Couple flies flag upside down.

An upside-down flag is a widely recognized symbol for "distress", there is nothing disrespectful about it.

It means "we're in trouble, HELP!" like an SOS.

For your reference: United States Flag Code

The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.

In other words, while it might be an iffy interpretation, flying the flag upside-down is a legitimate use of the flag as a symbol, unlike, say, burning it in a protest.

[edit on 8/8/07 by xmotex]

xmotex, only in military lingo.. It can't be applied to a civilian act when I am willing to bet that 80% of the populace doesn't even know what an upside down flag actually is used for.

Originally posted by twitchy
I live in Asheville, but I hadn't heard anything about it, will check into it. Mark and Deborah Kuhn, the names sound familiar.
I wouldn't doubt it, Asheville is pretty well known to be a bit of a hippie town, but there's a huge pool of right wing nut jobs here for sure.

Haha, I live in Sylva, NC for most of the year, not but 40 minutes from Asheville. Love the town, nice place. Think about it, were in the mountains of North Carolina, of course there are you're extreme righties, but there are just as many extreme lefties. A well balanced region. I didn't hear about this story, but sounds like a case of an individual either loosing some of his marbles or overreacting. I can't say I like what they did, but I don't think it should be a punishable offense either.

But there are two sides to every story and one says they did nothing wrong, the other says they slammed a door on his hand, cutting it with broken glass. All I can say is an investigation is in order. We'll see.

I think it's amusing Americans can get so worked up over a piece of cloth.

xmotex, only in military lingo.. It can't be applied to a civilian act when I am willing to bet that 80% of the populace doesn't even know what an upside down flag actually is used for.

The United States Flag Code is not a US military document, it's a US federal law, and it doesn't say anything about use of the upside-down flag being restricted to military use.

As far as 80% of people not knowing what it means, hell I'm sure it's like 98%, but that doesn't change anything, it means what it means.

Originally posted by xmotex



As far as 80% of people not knowing what it means, hell I'm sure it's like 98%, but that doesn't change anything, it means what it means.

Really? Even when people do it intending it to be an action of disrespect? No, the it means what it means argument doesn't fly.



[edit on 9-8-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by watch_the_rocks
I think it's amusing Americans can get so worked up over a piece of cloth.

Many things are amusing. It's amusing that people get worked up over being called names, yet they do.

Originally posted by watch_the_rocks
I think it's amusing Americans can get so worked up over a piece of cloth.

I think every country gets irrationally worked up over something. Europeans get irrationally worked up over football (soccer). People in Islam countries got worked up over the Danish Muhammed cartoons, and Americans get worked up over their sacred star spangled banner.

Hanging a flag upside down is not a sign of disrespect. It's a sign of distress, as in "my country is under attack" or some such. With all that's going on right now, how can anyone think that our country is not distressed? IMHO, flying the flag upside down is a sign of respect for one's country because it's a sign that the U.S. is in danger and it is being acknowledged.

Right after 9/11, there were a number of flags displayed upside down in my neighborhood in California, because our country was under attack.

It's in the flag code and that is what we follow regarding our flag and how to fly/display it.

I lived in Sylva for 20 years and now an next door in Franklin. The latest: The cop is still working and the Sheriff did nothing about it; typical. Unless the deputy here kills you without cause you have no chance of a fair shake.

If the Kuhn's do not sue they are crazy. I am still following this and will do anything I can do make sure it is'nt ignored. Damn cops.

I'm sure that whoever has seen 'Last Castle' will know the significance of an upsidedown flag.

Finally if the US Flag Code states that "the upsidedown flag is only to be used in a state of distress, namely damage to life or property" then I see this usage of the upsidedown flag as improper and inappropriate.

There was no danger to personal property or life here.
They were just trying to sensationalize the gesture(probably after seeing the movie 'Last Castle') and thus politicize it.

Obviously the police officer's actions are horrifying but flying upsidedown flags to make a political statement is not very noble either.

Originally posted by twitchy
I live in Asheville, but I hadn't heard anything about it, will check into it. Mark and Deborah Kuhn, the names sound familiar.
I wouldn't doubt it, Asheville is pretty well known to be a bit of a hippie town, but there's a huge pool of right wing nut jobs here for sure.

You didn't? They were in the paper a few weeks back. But the charges against them were dropped. I'm also from Asheville.

All charges were dropped; since the Deputy was making an illegal arrest, as the Supreme Court ruled long ago that the NC statutes were unConsitutional, they could not pursue the phony ' assaulting a government official ; nonsense. That was a total lie on the cops part; many eyewitnesses saw the cop smash the glass door and run in the house and assault the man. The lying filthy cop just said that the innocent homeowners were the ones who assaulted him!!

