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i would say that "being alive on earth" is one indivisible experience of quantum physics and super-miraculous existence, and being an amazingly complex microcosm of this magnificient macrocosm is undivided in its knowledge that all things are ultimately one. in this experience of life, religion is not "Religion" and civil liberties are not "Civil Liberties" - not according to man-written decrees and policies. i don't care for Vatican II or the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, nor anything equivalent. Both are merged into and superceded by my sheer existence. you feelin me?


yes, but beliefs on what rights you get by existing are varied, this is why society is created, it creates a standard template for people, allowing differences to be seen and order to be maintained.

"Freedom Without Limits Is Just A Word" -Dorfl



i would suggest that the "general human population" and "the powers that be" are largely 'unrelated', despite powers-that-be-sponsored media constantly equivalating the two with catch words like "democracy" and "freedom" and "peace" and "safety". its a false relationship covering up the true relationship between the two.


Not as such, words are created for concepts which are entirely created. You can sift the entire universe into its components and you will never find a single Atom of 'justice'. These words are relative, and are created to give the person an idea of something, to put a new point of view on a subject. "Bringing a Criminal to Justice" Is actually the same as "Locking a human in a cell" in reality, but the human mind separates things by creating ideas of 'Criminal' and 'justice'

This can be used both ways. When the people of America say to the government "You are taking away our freedoms" you need to specify what you mean. The Freedoms given by the constitution are different to the belief of what freedoms are given from birth.



exactly. this is the devolution of the system, occurring as we speak. i agree, the global system is doing 'relatively' well at the moment and without careful thought it would be easy to say think that all is well and good and we can stop worrying. but the process is insidious, and it is visible. its not just america. its the global system manipulated by the world banks through foreign debt. why do you think the global powers are furious with Hugo Chavez? because in 5 years he cleared his country of its foreign debt, thus severed venezualas subservience to the global state. in contrast, australia's foreign debt has nearly tripled (!) under its most neoliberal government to date. why would a country seek to increase its foreign debt and not reduce it?


This Devolution of the system was a natural occurence and is evident in every system. The problem lies that when humans create a social system they make its borders so rigid that it is unable to change, unable to cope with human freedom and expression, meaning it stagnates.

Societies made to have strict laws, ones which cannot be changed by ANYONE (such as the American and other constitutions) are doomed to fail. It is in their nature. Are the people of America allowed to change the constitution?

I dont know about the trippling of Australias debt, but you should also notice that Australias economy is stronger than ever. The Oz Dollar is beginning to Rival other world powers.

A country only seeking to reduce its debt is a country that thinks on economics and numbers, not in people. Perhaps the money was spent on certain things to pay off over time?

Building Stadium Australia and bidding on the Olympics?



regarding your view of religion/christianity: finding the root of a tree tells you very little about its foliage or its fruit. you might have researched some origins of CHristianity and what you might have found is some pale vegetative matter noodled through some dirt and humus.


Doing things such as comparing the Genesis flood myth, the Epic of Gilgamesh and the Epic of Atrahasis.


what else did you expect? and yet some people find tubers to be delicious and nutritious vegetables. yet it seems you didn't find useful tubers looking at the roots, which by flawed deduction, rendered the rest of the plant useless. i would urge you to consider things perhaps a little differently.


I read the bible, i see no worth in it for me, i find the bibles roots and find them to be taken from other religious texts, i am not surprised. I dont hate christianity, i dont like it, it says nothing about who a person is, so i wont go on about it.

I will consider it differently when Christianity can prove to me that it can move with the times.



i dont think your analogy of the chip and a page of the bible is valid. and i think others would agree with me.


Which analogy was this?




the crux of my argument is not that society needs to worship its government. my argument is that one day global society WILL worship its global government. and this is an offence to our existence as soverign and eternal beings. in short the crux of my argument is the Crux.


If people worshipped me, or my government i would tell them to stop. Trying to be a god means you have to appear to be strong, and never wrong. Its too difficult.

But arnt people allowed to believe what they want?



if you think that a global system that boils down to individuals needing a chip to be integrated into it as one global systemic entity will only be used for our benefit, then all power to you. just don't be surprised when shyte hits the fan and hell breaks loose across the earth. and don't be surprised when the inconceivable power of the universe comes and taps on your shoulder saying, why did you surrender your sovreign existence to this man-made man-controlled imitator?


