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We’ll Have Two Suns 5 years From Now! The Approaching Catastrophe?

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posted on Feb, 10 2008 @ 04:42 AM
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reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 


I don't think any chucklehead with a normal telescope would be able to detect this with any certainty just yet, given it's angle of incline. The best view would be in the South Pole (where Nasa have built the SPT South Pole Telescope to "study solar activity").

The original Washington Post 1983 article:

www.evpreversespeaking.com...




posted on Feb, 10 2008 @ 05:31 AM
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Also, if you had a periodic large body that swooped in through the system, wouldn't it tend to prevent really long-term stabilities? For example, I'd think all the tidally locked bodies you see would tend to be thrown off lock if a brown dwarf regularly plunged through the system


You are correct. That is why all of this talk about a brown dwarf or large planet on a 3600 year orbit that takes it through the asteroid belt is absolute nonsense. We would have ample evidence of its last passage through the inner Solar System. The fact that no such evidence exists should be enough to convince everyone, but sadly there are far too many people who simply refuse to believe the bleedin' obvious.


So this thing is heading right for us and gonna get to us in 2012?


No it isn't, because it doesn't exist.


There's always the small issue of how short period comets get dislodged from their places in the Oort cloud but perhaps it's just natural jostling by all the chunks of matter out there that causes it.


I think you mean long period comets. The vast majority of short period comets have been perturbed from the Edgeworth-Kuiper Belt, which is located just beyond the orbit of Neptune.


Okay, so if this is correct, our sun moves at around half a million miles an hour. That means it's moving around 25 times faster than our manmade probes do. So basically, the ground that the Voyager probes have covered thus far, the Sun can do it in less than a year.

Dandy. Now, I think the Voyager probes have covered around 7 billion miles of ground. That means in the 5 years it takes for 2012 to come, another star can zip in here from some 35 billion miles away? That's almost 8 times the distance from the Sun to Pluto!


You haven't thought about this properly, have you ? Since the Sun is also a star travelling around the galaxy, it is the relative velocities that count. Since each of these stars is orbiting the galactic centre in essentially the same direction (admittedly with different orbital inclinations and eccentricities), the relative velocity of most stars with respect to the Sun is much lower than their orbital velocities. So, any brown dwarf that happened to be on a collision course with Earth in 2012 would be a damn sight closer to the realm of the planets than you think.

In other words, it would be easily visible to Earth based telescopes RIGHT NOW !


(the brown dwarf) has already been reported as discovered


Rubbish. No such object has been discovered. Any websites or other sources that make such a claim are talking BS.


I have trouble believing that "the government" would be able to cover up something that would be readily apparent to any chucklehead with a telescope and a basic grasp of astronomy.


Exactly. There is no "cover up", simply because there is nothing to hide !


I don't think any chucklehead with a normal telescope would be able to detect this with any certainty just yet, given it's angle of incline


Are you aware that we can easily see the south celestial pole from Earth ? Are you also aware that any object larger than Jupiter would be visible decades before it actually arrived in the inner Solar System ?

Do you guys who believe in Nibiru/Marduk/Planet X actually know anything about basic astronomy and gravitational theory ?


[edit on 10-2-2008 by Mogget]

[edit on 10-2-2008 by Mogget]



posted on Feb, 10 2008 @ 06:27 AM
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reply to post by Mogget
 


Let's not forget Sedna was only discovered in late 2003, it's certainly not out of the realms of possibility that other celestial bodies exist without our current acknowledgement of them. While size may a play its part, as does distance, trajectory, diffusion, and countless other variables which may prevent us from an affirmative ground-based visual confirmation. It's impossible to refute absolutely that Nasa's 1983 find may well have been Planet X, and at the same time its impossible to prove it. What we have learned from Sedna and subsequent years that have passed is that we certainly have not mapped out our solar system as thoroughly as we once believed.



posted on Feb, 10 2008 @ 07:16 AM
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reply to post by Sys_Config
 


If it sucked up Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Saturn, Neptune, Uranus and Pluto, it would still be too small to ignite, but would probably put it in the Brown Dwarf catagory.



posted on Feb, 10 2008 @ 07:31 AM
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Originally posted by Mogget
That is why all of this talk about a brown dwarf or large planet on a 3600 year orbit that takes it through the asteroid belt is absolute nonsense. We would have ample evidence of its last passage through the inner Solar System. The fact that no such evidence exists should be enough to convince everyone, but sadly there are far too many people who simply refuse to believe the bleedin' obvious.


Well. it may not be a BD/large planet on a 3600 year orbit at all! So that's why there'd be no evidence. Have you heard of 'free floating planets'? Well, this could be one!

Having said that, let’s proceed to a BBC article about the ‘Mystery of free floating planets’….


A possible planet free-floating in Orion
Image: Science

Courtesy: BBC


Astronomers have discovered 18 planet-like objects, drifting through space in a part of the constellation of Orion. If they are planets, these "free floaters" will pose a challenge to theories about how planets form. "The formation of young, free-floating, planetary-mass objects like these are difficult to explain”, said Maria Rosa Zapatero Osorio, of the Instituto de Astrofísica de Canarias, in Tenerife, Spain.

