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We’ll Have Two Suns 5 years From Now! The Approaching Catastrophe?

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posted on Feb, 13 2008 @ 02:17 AM
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reply to post by RuneSpider
 


Never mind the pain of repeating myself, but here it is again for your benefit. You asked why has the BD not been detected as yet?


Recently, researchers discovered what might be a brown dwarf wandering alone through space just 13 light-years from Earth -- practically in our backyard. And there might be many more, some even closer, researchers say. But they would be cooler, fainter and even tougher to spot with existing telescopes.
www.space.com...


The velocity of Brown dwarfs, like neutron stars could be well above 500 miles/sec. That means they could travel 15,768,000,000 per year or 78,840,000,000 miles in 5 years or approx 80,000,000,000 miles. Pluto is 3,000,000,000 miles away on the average.

That means at present, the BD is about 26 times the distance Pluto is from here. It may be extremely faint, emitting negligible IR/UV radiation. Is that probably the reason why it hasn’t been detected as yet? Perhaps detection is a matter of time. The question is not 'if' but 'when'!

And then, what if 'they' have already detected it with all the fancy gizmos at their disposal but chosen not to publicize it due to obvious reasons?

Beware! It may be heading toward the Solar System at a breathtaking 1,800,000 miles per hour!!

Seriously, a fairly large object traveling at that velocity, skimming our Solar System would be disastrous. And in 5 years time! That's 2012/2013!! Does that date ring a bell? You bet!!

Cheers!






[edit on 13-2-2008 by mikesingh]




posted on Feb, 13 2008 @ 07:24 AM
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Originally posted by RuneSpider
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


Well, seeing as how we have found brown dwarfs, then it is indeed possible to detect them. Since most objects of a size equal to, greater than, or slightly lesser than Jupiter would be noticeable upon entrance of the solar system, and since no one has reported siting of similar objects, i'm a bit against this theory.

[edit on 12-2-2008 by RuneSpider]


Yeah, i can't say that i feel that it is likely.

However, what i am proposing is a different thought process that allows for one to consider things as probability, not possibility.

Just because we have seen brown dwarfs doesn't mean we can detect ALL brown dwarfs.



posted on Feb, 13 2008 @ 08:31 AM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


Brown dwarfs fall into a certain class, anything that doesn't fit into that class is something else, not a brown dwarf. So maybe there is something heading for us that is otherwise invisible but similar in size to Jupiter. Astronomers are sometimes able to detect bodies in space due to their movements blocking out other bodies. Since from or perspective space is fairly static, it'd be like covering a series of lights with your hand.
And keep in mind, while we don't know everything, we do know somethings. We know pretty well, and can track the movements of the planets, most of their moons, and many of the comets and other objects. A large object on the scale of Jupiter or larger would have a noticeable impact on the orbits of the planets.



posted on Feb, 13 2008 @ 09:05 AM
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reply to post by RuneSpider
 



We "know" or we "think we know"?

For years we have known things that now we believe to be incorrect. Spontaneous Generation is one fine example that i like to use.

The brown dwarf thing....nature doesn't classify. That is a human thing. I use the term to describe something along the lines of our points of reference. You can call this theoretical celestial body whatever you want....

As well, consider that the may only appear static at this point in time. Our presence (both individually, and collectively) does not seem to have enough tenure to really assess the true dynamic nature of our universe.



posted on Feb, 13 2008 @ 09:16 AM
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If any object with the mass of a Brown Dwarf passed through the inner Solar System within the past few million years, we wouldn't be here. It would at best perturb out orbit with disastrous consequences for all life on earth.

So why suddenly suppose one is approaching now. Given also that no-one can detect it?

Why not just propose a mutant space goat instead? Makes as much sense.



posted on Feb, 13 2008 @ 11:20 AM
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Originally posted by Essan
If any object with the mass of a Brown Dwarf passed through the inner Solar System within the past few million years, we wouldn't be here. It would at best perturb out orbit with disastrous consequences for all life on earth.
So why suddenly suppose one is approaching now. Given also that no-one can detect it?




Researchers have said a close stellar flyby might have lured Sedna into its odd orbit. A proximity of between 14 billion and 19 billion miles (22.5-30.5 billion kilometers) could have disrupted the outer Kuiper Belt without altering the paths of the inner planets, they found.
www.space.com...


So if it could have happened eons ago, it can happen again - soon! And there’s more. Can be taken with a pinch of salt, if you like.....


The problems started a few years ago when the current approach of the Dark Star began to create resonance effects on Sol, our own sun. Kerry and I presumed these resonance effects are electromagnetic in nature rather than purely gravitational, but again we didn’t verify this. This, crucially, is what is causing the current increase in solar activity, and the rapid heating up not only of Earth (as in global warming), but of every planet in the system.”
Bill’s contact ‘Henry’ is an ex-Livermore Physicist with verifiable credentials, whose full identity is known to Bill and Kerry.