Because i am the man made controller


My musings on the chip lie on my ponderings as myself as the Democratic king.

having a chip does not surrender your sovreign existance in any way, it increases a humans ability, while taking nothing in return.



posted on Sep, 16 2007 @ 02:46 AM
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Originally posted by sollie
copernicus and redge, you're on point.


Thank you. Not that I think this development is avoidable. A small number of people may realize the rfid chip will remove their freedom of speach completely, but the others wont. And we are competing with a mass media that will sell this chip to people using convenience.

People are so busy with their real lifes that I doubt they will have the energy to research what this really means. So they will just accept it.

With this chip, the government can turn off your ability to communite with others on the Internet completely if you are criticizing them. Dont think this chip wont be used everywhere, because it will. Its the ultimate identifier. But hey, only terrorists criticize the government right?

Sigh. This world sucks.



[edit on 16-9-2007 by Copernicus]



posted on Sep, 16 2007 @ 04:49 AM
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yeah i try not to sigh so much anymore copernie, we who sigh have got the promise to break through to the other side of this dark cloud. jesus speaks to the people who sight all these things. "rejoice, i have overcome the world".

there's a point at which you have to cut your losses and focus on yourself and the ones close to you. remember jesus didn't pray for the world. he prayed for the people who were reading from the same page as him. that's all that matters in the end. "i am what i am" and there's no changing that. so we sit tight and stand our ground when it matters. "not my might, nor by power, but by my Spirit". we have the victory - it's already game over. the world's just in denial - satan "knows his time is short". peace



posted on Sep, 16 2007 @ 04:59 AM
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A small number of people may realize the rfid chip will remove their freedom of speach completely, but the others wont.


A few people may believe this, doesnt make it true. What makes your theory any more likely than mine?



People are so busy with their real lifes that I doubt they will have the energy to research what this really means. So they will just accept it.


Well compare this to, say, the response to Global Warming. A large percentage of the world has already attempted to change its habits. Purely because the people have been alerted to it.

I dont give up on humanity, i only give up when humanity give up on each other. Something i see you doing.

[quote
With this chip, the government can turn off your ability to communite with others on the Internet completely if you are criticizing them. Dont think this chip wont be used everywhere, because it will. Its the ultimate identifier. But hey, only terrorists criticize the government right?


Yes, they can.

Because the government gives guns to policemen they can shoot anyone, right?

Because the government controls the power stations they can turn off your electricity whenever, right?

Not all power is used, this doesnt have to be different.



there's a point at which you have to cut your losses and focus on yourself and the ones close to you. remember jesus didn't pray for the world. he prayed for the people who were reading from the same page as him. that's all that matters in the end. "i am what i am" and there's no changing that. so we sit tight and stand our ground when it matters. "not my might, nor by power, but by my Spirit". we have the victory - it's already game over. the world's just in denial - satan "knows his time is short". peace


If this is true i no longer have any respect for Jesus. What a selfish way to look at it.

If the world is changed you need the whole world to see it and be enlightened and realise what each person is capable. You cannot pick favorites.

so, if i work to take over the world for the good of mankind, am i doing 'Satans work'?

Hmmm, i always thought i was the antichrist. Thanks
Once i wake humanity up to their own potential and each and every person is helping the others.

*sigh* that world will be beautiful. It is only a matter of time, too



posted on Sep, 16 2007 @ 07:39 AM
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he spoke to the masses in parables, but explained the parables to the ones who would listen. that's why the masses put him on a cross bro.

majority consensus does not equate to truth.

and that's the funny thing about the way of the world, people will band together with all this 'peace' and 'happiness' and 'safety' fairyfloss all day long, but as soon as someone comes along and waters down their sandy foundations - in the interest of loving education mind you - they get all haterish and hypocritical. they wouldnt surrender for what they believe in like jesus did. see jesus knew his cause was more powerful and more final than death itself, so he didn't resist when the world sought to snuff him out. "that's power" yo. whenever he did a miracle, he told the healed people to keep it quiet and praise God. in not proving himself, he was proven. in not glorifying himself, he was glorified. taoism? definitely. this is in stark contrast to the way of the world. man's world seeks to prove himself, man's world seeks to glorify himself. in doing so he will destroy himself because he aint humble enough to admit he dont know enough. but yall wouldnt get this because its already been prophesied - this truth ain't measured in mass appeal. peace



posted on Sep, 16 2007 @ 07:49 AM
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Originally posted by St James
Well, for starters there will be an RFID chip in the REAL ID card. It will carry all your personal information and you will need it to enter any goverment building, open a bank account, board an airplane etc. This will allow the government to track your movements...



