Sharon admits blowing up synagoges and to creating terrorism!!

www.cassiopaea.org...

Press CRTL-F and type "in his own word" (without the quotes).

Read the article that follows. That's the Interview.

Does anyone else think that peace is the last thing on this psychopath's mind?

[Edited on 12-1-2004 by lilblam]

Does anyone else think that peace is the last thing on this psychopath's mind?

I havnt read the interview yet and i know peace is thelast thing on Sharons mind... he was charged with war crimes for massacreing refugees in a refugee camp... now does that sound nice and peacful to you?

i read it. it sounds like him. it seems there might be some doubt as to the authenticity, though. the whole 'Z' thing.
interesting that he's russian. that's flown under my radar previously.

Unfortunately, there are many people who are willing to make things up or twist facts to push a political agenda. We all know this, and know to apply a degree of skepticism when we are fed information.

Yet for some reason, when the politics involves Israel or Ariel Sharon, many people are willing to set their skepticism aside and believe any vile thing that comes along. Some are even willing to continue to spread disinformation after they have been made aware that it is false.

Amos Oz is a well known Israeli writer. He tends to be critical of Sharon�s policies. He has, however never met Ariel Sharon. That interview was with an un-named Israeli extremist who died more than a decade ago.

purported to be said by Ariel Sharon 1982 as attributed to Amos Oz. However, Amos Oz, contacted recently, had the following statement to make: "I have never interviewed Mr. Sharon. I have never even met Mr. Sharon. The text you refer to is an interview with a private citizen, an Israeli extremist who died several years ago." We only note that Amos Oz is a professor at Ben Gurion University in Israel.

Source: www.cassiopaea.org...

You may notice that my source is the same web-site that where you found the interview that attributes those words to Sharon. I don�t know how you feel, but I think it�s disturbing that those that run that web-site are apparently aware of the mistake yet they still host the article that slanders Sharon.

Why would they do that?

By the way, you're not the only one who was fooled by this.

www.camera.org...

But by their fruits shall you know them. What has Sharon done to promote peace? Ok, how about, what has he done to promote war? What HAS Sharon been doing lately? Words and promises mean little, actions are what define the person. The problem with selecting government officials is, most people do not know them personally nor what the trend is as to how their words relate to what they actually do. Originally, this has not been so, in colonial America. The political process of election has been drastically altered, for the benefit of those running. Now any psychopath can be president/ruled/God/King/whatever.

So what has Sharon done to easy tentions, promote peace, offer humanitarian efforts?

Isn't he attempting segregation of a whole race of people? Like the nazis did with Jews? What is this, "the payback of the Jews?".
Is he not violating peace agreements, by attacking first adn then provoking return fire against him?

What about when people do not agree with his policies, does he not scream "Anti Semitism!"? He does NOT represent the Jews, he's just the leader of a government that represents Israel. Just because Israel is mostly a Jewish state, does NOT mean that whatever the government of Israel does is in the best interest of Jews and what they want. And the opposite. Anti-semitism does exist, but not in the case of applying it to Sharon's policies and actions.

Well, I've seen people on here quote this "rense" site often enough, so take it from them. rense.com

So rense is responsible enough to make it's corrections noticable. On the other hand apparently this casseopia site you quote the story from is not responsible and the fact that the correction appears elsewhere on their site shows me that they specifically want to continue spreading misinformation for their own reasons.

Oh well, muat be nice to say whatever you want without any accountability.

Originally posted by lilblam
But by their fruits shall you know them.

Exactly. You have printed a slanderous lie. Apparently this doesn�t bother you because the lie supports your point of view.

Originally posted by lilblam
What has Sharon done to promote peace? Ok, how about, what has he done to promote war? What HAS Sharon been doing lately?

What would you do in his place?

Originally posted by lilblam
Words and promises mean little, actions are what define the person.

Exactly, now apply that logic to the Palestinian-Arabs. What are their actions?

Originally posted by lilblam
The problem with selecting government officials is, most people do not know them personally nor what the trend is as to how their words relate to what they actually do. Originally, this has not been so, in colonial America. The political process of election has been drastically altered, for the benefit of those running. Now any psychopath can be president/ruled/God/King/whatever.