Henry describes a secret knowledge of the existence off the Dark Star within governmental organizations in the United States of America.
The existence of the Dark Star, or ‘Second Sun’, has been deduced by military astrophysicists to account for gravitational anomalies, like the verified slowing of the Pioneer probes.

Scientific work carried out by American Governmental organizations factor in the existence of the Dark Star when conducting relevant calculations, in particular regarding planetary climate studies in the solar system.
www.darkstar1.co.uk...



Why not just propose a mutant space goat instead? Makes as much sense.


Nope! Because all this makes a little more sense than proposing a mutant goat!



posted on Feb, 13 2008 @ 01:44 PM
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Mike,you've proved my point. Sedna may have been perturbed into its current elliptical orbit by a brown dwarf which passed close to the solar system but did not come close enough to affect the inner planets.

If such a brown dwarf did come closer we'd have been in an erratic elliptical orbit as well


So no such body has come close in at least millions (probably thousands of millions of years). So why suppose one will do so now?

For those who do believe, the B Ark is waiting



posted on Feb, 13 2008 @ 06:43 PM
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Originally posted by Essan
Mike,you've proved my point. Sedna may have been perturbed into its current elliptical orbit by a brown dwarf which passed close to the solar system but did not come close enough to affect the inner planets.

If such a brown dwarf did come closer we'd have been in an erratic elliptical orbit as well


So no such body has come close in at least millions (probably thousands of millions of years). So why suppose one will do so now?

For those who do believe, the B Ark is waiting


OK, i am editing this because i am lazy, didn't bother to read WHO posted the above quoted post, and now have to issue the correction. 60 hours a week wears one down, and i am cross eyed from hours in Excel.
I apologize to both posters involved. now back to the show:

I mean no disrespect. I am just wanting to discuss some of the thoughts that i have about how uncertain our "certainty" really is.

But the above seems a bit presumptive. I understand that our current model of the universe would not allow for it. But also keep in mind that when we say "our current model" we are really referring to what is the most commonly accepted/taught theories. It does little to account for newer, less developed models. It also excludes any concept of "unknown." Might i also remind any reader in the audience that our currently accepted models had to invent something that there is no evidence of (outside of being implied via the current models mathematics) when we injected "dark matter" into the equation. I mean, honestly, "dark matter" seems awfully similar to that goat you refer to. But since it props up the current theory....



Further, there are currently some landmarks in the solar system that our current model cannot account for. Take for example, Valles Marineris. How did it get there? There is not the extensive weathering that you would expect to see from a landmark existing on a dynamic planet. As a matter of fact, I would say that this mark happened right around the same time that Mars "lost its atmosphere" (something else that is not quite true...but we won't belabor that here). I refer to some great cataclysmic event that seems to have gouged the deepest known valley in the solar system into a planet half the size of Earth. It was a significant event, and appears to have spread debris over the entire planet (those huge boulders must have come from somewhere, and they don't appear to be very wind eroded) I would further state that Mons Olympus might also be linked into this. Consider its location (apparently in such a symmetrical location to the great valley).

How do we reconcile what happened to Mars? Did it just spontaneously appear? There was a cataclysm in the past, and this cataclysm could be evidence of the brown dwarf (although i only refer to a massive object that may or may not be a brown dwarf).

Now, here is the real kicker for me: it is being proven more and more that there is a link between electricity and gravity (see my thread on Ning Li for more details). Further, the Plasma Cosmology theory is gaining more and more momentum. So, for entertainment, consider:

The alleged gravity that you refer to is not as existent in a body that is not as highly charged. Not to say that it has no gravity (as one would assume that it would have to carry some level of charge), just saying that the presence of the "solar wind" imparts some level of gravitational influence on the bodies it interacts with.

Certainly, in such an environment it would be logical that, lacking the point of reference of existence OUTSIDE the environment, gravity and mass are tied at the hip. However, is it not possible that we miss the electrical influence on the equation? If so, this might certainly account for the errors in our current models.

Consider also that this would explain gravitational variance in our history. By gravitational varience, i refer to the sheer size of various creatures in our planets past (both long term and short term) and the apparent inability for their own bodies to be able to physically support such mass in our current gravitational environment.

Now, this is all conjecture and i am shooting from the hip. But, to me there seems to be some real questions that keep me from forming a specific opinion other than "well, it could be possible"


[edit on 13-2-2008 by bigfatfurrytexan]



posted on Feb, 13 2008 @ 06:59 PM
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How can a crocodile stay alive as a species for millions of years?

How can anything crawling, swimming, walking, climbing, or soaring be alive today?

Seems to me, if you really think about it...