I already have that, it's called a US PASSPORT! comes with an RFID chip and they get all your information even before you cross the border or approach an airport terminal. therefore, I have already agreed to be tracked by applying for the US PASSPORT. I don't see why this is any different than a drivers license.


However, when I check into the motel 6 they always ask me for ID, license plate number and they keep all my information and i'm just staying in a room for 1 night. they said that they share this information with the police department in chula vista. I have a problem with that, they police doesn't need to know where I stay. I've come to the conclusion that anytime I go to a motel 6 I should surrender all my rights.



posted on Sep, 16 2007 @ 07:53 AM
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he spoke to the masses in parables, but explained the parables to the ones who would listen. that's why the masses put him on a cross bro.


Because he was pissing people off?

hell, i'd get annoyed at a person who always spoke in a parable, no matter if he did explain them. its just irritating.



majority consensus does not equate to truth.


Truth is relative to the amount who believe it.



and that's the funny thing about the way of the world, people will band together with all this 'peace' and 'happiness' and 'safety' fairyfloss all day long, but as soon as someone comes along and waters down their sandy foundations - in the interest of loving education mind you - they get all haterish and hypocritical.


Like Christians who dont like the bibles inconsistancies and the Hypocracy pointed out?


they wouldnt surrender for what they believe in like jesus did.


because they were fine in their religion and people always get irratated when someone tries to convert them. I know i do.


see jesus knew his cause was more powerful and more final than death itself, so he didn't resist when the world sought to snuff him out. "that's power" yo.


No, thats belief. Not Power.

Nero was just too stupid to realise what a martyr is. Christians are quite bloody and love martyrs.


man's world seeks to prove himself, man's world seeks to glorify himself. in doing so he will destroy himself because he aint humble enough to admit he dont know enough.


People like this arnt leaders.

A person who glorifies himself for his achievements, but can still admit that there is more to be done and learnt is a true leader.


but yall wouldnt get this because its already been prophesied - this truth ain't measured in mass appeal. peace


Sorry, what truth is this?

I see belief and faith and stories. But no truth. a man named Iesus was killed on a cross, so were many other people.



posted on Sep, 16 2007 @ 08:25 AM
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Originally posted by St James
Well, for starters there will be an RFID chip in the REAL ID card. It will carry all your personal information and you will need it to enter any goverment building, open a bank account, board an airplane etc. This will allow the government to track your movements...


Hmmm...I live in a foreign country and had to update my passport recently - it has a chip in the new passport, no big deal...no different then before, just got to make sure it doesnt get in as bad of shape as the previous one did from having to carry it around all the time... or the scanner wont read it I suppose.

Technology is not a bad thing people - it merely depends on how it is used.

Peace

dAlen



posted on Sep, 16 2007 @ 08:30 AM
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Originally posted by Octavius Maximus
*sigh* that world will be beautiful. It is only a matter of time, too


actually...time is the one hinderance to the world being beautiful.
As we continue to seek life in the future we forget to live it now.

Peace

dAlen



posted on Sep, 16 2007 @ 05:31 PM
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Originally posted by dAlen

Originally posted by Octavius Maximus
*sigh* that world will be beautiful. It is only a matter of time, too


actually...time is the one hinderance to the world being beautiful.
As we continue to seek life in the future we forget to live it now.

Peace

dAlen


right on. where's this stairway to heaven? its like, 'just a few more steps everyone'...they dont realise the kingdom is within

so it could be a stairwell to hell.

octie man, your opinion of a christian/ity is surprisingly limited and somewhat offensive. from what i've heard of people on this board alone, none of them are like what you've suggested. and if you actually knew what was in the bible you might realise that not all who say "Lord Lord" will enter the kingdom because 50% of christians are just as ignorant as most non-christians on what the bible teaches. so be careful when you make rash generalizations. the truth hurts, especially for people who honestly seek it. the burden of wisdom. yet people would rather listen to whatever feels good and call that truth. "in the last days, people will gather around them many teachers to hear whatever their itching ears want to hear".

keep doin your thing, keep your eyes about you. obviously you're seeking answers to things or you wouldn't be on this board. or maybe i'm wrong and you have all the answers? i'm not sure. peace



posted on Sep, 16 2007 @ 07:55 PM
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right on. where's this stairway to heaven? its like, 'just a few more steps everyone'...they dont realise the kingdom is within




Youve twisted what i said, what i was saying had nothing to do with 'heaven'. Its about making a world where everything works right, where people gain from their own ingenuity, and the ingenuity of their brothers and sisters.




octie man, your opinion of a christian/ity is surprisingly limited and somewhat offensive.