The first thing you do in resisting this is to support the truth. Something you don�t accomplish by printing a slanderous lie.

Originally posted by lilblam
So what has Sharon done to easy tentions, promote peace, offer humanitarian efforts?

Sharon was elected after these things were tried and failed to work.

Your question presumes that it�s up to Israel to make peace. The truth is it will take an honest commitment from both sides to make peace work. Israel has offered, continues to offer the Palestinian-Arabs sovereignty. All they need to do to make this happen is to decide that it�s more important to live in peace than to kill Israelis.

Originally posted by lilblam
Isn't he attempting segregation of a whole race of people? Like the nazis did with Jews? What is this, "the payback of the Jews?".

If Israel ever builds slave-labor camps for the Palestinian-Arabs, then I will join you in the Nazi comparisons and condemnation. Until then, such comparisons only demonstrate your ignorance of both Nazis and the Middle East.

Originally posted by lilblam
Is he not violating peace agreements, by attacking first adn then provoking return fire against him?

No.

Originally posted by lilblam
What about when people do not agree with his policies, does he not scream "Anti Semitism!"?

I haven�t heard him do that. Have you?

Originally posted by lilblam
He does NOT represent the Jews, he's just the leader of a government that represents Israel. Just because Israel is mostly a Jewish state, does NOT mean that whatever the government of Israel does is in the best interest of Jews and what they want.

Who says otherwise? You seem to be building a straw-man here. Why?

Originally posted by lilblam
And the opposite. Anti-semitism does exist, but not in the case of applying it to Sharon's policies and actions.

Telling lies, even if they do support your point of view, is wrong. If someone spreads a lie when they know it�s a lie, you don�t have to label that anti-Semitism to point out that it�s wrong. If you feel these lies are not motivated by anti-Semitism, fine, but what does motivate them? Why would someone repeat a story they know is false?

The definition of a Nazi is not dependent on whether they build slave labour camps.

Originally posted by John bull 1
The definition of a Nazi is not dependent on whether they build slave labour camps.

Do you care to expand on that?

Yes,certainly.

Your definition of a Nazi is flawed.
You could equally say that Israel is not a nazi country because it has never invaded Poland.By your fine distinction no country can be accused of Nazism unless it duplicates 1930's German history.

You fail to see the similarities.
For instance opression of religious minorities.
Illegal occupation of a neighbouring territory.
The creation of what amounts to Ghettos in Gaza City and all around the West Bank.
Idealogical ambition to annex an Isaeli "lebensraum".

No country is ever going tick every box of what would make you believe they were nazi.
But that a country who's actions you are defending ticks so many is food for thought.

If I may I'll also tackle another assertion that you make.You say above:

Originally posted by lilblam
What about when people do not agree with his policies, does he not scream "Anti Semitism!"?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I haven�t heard him do that. Have you?


It doesn't take a long search on Google to find this.Incidently it's from the Jerusalem News.

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon holds that antisemitism in Europe fuels the Continent's anti-Israel sentiments, especially in regard to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

In an interview published on the EUpolitix.com website Monday, Sharon expressed his beliefs that Europeans are inherently antisemitic, while their leaders are guilty of pushing a biased policy in the Middle East.

Sharon said there was "no separation" between antisemitic beliefs and criticism of Israel's policies in the Middle East.

www.jerusalemnewswire.com...


Now that's just two of the points that you've asserted as truths disproved.I would suggest you check before posting otherwise every post you make will justifiably be ignored.
I'm not sure I can be bothered to check the other points you've raised but I find it hard to accept you assertion that another member has posted "Slanderous lies" when you have posted untruths.(whether they are lies or you are just ignorant I can't say.)

Originally posted by John bull 1
Yes,certainly.

Your definition of a Nazi is flawed.
You could equally say that Israel is not a nazi country because it has never invaded Poland.By your fine distinction no country can be accused of Nazism unless it duplicates 1930's German history.

I think at the very least a valid comparison to Nazi Germany should involve a totalitarian dictatorship.