If this planet were to be consumed by a twin sun or any other major catastrophe-prone event, it would be on some sort of cycle.

Nothing would be able to survive and thrive if this planet were so prone to disaster.

Even if so....

Why is everyone so damned worried?

Everyone dies.....

Just accept it.

Once you realize that, any major catastrophe is a challenge!

I say BRING IT ON!!!!!



posted on Feb, 13 2008 @ 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by IMAdamnALIEN
How can a crocodile stay alive as a species for millions of years?

How can anything crawling, swimming, walking, climbing, or soaring be alive today?

Seems to me, if you really think about it...

If this planet were to be consumed by a twin sun or any other major catastrophe-prone event, it would be on some sort of cycle.

Nothing would be able to survive and thrive if this planet were so prone to disaster.

Even if so....

Why is everyone so damned worried?

Everyone dies.....

Just accept it.

Once you realize that, any major catastrophe is a challenge!

I say BRING IT ON!!!!!


It is not worry. and we are not talking about being swallowed up. We are talking about massive system wide perturbations that could possibly have driven many of the known cataclysmic events in our studied history.

Catastrophe being a challenge is a fool hearty concept. Overwhelming odds are not challenging. They are demoralizing and destructive. It is a bad bet, illogical, and will bring the wrath of the universal law of consequence almost every single time.



posted on Feb, 13 2008 @ 07:16 PM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


I think you may have missed the point.

Its cool though



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 05:37 AM
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Originally posted by mikesingh

Check out alien civilisation Types here... as per Dr Michio Kaku. There are other papers too on this which you can Google.

Cheers!




Thanks for that link!

Looks like i have a lot more interesting reading to do now



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 06:47 AM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


I would say that if something is unavoidable (and if mikes theory is correct and we geta brown dwarf arround our backyard in 5 years ) , then the only thing it provides is a challange ..why
? well because you can research , research , make assumptions , debunk mainstream scientist , and try to put it into the open ..

but at the end its You VS Major catastrophe (that will probably kill 95% of all life on earth ah and its unavoidable) so I would say a challange is all that this is



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 07:56 AM
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A challenge, if i am not mistaken, is something that you at least have a chance of surviving. Otherwise, it is a massacre.

But i am sure that each of us has our own understanding that helps us get through the day.



posted on Feb, 22 2008 @ 01:22 AM
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If it's true that this alleged event is of a cyclical nature occuring every 3600 years, life on earth would have survived previous encounters with it on many occasions. It then leads to the question of how did life survive, so perhaps that would justify the hypothesis of the "survival challenge". It may be that location is the key and that, regardless of any efforts, we'd be doomed if we were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time, geographically speaking.



posted on Feb, 22 2008 @ 03:05 PM
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mikesingh,

You've proposed two scenarios:

1. This hypothetical (let's be frank here) BD is not connected in any way to out solar system gravitationally, and is headed on a collision course for our solar system.

2. This hypothetical BD is already part of our "binary" solar system, and therefore already connected gravitationally to our existing sun.

Which is it? It can't be both!

Let me take scenario #1 first...

There would be no way to predict that some random BD would be heading for our solar system as anyone with 1/2 a brain could tell you. It's a bit like saying that I could be walking down the street tomorrow and a bus is going to flatten me. Sure, it could happen, but what are the chances of that?

Lets suppose that you have some "inside info" or a prediction/prophecy that this might happen... then this thread should be moved to the skunk-works, since there is no actual evidence to suggest that something like this is going to happen. How can you predict that "we will have 2 suns in 5 years time"?

As for scenario #2...

A BD is a massive object by any standards, easily as large as gas-giant like Jupiter. If there was one, that was a part of our solar-system already, then we would see that by it's gravitational influence causing our existing sun to wobble! This is how we have managed to indirectly observe planets in solar systems other than our own. Don't you think that if we can measure such wobbles from so many light years away, we would be able to see it in our own star which is a mere 1 AU away????

I look forward to your response



posted on Feb, 22 2008 @ 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by mikesingh
reply to post by RuneSpider
 


Never mind the pain of repeating myself, but here it is again for your benefit. You asked why has the BD not been detected as yet?


Recently, researchers discovered what might be a brown dwarf wandering alone through space just 13 light-years from Earth -- practically in our backyard. And there might be many more, some even closer, researchers say. But they would be cooler, fainter and even tougher to spot with existing telescopes.
www.space.com...


The velocity of Brown dwarfs, like neutron stars could be well above 500 miles/sec. That means they could travel 15,768,000,000 per year or 78,840,000,000 miles in 5 years or approx 80,000,000,000 miles. Pluto is 3,000,000,000 miles away on the average.

That means at present, the BD is about 26 times the distance Pluto is from here. It may be extremely faint, emitting negligible IR/UV radiation. Is that probably the reason why it hasn’t been detected as yet? Perhaps detection is a matter of time. The question is not 'if' but 'when'!