Sollie, im using your interpretation of Iesus to make my claims. Your saying he only spoke his meaning to a chosen few, and that all others would have no chance.

Well then, if thats true he lost my respect.


from what i've heard of people on this board alone, none of them are like what you've suggested.


I dont remember suggesting anything of that nature.


if you actually knew what was in the bible you might realise that not all who say "Lord Lord" will enter the kingdom because 50% of christians are just as ignorant as most non-christians on what the bible teaches.


But thats the thing, the bible isnt the important part, its the message it imparts, isnt it?

Ive discussed religions and Christianity with people from the religious groups around. I dont need to read the bible because that isnt what im focussed on.

If i wanted to get a message, i would read the bible. If i wanted to know what the christians in the world believe, i will ask them, because as you say, many are ignorant of the bibles teachings. Which i prefer to read as 'many disagree with your interpretation of the bible'


yet people would rather listen to whatever feels good and call that truth. "in the last days, people will gather around them many teachers to hear whatever their itching ears want to hear".


Heres something ive been meaning to ask.

If the lie is preferable in every way to the truth, would you still seek it?

Dont knee jerk answer, actually think. Please.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 02:54 AM
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you're not interested in the bible and you don't respect jesus. i have heard loud and clear. i would ask that you consider this position wisely. i'll leave it with you.

if a lie is preferable... well it depends what your values are, no? your priorities. what you deem 'preferable'.

but if a lie is preferable, is it not still a lie?

let me put it this way: if the truth is the harder and longer route, would you opt for the lie because its the easier and shorter one? in which case truth would be relative to its utility.

are you suggesting 'truth' is defined as utility?

i'm not sure where you're going.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 07:08 AM
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you're not interested in the bible and you don't respect jesus. i have heard loud and clear. i would ask that you consider this position wisely. i'll leave it with you.


I ask you to read what im saying, not pick out the words you dont like from my posts.

As i said, i had full respect for Iesus until someone mentioned (i think it was you) that he only worked for a small amount of people.



if a lie is preferable... well it depends what your values are, no? your priorities. what you deem 'preferable'.

but if a lie is preferable, is it not still a lie?


Let me give you an example.

If you know anything about Australian history, you will know about the stolen generation. Where Aboriginal children were taken by the government at the time to camps where they would be integrated into White Australian society.

Now, the aboriginals are calling out for an apology on behalf of todays government for that mistake. Some believe that the government, by not saying sorry, is to blame.

Now, this is a lie, no government members of today were alive at that time. BUT, if the government DID say sorry, that would count as admitting guilt. If the government admits guilt, the Aboriginals could sue this country into bankruptcy.

The lie is preferable to the truth. Everyone knows the truth, but noone can actually say it.



let me put it this way: if the truth is the harder and longer route, would you opt for the lie because its the easier and shorter one? in which case truth would be relative to its utility.

are you suggesting 'truth' is defined as utility?

i'm not sure where you're going.


So lets say that the truth is that Christianity is built upon lies, it is a form of control, etc etc, root of all evil, etc.

Would you still believe it? Or would you believe the claim to be lies?

Why is the truth the long and complicated route? A lie is oh so much harder to maintain than a truth.



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 09:15 AM
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first, my dicussion on this ends after this post because its not going anywhere and i don't have time to keep going with a dead end.

i only paraphrased directly from the bible when i mentioned that yahshuah spoke to the masses in parables and the few in clearer language. the fact is, "if anyone has ears, let them hear". plenty in the masses heard and believed. plenty didn't. that's free will, not exclusivity.

i misunderstood you when you said you no longer have respect for jesus, sorry.

i've worked a lot with indigenous aussies at rehab places. i'm well aware. i'm having trouble understanding your analogy for two reasons:

1) no one is lying by not saying sorry. everyone knows about what the colonialists did to aboriginals. no one is denying it. on the contrary, i've had personal conversations, read scholarly articles, and seen plenty of public speeches about the atrocities and how we can remedy the damage. additionally, many oganisations and agencies have been set up specifically to remediate the sociocultural damage done. so i don't see how the government not saying sorry is perpetuating a lie. there's no lie. the truth is there. its just a case of how we operate on that truth. which relates to my next point.