Originally posted by John bull 1
You fail to see the similarities.
For instance opression of religious minorities.
Illegal occupation of a neighbouring territory.
The creation of what amounts to Ghettos in Gaza City and all around the West Bank.
Idealogical ambition to annex an Isaeli "lebensraum".

It�s not that I fail to see them, it�s that I don�t agree they are similarities.

Israel does not oppress religious minorities. Israeli citizens are free to practice whatever religion they wish, and a good 20% of them choose to follow Islam. Israel allows Muslims to control the Temple Mount, even though it�s the most holy site to Judaism. That�s hardly oppression.

That the Palestinian-Arabs are predominantly Muslim does not equate to Israeli oppression of a religious minority. You might just as well say that the United States invasion of Japan in WWII was oppression of Buddhists. While it�s true that the majority of Japanese do practice Buddhism, that is not why we went to war with them.

The illegality of occupying neighboring territory is debatable. If for the sake of argument we were to agree it was illegal, it still makes for a poor comparison to Nazism; history is filled with examples of national borders changing through war.

There are no �ghettos� in the Gaza Strip or the West Bank. There are still �refugee camps� that have grown into cities and towns over the past 50 years, where the conditions are crowded, but that they remain so is due to Palestinian-Arab mismanagement of funds allocated to relieve these conditions.

Israel is often accused of "lebensraum", but the truth is they have only captured land in defensive wars, and have returned the vast majority of what was captured.

Originally posted by John bull 1
No country is ever going tick every box of what would make you believe they were nazi.
But that a country who's actions you are defending ticks so many is food for thought.

With enough imagination, you can find comparisons between anything, but don�t let that distract you from the differences. Nazi Germany made war on its neighbors; Israel had war brought to her. The Nazis made peace treaties so they could be broken later; Israel keeps her peace treaties. While any country can be criticized, extremist comparisons do not lead to constructive exchanges of ideas.

Originally posted by John bull 1
Sharon said there was "no separation" between antisemitic beliefs and criticism of Israel's policies in the Middle East.

I will concede the point. He did say it. However�

"Today there is no separation. We are talking about collective antisemitism. The state of Israel is a Jewish state and the attitude towards Israel runs accordingly."

�when you add the word Today it does change the context. He is not talking about all criticism of Israel.

Originally posted by John bull 1
Now that's just two of the points that you've asserted as truths disproved.I would suggest you check before posting otherwise every post you make will justifiably be ignored.

Two truths disproved? Let�s see, I think I shot down your Nazi comparisons and the �Sharon claims anti-Semitism� I had put forth as a question, not an assertion. If that�s your definition �truth disproved� then I don�t think I�ll mind being ignored by you.

Originally posted by John bull 1
I'm not sure I can be bothered to check the other points you've raised but I find it hard to accept you assertion that another member has posted "Slanderous lies" when you have posted untruths.(whether they are lies or you are just ignorant I can't say.)

He didn�t make up the slanderous lies, but he did repeat them and then defended them after the error had been pointed out. You don�t need to accept any assertion of mine when you can follow the links provided and check for yourself.

"Israel is often accused of "lebensraum", but the truth is they have only captured land in defensive wars, and have returned the vast majority of what was captured."

There you go again.You assert this as truth yet it is false.

Both the Suez War and the Six Day War were started by Israel each ended in significant terratorial gains.

It is you who is spreading disimformation.

I'm not going to go through everything you've said bit by bit because the one thing I do agree with you on is that much of this is about individual interpretation.

I would say that penning in an entire social group into say Gaza City and not allowing free passage and imposing brutal curfews sounds like a ghetto.You say they are "Refugee Camps" but the Germans didn't call them ghettos either.Ghetto is an historical term that the jews adopted.

"I think at the very least a valid comparison to Nazi Germany should involve a totalitarian dictatorship."

That is your definition.I believe that the primary issue of what allows comparisons to be made is whether the said country has foreign and domestic policy based on race.Israel does and it considers Palestinians as sub human.That for me is the prime nazi trait.

Why don't we start by you cataloging any "slanderous lies" that you believe have been posted on this thread.

and then I will deal with them and find out if they are lies or if you are just blind to the truth.

Originally posted by John bull 1
Both the Suez War and the Six Day War were started by Israel each ended in significant terratorial gains.