And then, what if 'they' have already detected it with all the fancy gizmos at their disposal but chosen not to publicize it due to obvious reasons?

Beware! It may be heading toward the Solar System at a breathtaking 1,800,000 miles per hour!!

Seriously, a fairly large object traveling at that velocity, skimming our Solar System would be disastrous. And in 5 years time! That's 2012/2013!! Does that date ring a bell? You bet!!

Cheers!






[edit on 13-2-2008 by mikesingh]

If it's orbiting our sun then it would have to be going MUCH slower than that. At the speeds you're talking about it couldn't possibly have any relation to our solar system because at that distance 500 miles a second is WAY above escape velocity. It would scream past us one time, never to return. That certainly doesn't fit with the nemesis theories or the mayan predicition theories. If there is some kind of brown dwarf "nemesis" then it would already have to be inside the orbit of neptune to be here by 2012. We would have already spotted it a long time ago.



posted on Feb, 22 2008 @ 03:21 PM
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I'm trying to wrap my head around this 2012 stuff. Can someone recommend a single source on the web that wraps all of this up in a succint way? It seems like there are a bunch of theories out there.

At present I will say yay we finally reached the end of the Mayan calendar. Someone was going to be alive at that time and it will probably be a bunch of us. That is exciting.

I have heard Terrence mcKennas talk about 2012 and I can kind of see a global awakening happening. This internet is pretty great for that.

Zacahria Sitchin, while he may be very interested in the Summarians, has not presented his evidence to me in a way that proves anything to me. I think legends are wrapped in history are wrapped in myth. I think human history is very much older but I don't see how he gets and ET angle.

Hoagland- I don't know enough about this angle yet but I think he is onto to something in an accidental way. He isn't afraid of ridicule which frees his mind to really stretch.

anyway please help me get up to date in a quick way. Of course I will apply scientific and experiential experience to sift through any data.



posted on Feb, 23 2008 @ 01:23 AM
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Originally posted by C.H.U.D.
mikesingh,

You've proposed two scenarios:

1. This hypothetical BD is already part of our "binary" solar system, and therefore already connected gravitationally to our existing sun.

2. This hypothetical (let's be frank here) BD is not connected in any way to out solar system gravitationally, and is headed on a collision course for our solar system.


Which is it? It can't be both!

I look forward to your response


Ok, for starters, these are two scenarios put forward, ab initio. As you had very rightly mentioned, the idea of us being part of a binary system doesn't lend itself to scientific scrutiny.

Therefore, it's the second theory that is more relevent and possible. The dwarf star may be in no way connected with the celestial mechanics of our Solar System - at least not just yet!

In Nov 2000, an object with a mass lower than a tenth of a solar mass, was discovered at a distance of only 13 light years. An international team of astrophysicists, working in France, Spain and the United States, who discovered this object using the infrared survey named DENIS in the European Southern Observatory, and the Keck I telescope on Mauna Kea, on the Big Island of Hawaii, have named this new celestial body DENIS-P J104814.7-395606.1.

Astronomers Jean Guibert and Francoise Crifo, dug up three old pictures of the object, at the Observatory of Paris and found that it had moved considerably closer between 1975 and 1999 indicating that the object is closer than other stars in the images. They made the distance estimate of 13 light-years by relying on comparisons with objects that have similar characteristics.


Courtesy: Space.com


The Keck data demonstrated that this object must be a very nearby dwarf (cesium is not detected in giants), with a temperature of about 2200 K and a mass between 90 and 60 Jupiters. The lack of lithium implies that the mass must be larger than 60 Jupiter masses, but does not rule out that it could be a massive brown dwarf (the frontier between stars and brown dwarfs is at 75 Jupiter masses).


According to researchers, the brown dwarf has been discovered wandering alone through space just 13 light-years from Earth. Now a celestial object cannot be just "wandering around". It would be moving in one direction only untill acted upon by an external force to cause it to change direction. And it could be heading this way!

It has been seen that the object described above, is moving closer toward the Solar System. As per calculations, considering the velocity of the object, it is in the realm of possibility that it could 'skim' the Solar System in the not to distant future, with disasterous consequences. Maybe from even a light year away.

Have a nice day!


Ref:
www.space.com...
www.ifa.hawaii.edu...



[edit on 23-2-2008 by mikesingh]



posted on Feb, 23 2008 @ 06:33 AM
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Thanks for your reply mikesingh,


Originally posted by mikesingh
And it could be heading this way!


could being the operative word here! It also could have already had it's closest approach, and be heading away from us now. Nowhere in the references posted does it say it's actually heading towards us! There is certainly no mention of the possibility of it coming close enough to interfere with our solar system.




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