2) who told you the bible is based on lies? that's very poor scholarship. the same could be said of science. theoretically its built on many many assumptions. yet with the bible, as with scientific experimentation, it is testified to by the Spirit, who is real if only you had the humility and patience to call on Him. which i urge you to do in one of your quieter moments.

also, if the Bible was written as a means of control then it was extremely poorly written. and that phrase you used "root of all evil" actually comes from the bible, but it refers to money. considering this, do you really believe you have that much authority on the bible to accuse it of lies? or are you well versed in the bible enough to even have an opinion of it? consider that wisely i implore.

you know its written in the Bible that men will turn the truth into lies for their own advantage?

case in point - Jesus called the religious elite hypocrites for using moral law as a means of social and economic control. so how can christianity be used as a means of control if we're all following Jesus, who undermined the control of religious dogma?

if you are just such an authority on the Bible, did you realise that when Jesus saw the priests and religious elders short-changing money and over-taxing the citizens for their goods that he went and tipped over their tables and exposed their theivery? what sort of model for social manipulation is Jesus? not a very good one, let it be assured.

Did you know that Jesus Christ undermined the mechanisms of control that had been established in the Jewish ruling class precisely because they twisted the truth of the Holy Scriptures into lies to suit their own ends? that's why they had him crucified. He brought the truth to light.

what was that? truth? light? yeah thats right.

so don't play that card about christianity being all about control. that is straight up fallacy and in complete ignorance of what the Bible teaches.

i will tell you personally, i had never read the bible until one event in my life a few years ago. the Son of God came thundering into my living room one night, and slapped me in the face for my wrongdoings, for want of a better expression. I tell you in all truth that the Lord is alive. i'm just saying it so that it is said. it's not for you to believe nor disbelieve. only for you to hear/read.

octavius, please, consider your position on the bible wisely. that means doing some hard research. and don't limit yourself to google. the Bible is a very big book and the things contained in it are extensive and beyond most people's capability to fathom entirely. i would ask you to consider what authority you have before you make any claims about the Book. take it easy



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 09:44 AM
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i only paraphrased directly from the bible when i mentioned that yahshuah spoke to the masses in parables and the few in clearer language. the fact is, "if anyone has ears, let them hear". plenty in the masses heard and believed. plenty didn't. that's free will, not exclusivity.


Its excluding, simple.

He made no attempt to change their opinion, and left them as lost causes.

Kind of unfair, really.



i misunderstood you when you said you no longer have respect for jesus, sorry


No worries




1) no one is lying by not saying sorry.


Hmm, thats the thing isnt it? Some people say it is because they believe the government is guilt, so should take the blame.

Its lying by avoiding the guilt.

I am not one of these people. but the idea exists.



2) who told you the bible is based on lies? that's very poor scholarship.


Hehehe, i knew i was going to get hollered at for that.

Here on this site i find difficulty, people dont read what i write, they see the words and make assumptions. 2 different things.

i said. "Lets say"

As in, "Let us hypothetically discuss"


yet with the bible, as with scientific experimentation, it is testified to by the Spirit, who is real if only you had the humility and patience to call on Him. which i urge you to do in one of your quieter moments.


Sorry, no. Spirit cannot be measured, seen, smelt, heard. It stretches reality too much for me to believe in its existence.

I am a proud man, i do not bend at the knees, man or god. Here is something which no person has been able to answer me.

Why is a god better than a man?



so don't play that card about christianity being all about control. that is straight up fallacy and in complete ignorance of what the Bible teaches.


Hence why i asked you to go into the world of Hypothetics.

Unfortunatly the words i say dont mean anything anymore.



i will tell you personally, i had never read the bible until one event in my life a few years ago. the Son of God came thundering into my living room one night, and slapped me in the face for my wrongdoings, for want of a better expression.


Thats not very nice of him, he could of just talked to you.