If you read through the history, you would see that the Suez War and the Six Day War are really just continuations of the 1948 War of Independence for Israel. In both the Suez War and the Six Day War, Israeli action was preceded by increasing Egyptian provocation. I could go through the details for you, but in both cases Israel was defending itself against a prepared attack.

Originally posted by John bull 1
It is you who is spreading disimformation.

I'm not going to go through everything you've said bit by bit because the one thing I do agree with you on is that much of this is about individual interpretation.

???! You claim I�m spreading disinformation and then in the very next breath say it�s all about individual interpretation?

Be honest, you�re just arguing to argue, right?

Originally posted by John bull 1
I would say that penning in an entire social group into say Gaza City and not allowing free passage and imposing brutal curfews sounds like a ghetto.You say they are "Refugee Camps" but the Germans didn't call them ghettos either.Ghetto is an historical term that the jews adopted.

I would say it�s tragic.

Yes, �ghetto� is a historic term. In the 16th century the city of Venice decided that all the Jews would be restricted to one area of the city called �Ghetto Novo�. The Venetian word for foundry was �geto�, that was the area of Venice that once had foundries.

A �ghetto� is where people are kept. Checkpoints and curfews do not make a ghetto because they don�t determine where people live. That�s why I started talking about refugee camps when you said ghetto.

The Palestinian-Arab refugee camps in Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Egypt are where Palestinian-Arabs are kept. These are places where Palestinian-Arabs have been living for generations while being denied basic human dignities such as citizenship.

In the disputed territories, funds have been made available from Israel, NGOs and other countries to relocate people from the refugee camps and improve their conditions. Arafat and the Palestinian Authority have opted to use these funds in other ways.

So who is responsible for the ghettos?

Originally posted by John bull 1
That is your definition.I believe that the primary issue of what allows comparisons to be made is whether the said country has foreign and domestic policy based on race.Israel does and it considers Palestinians as sub human.That for me is the prime nazi trait.

And yet none of your initial four comparisons to Nazi Germany involved race at all. How is that?

So in what way does Israel regard Palestinian-Arabs as �sub-human�?

Originally posted by John bull 1
Why don't we start by you cataloging any "slanderous lies" that you believe have been posted on this thread.

and then I will deal with them and find out if they are lies or if you are just blind to the truth.

Look at the opening post.

"One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." -- Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994 [Source: New York Times, Feb. 28, 1994, p. 1]

"It is forbidden to be merciful to them, you must give them missiles, with relish � annihilate them. Evil ones, damnable ones," Rabbi Ovadia Yosef about the Palestinian people [Source: The Times, UK - 4/10/01]

"There is a huge gap between us (Jews) and our enemies not just in ability but in morality, culture, sanctity of life, and conscience." -- Israeli president Moshe Katsav. Jerusalem Post, May 10, 2001

"The Palestinians are like crocodiles, the more you give them meat, they want more".... -- Ehud Barak, Prime Minister of Israel at the time - August 28, 2000. Reported in the Jerusalem Post, August 30, 2000

"[The Palestinians are] beasts walking on two legs." -- Menahim Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the Beasts". New Statesman, 25 June 1982.

"The Palestinians" would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls." -- Israeli Prime Minister (?) in a speech to Jewish settlers. New York Times, April 1, 1988

"We must do everything to ensure they [the Palestinian refugees] never do return" -- David Ben-Gurion, in his diary, July 18 1948

"There was no such thing as Palestinians, they never existed." Golda Meir Israeli Prime Minister June 15, 1969

"If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country." -- David Ben-Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister) Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox),

"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." -- Israel Koenig, "The Koenig Memorandum"

"We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves." -- Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983. This racist view was publicly repudiated by the Israeli public.

"When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle." -- Rafael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Forces, New York Times, 14 April 1983.

"We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimeter of Eretz Israel... Force is all they do or ever will understand. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours." -- Rafael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defense Forces - Gad Becker, Yediot Aharonot, 13 April 1983, New York Times 14 April 1984

"Everybody has to move, run and grab as many hilltops as they can to enlarge the settlements because everything we take now will stay ours... Everything we don't grab will go to them." Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.