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Student Arrested For Flushing Koran, Charged With Hate Crime

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posted on Jul, 30 2007 @ 08:16 PM
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Given the discussion going on about the person who burned the American flag, I thought I would post this example of what I see as a double standard:


Police yesterday arrested a Pace University student born in the former Soviet Union and charged him with a hate crime for allegedly clogging toilets with the Koran on two occasions last year.

Business major Stanislav Shmulevich, 23, was collared at his Brooklyn home after cops confronted him with surveillance photos from the incidents last Oct. 13 and Nov. 21.

In both cases, a teacher discovered a Koran in a second-floor toilet at 1 Pace Plaza in lower Manhattan.



Hate Crime?

How does this classify as a hate crime, and burning the flag equals "freedom of speech"?

[edit on 30-7-2007 by jsobecky]




posted on Jul, 30 2007 @ 08:23 PM
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Any idea how I can donate money for his lawyers?



posted on Jul, 30 2007 @ 08:43 PM
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The background for this incident stems from the refusal of the University to allow a film called "Obsession" from being shown on campus. The film supposedly shows muslims in a bad light, according to muslim students.

Obsession

So now, we have the university censoring films shown at the school.



posted on Jul, 30 2007 @ 09:13 PM
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Look, if someone wants to flush their own Koran down their own toilet, they should be allowed to do so.

However, this may be a case where the student was either using someone else's Koran or flusing it down someone else's toilet. The Koran flushing may have created considerable physical damage to someone else's property which could have amounted to vandalism. For example, he could have flooded the entire floor with nasty toilet water. If his Koran flushing was an act of vandalism, perhaps the hate crime charge is justified.

On the other hand there seems to be a double standard in this country. If someone did the same thing with a Christian Bible I highly doubt that their would be charges pressed.



posted on Jul, 30 2007 @ 09:18 PM
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I'm sorry, I don't see how an act of vandalism translates into a hate crime. What is the logic there?



posted on Jul, 30 2007 @ 09:44 PM
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If he did it just to insult Islam/Muslims and say somehow they and there religion
are lower than him (all religions are the same to me, that is faerie tales), than yes,
it is a hate crime.

Burning a flag is not a hate crime since by doing so you are demonstrating
your disgust with the government or some specific aspect(s) of sociopolitical culture,
not saying that you're better than America/ns.



posted on Jul, 30 2007 @ 09:48 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
I'm sorry, I don't see how an act of vandalism translates into a hate crime. What is the logic there?


If you commit an act of vandalism (and without knowing more details like the extent of the damage caused, this may or may not have been an act of vandalism) and were motivated by racial hatred, you commited a hate crime. Vandalizing a synagogue or church is a hate crime. So would writing racial epithets on the wall of someone's house or place of work.



posted on Jul, 30 2007 @ 09:55 PM
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I think he should be charged with stealing and destroying the book, but no more than he'd be if it was a copy of Moby Dick.

I bet if you replaced 'Koran' with 'Bible' in this story, the ACLU would be fighting for this guy's free speech rights.



posted on Jul, 30 2007 @ 09:58 PM
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I assume flushing a book down a toilet would be rather difficult. Placing a book in the toilet and symbolicly flushing it, is probably a more accurate description.

Was there damage?

Did someone get hurt?

What is the crime exactly? lol

And most of all, who cares? Why is this news?



posted on Jul, 30 2007 @ 10:08 PM
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Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint

Originally posted by jsobecky
I'm sorry, I don't see how an act of vandalism translates into a hate crime. What is the logic there?


If you commit an act of vandalism (and without knowing more details like the extent of the damage caused, this may or may not have been an act of vandalism) and were motivated by racial hatred, you commited a hate crime. Vandalizing a synagogue or church is a hate crime. So would writing racial epithets on the wall of someone's house or place of work.

Oh, well then how do you classify submerging a crucifix in a vial of urine, or defacing a statue of Holy Mary with feces? Art?

And what you are referring to has nothing to do with race, but maybe with religion.



posted on Jul, 30 2007 @ 10:11 PM
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Originally posted by iori_komei
Burning a flag is not a hate crime since by doing so you are demonstrating
your disgust with the government or some specific aspect(s) of sociopolitical culture,
not saying that you're better than America/ns.

Now, how could you possibly know the motivation of every single flag-burner?

[edit on 30-7-2007 by jsobecky]



posted on Jul, 30 2007 @ 10:23 PM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77
I bet if you replaced 'Koran' with 'Bible' in this story, the ACLU would be fighting for this guy's free speech rights.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Believe me, I have no love for any religion, but when the hell did it become okay to completely # on most but have to pussy foot around another?
Christianity in all of its denominations is just a big fat target all of the time, which is fine. In fact, when in the form of humor I loff and loff at a good Christian joke. How about a priest and an alter boy joke? Boy oh boy, nothin's funnier than an alter boy kneeling? Right? And don't get me started on Jew jokes, I mean come on, those Christ killers deserve it, right, right, am I right here people?

But God for-effing-bid we offend Muslims. What is wrong with this country? I become more and more disgusted with it every year.

This is America, and freedom of speech means it's either all okay, or none of it is.

And another thing, this hate crime nonsense has to stop. If you commit a crime, you've committed a crime. You shouldn't get punished more because one type of motivation offends people more, and especially a type of motivation that can only be assumed in most cases.
Whatever, I could rant about this for hours.

The bottom line is that's it's white christian heterosexuals whom feel guilty that are the reason this has gotten so bad.



posted on Aug, 1 2007 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
I'm sorry, I don't see how an act of vandalism translates into a hate crime. What is the logic there?


It is that old double standard one for them and one for us. If the book belonged to who ever threw it in the toilet that is their business they owned it. If they wanted they could burn it that is called freedom of expression, now if they did not own the book that is a whole new issue.



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