I tell you in all truth that the Lord is alive. i'm just saying it so that it is said. it's not for you to believe nor disbelieve. only for you to hear/read.


hmmm, well Iesus, a man, did die once on a crucifix. I have no evidence saying he came back later, though. That is in the realms of fantasy and belief.



octavius, please, consider your position on the bible wisely. that means doing some hard research. and don't limit yourself to google.


hehehe, i never use google for research...or the internet for that matter.

Books
My first and forever love.


i would ask you to consider what authority you have before you make any claims about the Book. take it easy


And i would ask you to read the words in posts so as to extrapolate their meanings.

if you want a few little critical evaluations of the bible then, here you are.

I will talk of the Flood Myth, i like this story.

mostly because its written by 2 people, at 2 different times. They were crudely edited and put together.

The easiest way to see this is because one writer writes LORD (which in the original text was written YHWY) while the other writer writes God (originally Eloheim, meaning "Lord" in the social sense)

There are other ways of telling, the length of the flood is different halfway through the text, Noah sending out a raven to scour the earth for land, then other birds and the Raven completly disappears from the story.

now, i have read many flood myths. Each of them is very similar, but tracing the direct line of this story is fairly easy. This story (penned in 8th Century BC by one author and around 530BC-500BC for the other), the version we have that comes before is the Epic of Gilgamesh, written on Tablets around 704BC-681BC (but the story is older)

The story is basically the same thing, the Boat comes to Rest on Mount Numash, there are more gods, more story, etc. But it is almost exactly the same thing. Noah is Ut-Napishtim, the sacrifice at the end of the flood had meat in it, not just leaves, etc.

Then further along we have an even older text, same story, the Epic of Atrahasis- around 1700BC

The Epic mentions the ark builder as being 600 years old, just like Noah is in Genesis (hehe, this cracks me up)

The sacrifice to the gods once the waters recede is in this Epic, aswell.

In all 3 stories they are different gods, funnily enough. Different Ark builders, different mountains, etc.

Yet they are all the exact same story.

Alot of bible stories have other stories like this, the opening of Genesis is one of my favorite parts, very poetic. But the Adam and Eve story (Genesis 2? Why is Man created twice? Once in the 7 days, again in the garden) is quite old. The name 'Adam' means "man" in the original text.

So, with such "Apply gods name here" myths, how can i believe in the religion?



posted on Sep, 17 2007 @ 12:52 PM
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I haven't really read through this thread yet, and it's the first time I'm in the NWO-forum for quite a while, but I just dropped in to give a little info about all this talk about "real ID-cards". I live in Sweden, and I had to get myself a new identity card last year. I got two of them, first a regular passport - of the new kind, with all manner of fancy papers and holograms in it, but from what I can see, no RFID-chip.

I also got a new type of identity card (I think the cops called it something like "national ID-card", or something in that fashion), which has what I guess is an RFID-chip in it. At least, it looks like a chip. This ID-card, I was told, would possibly be valid as a passport (in the future) throughout the European Union and the Schengen countries, instead of a regular passport. I also got a PIN-code for it, though for now, the number code I was given has no purpose... But it might have a purpose in the future, or so I've been told...

What this means, well, your guess is as good as mine. I just thought y'all might be interested in hearing about it..



posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 01:39 PM
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The UK wants to introduce ID cards, bt there is no way in hell that I'm going to get one

I would rather spend the rest of my life in prison for not having one than have my ID card on me to potentially get stolen + lose everything I own...

They're actually pointless, are driving licenses not proof enough of who you are?

Laura x



posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 11:02 AM
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absolutely not! this is going to make thigns worse, not better!

Why? think about it. All your information will be available via that card. So what happens if your ID gets stolen? That means any illegal immigrant will have instant access to all your information. I have hundreds of pieces of paper that say I am who I say I am. If the government can't trust me enough that they need to tag all that information in a neat package for it to be easilly stolen then I don't want any part of it.

My drivers license expires in 2017. As far as I'm concerned, it is a valid document I don't care what the govt. thinks. Why don't the masses see the problem with this? don't they realize that this is more a kin to making us all into cattle for the govt. while they slowly take us to the slaughter?

No I won't take the ID card, nor will I get a chip implanted, and if the govt. want to try and force me to take it, I'd like to see them try.

[edit on 11-1-2008 by Question]



posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 11:13 AM
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Here's something from the Assosiated Press on Yahoo News that talks about the Real ID card. According to this, microchips won't be implemented into the card, as was thought before.

US unveils new drivers license rules





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