In North Carolina, it is LEGAL to resist an illegal action by a cop; for example, some years ago a cop arrested some guy for reselling tickets to some sporting event; the cop thought there was a law against it but there was not. The guy that had the ticket resisted the cop and fought him. The court declared that since the reason for the arrest was bogus, the cop could not claim any legal rights to expect that a citizen should cooperate and allow an illegal arrest. You can fight the cops here and resist if the cop is making an illegal arrest.

So all charges were dropped, and the Kuhn's are fools if they do not sue this out of control pig for everything he owns or will own. A Federal civil rights trial, for damages, and a request for an FBI investigation into criminal civil rights violations, would be a start. The corrupt Sheriff in Buncombe County did NOTHING but have a ' chat ' with the offending pig, and he is still out there with a badge and gun and a crazed and sick attitude about his authority.

Also, there is a case now going thru Asheville courts concerning a guy who holds a sign from the overpasses, all legally. He stops for a few minutes a day and holds a sign in his hands that says what he feels politically. Since the sign does not praise our Fuhrer Bush, some pig Police Sgt. arrested the guy and charged him with some stupid law that did not apply, so he changed it to ' blocking a sidewalk ' even though the guy was NOT blocking anything and people could walk easily around him; he was innocent and is a victim of police misconduct for having content that did not meet the approval of the pigs!!

Imagine that: if the local sick, filthy, redneck, drooling , illiterate pig does not agree with your politics, then he just arrests you on some trumped up charge or for a totally unrelated charge..that way they ' show us who the boss is ' while making trouble for the innocent citizen.

Then, even if the charges are dismissed, the cop feels like he won because he ruined the persons day, made them post bond, get an attorney, and fight the spurious charges. The pig usually doesnt't even show for court; it would be too embarassing for them and the prosecutors, who are just as bad as the cops..but the ONLY way to stop this garbage is to SUE THE HELL OUT OF THEM!! AND write letters to the editor, print flyers and tack them to light poles..raise hell with the pigs superiors, and always SUE in court for damages.

When you SUE a filthy pig, they have to really squirm and twist to get a city attorney behind them; in some cases, the pig does not get immunity, and may be liable for damages without any help from the insurance companies, etc. They are left twisting in the wind all alone to pay out the nose for their illegal and sick actions against the people.

The local cops here know me well; I have already shamed them badly in court and now they leave me alone. It is really neat to know that they are intimidated by ME and not me by THEM!! they know that ANY violation of my rights WILL result in a big stink and legal trouble for them. Example: Day before yesterday my daughter and I were driving home on a winding road; a sheriffs deputy ( two ) in a pickup truck with blue lights followed me for about 5 miles, right behind me. Of course I followed all the rules of the road..just when I was nearing the end of the road, they pulled me over. I have long hair and drive a black Benz; maybe I am a bad guy?

I gave them my papers and license and the cop said " Do you know you were going 55 in a 35? And you touched the yellow line once or twice..and your left brake light is out.." I said " Thanks for letting me know about the brake light, I will get it fixed right away ". the cop then asked me " Where are you going?" That was all it took; I said " It is none of your Goddamned business where I am going, or where I have been..either give me a ticket for my attorney to fight or leave me alone. I will answer NO personal questions ".

The cop went to his truck and radioed and talked and walked back and handed me my papers and said " Get that tail light fixed :, and left!! No ticket, no more Constitution violating questions, no hassles. I have no doubt that the dispatcher told them who I was; I am well known in the papers as an editorial writer and a student of police misconduct matters.

If they come for me they better have their act together and not make one mistake, lest they find themselves in a federal courtroom explaining why they play fast and loose with my rights. i LOVE to see lying cops squirm on the stand and see the looks on the facaes in the crowd as the lies become obvious and the cops stories get more and more unbelievable as time goes on and my attorney sharpens his teeth for the kill. It KILLS the cops to be exposed as liars and embarrassed on the stand as incompetent and devious liars and lawbreakers..I LOVE that part!!

And, the cops who have any brains leave you alone after that unless they want more of the same; it is empowering to take a stand and draw the line in the sand and dare one of the thugs to cross it. Most cops are all bluff anyway; cowards and bullies that are unable to do anything without a crowd around to support them, and to lie for them. I use cameras,. audio and video taping at all times on the road and at home to document any contacts with the cops; it is the best evidence. And do not let any lying cop tell you that you cannopt film or record them, that is a total lie.

If THEY can record us, we can record them, simple. No law says otherwise. the cops HATE to be filmed because they are ALWAYS lying and breaking the laws and they do not want witnesses to their evil deeds. Why else hate the cameras? If I had my way, every cop that violates ANY rights or that breaks ANY law should be fired and charged criminally as well as civilly immediately.

Never be intimidated by cops; they are only bluffers and bullies and when you take a stand they will back down, or get sued!!

reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint


Unfortunately, YES. I live in such an area and my life has been threatened for attending an anti-nuke protest. I fully believe that if my neighbors knew my political beliefs i would be killed.

I wonder if this slab of bacon also stopped and roughed up ever "patriot" with a flag strapped to their car antenna that had since turned yellow and been stripped to ribbons.

Its amazing to me as a current law enforcement officer how Deputies and Officers get involved in the things they do. I do my job, I like to think I do it quite well...if I didn't I wouldn't have lasted almost 6 years in this kind of job.

If a couple wants to fly the flag upside down so be it. They might just be honoring the distress that our country is in, and I can understand that. If they are just people who think it's cool to not show respect for a symbol of the country that gives them the rights and freedoms to do such stuff then that's their choice. One things for sure, noone is worth possible job loss and a civil suit over an event like this....no matter how pissed off it makes you. Just go home at the end of your shift and fly your flag high and proud instead.

Lastly...eyewitness, some man you must be..lol. Bragging about all the times you have been locked up and won! Then bragging how your apparently tougher and smarter then everyone who wears a badge. Now you can think of me and my fellow officers anyway you choose....something tells me their thoughts about you in your area are great too....and maybe you were mistreated, and still carry that with you. Or maybe, just maybe your a real piece of work (and from the things you write in your posts you just might be) but just think about something....you said you have a daughter, now god forbid anything were to happen, but if so....who do you think will be the first ones there to help her? Who may save her life someday? Who may she have to turn to if something happens? I'm sure your hate for us has been spewed all over your child/kids...I'm sure they are being raised wonderfully....so after reading how you view the only people going to be there for you in a crisis I wonder to myself.....what makes him any different then the Deputy he just badmouthed who used his anger the wrong way! Nothing So in reality you just badmouthed yourself.....

wow rcw we meet again!
i believe 99% of cops are great- but in this case if one of them smashed a window to gain illegal entry to my home for some stupid reason over a flag just because he was mad i gaurantee he would NOT be a cop anymore and his family would have nice funeral bills. and i would take my chances in court
i don't give a rats ass if he had ptd or what. that is no excuse- being a cop is to uphold the law protect the citizens and not terrorize them.
you want to come in my home fine- get a warrant- search anything you want
don't have one?
i will treat you like a common criminal breaking into my home- be prepared- esp. if it is in a rage of fury and i believe i will be killed or injured
and is i said before rcw after reading your posts i believe you are one of the good ones so kudos to you!!!
but it is also up to you tell help rat out the bad ones

hey bigfoot....as hard as it will be for some to believe this, I agree with you. I love my job and believe in what I do. As do most of my fellow officers/deputies...but yes unfortunatly there are bad apples in every bunch. None of us in the law enforcement profession should want to break into peoples homes or do things that cast a shadow over us.

Problem is WAY to many officers/deputies take this job to heart and make things personal. Or even worse yet they take the job home with them at night. NOT A GOOD THING! We see and deal with things that the average citizen will never have too. Some of those things are highly stressful (shootings, riots. fights), some are emotional (dead children, abused children, rape victims, death period), some are annoying (crackheads, drunks), and some are rewarding (rescue from accidents, hostage situations, burning cars/buidlings). So it is a job that can easily take a person over if they let it. Is that an excuse for breaking into a house because someone pissed you off no, but its like EVERYONE else...we all have our reasons for doing something dumb !

I try to treat the public and people I deal with the same way I would want to be treated if I were NOT a LEO. So thanks for the support bigfoot, and as for your reaction to ANYONE breaking into your home..I'm again in total agreement. When we do searches the right way, or enter a property the right way we will never have a problem.

it's cloth with some blue, red, and white dye, get over it. the only difference is that we say it is something, it's just a symbol.
if someone was desecrating the constitution, that would be a different story... oh wait, that's what the cop was doing.

reply to post by rcwj75


"We all have our reasons for doing something dumb"

I agree with that statement, however police do not suffer the same consequences that your average civilian will suffer for "doing something dumb". This officer violated the rights of these homeowners, yet he still wears a badge. If I break into a home cause I am angry for any reason, I will be charged with breaking and entering and more than likely go to prison. That is the difference and that is why people like eyewitness and myself have very similar attitudes about police officers.

To touch on something else you said.... you blasted eyewitness about his daughter and what he would do if anything happened to her. Of course any reasonable person would expect him to call the police and ask for help...after all that is what a public servant is there for. So what? He is not supposed to expect a police officer to actually do his job because he feels that a fair amount may be incompetent and clueless? The whole argument that police are here to help does not give any officer the right to act as they please. I will be very suspicious of any officer because I HAVE TO. Cases of police misconduct, brutality, etc etc stretches VERY far back. Before you even put on your badge. Of course not all police are bad guys, but they are all not good guys either. ESPECIALLY police officers who really do not know the laws that are are sworn to uphold and officers like that have no place in LAW ENFORCEMENT. After all, it is tough to enforce laws when you do not know them.