Using visible and infrared light-detecting sensors on telescopes in Spain, the Canary Islands, and Hawaii, they found 18 objects whose relatively dim, reddish light suggested they could be planetary.
news.bbc.co.uk...


So no one seems sure as to what they are, and unable to explain how they float free. But could it be possible that one could be floating toward the Solar System?

Cheers!






[edit on 10-2-2008 by mikesingh]



posted on Feb, 11 2008 @ 03:30 AM
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If it is free floating, and not in a periodic orbit, how can its interaction with the solar system be "predicted" by a supposed early text?

And if it was in a periodic orbit of 3500 years or whatever the claim, we would have some kind of historical record, and archeological evidence for its presence.

Now i like left-field theories as much as anyone, but this simply doesnt make any sense.

Use your logic guys and think it through, even if you dont believe mainstream science there is just no evidene for this.



posted on Feb, 11 2008 @ 03:49 AM
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Originally posted by zvezdar
If it is free floating, and not in a periodic orbit, how can its interaction with the solar system be "predicted" by a supposed early text?


A free floater doesn't mean it's moving around like an autumn leaf in the evening breeze. It would be moving in one particular direction forever, until acted upon by an external force.

Now what if the ancients or whoever, had received this knowledge from an ET species who were well aware of a free floater heading toward the Solar System? Extremely far fetched but not impossible! Food for thought, what?

Cheers!



posted on Feb, 12 2008 @ 02:02 AM
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Originally posted by mikesingh

A free floater doesn't mean it's moving around like an autumn leaf in the evening breeze. It would be moving in one particular direction forever, until acted upon by an external force.

Now what if the ancients or whoever, had received this knowledge from an ET species who were well aware of a free floater heading toward the Solar System? Extremely far fetched but not impossible! Food for thought, what?

Cheers!


OK, i'll play by your rules


Agreed that a free floating object will travel in a particular direction until acted upon. So with that in agreement:

1) You are talking about a race that can project the exact movement of an object through space for millenia. This means, basically, being able to project the course of every object in the way of said object for many trillions of miles. You are talking about one hell of an advanced race


2) Given these beings were so advanced, why would they give that knowledge to a handful of our relatively primitive ancient people if they wanted to save us? If you were that advanced, wouldnt you build some kind of device that would stand the test of time and point out the impending disaster? I'd go with a big sign on the moon that lit up about now
Or come back closer to the date? Hell, wouldnt you just knock the offending planet onto another course??

Still sounds like i would stand a better chance of betting on a lightning strike hitting a precise point on Earth in 2012


[edit on 12-2-2008 by zvezdar]

[edit on 12-2-2008 by zvezdar]

[edit on 12-2-2008 by zvezdar]



posted on Feb, 12 2008 @ 02:45 AM
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Freedom Crows Nest
...origins of The Kolbrin can be traced back to a large collection of manuscripts salvaged from Glastonbury Abbey...transcribed on bronze tablets by...druids...fourteenth century, John Culdy, ...Scotland, owned The Kolbrin ...became known as The Bronzebook of Britain, and the contents of additional salvaged manuscripts known as The Coelbook were later incorporated into it to form the modern version...

As for the Brown Dwarf, could we calculate the orbit based on the geologic record of the pole shifts? Say every 250,000 years this dwarf comes ripping through on the perigee of it's highly eccentric orbit, it would be so small and dark and far out and moving almost dead on at us that it would easy to miss, possibly only detectable by Gravimetric scans or slight Planetary perturbations.

If there is ancient knowledge of the event that means there were survivors, and it is a survivable event...so lets get ready to ride this wave.

May you live in interesting times.



posted on Feb, 12 2008 @ 03:39 AM
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Originally posted by zvezdar
Agreed that a free floating object will travel in a particular direction until acted upon. So with that in agreement:

1) You are talking about a race that can project the exact movement of an object through space for millenia. This means, basically, being able to project the course of every object in the way of said object for many trillions of miles. You are talking about one hell of an advanced race


That's right! Considering the mind boggling distances between stars, it's possible that the planet could travel for millenia without encountering one! After all we're in the outer arm of the Milky Way where the density of stars is very, very low, few and far between.


2) Given these beings were so advanced, why would they give that knowledge to a handful of our relatively primitive ancient people if they wanted to save us?


Save us? Why on Earth would they think of doing that? Are we that important in their scheme of things? Probably not!


If you were that advanced, wouldnt you build some kind of device that would stand the test of time and point out the impending disaster?


No! Why the heck should I? I would think that the Earth is an unimportant, unremarkable outpost at the edge of the galaxy with nothing much to write home about! I'd be having more pressing engagements.

And talking of advanced civilizations, have you read/heard of Prof Michio Kaku? He proposes that there are Type 4 (and beyond) civilizations out there with technology that we'd consider as pure magic. We're not even a fraction of Type I as yet! A long long way still to go, unless we blow ourselves apart with nukes OR get clobbered by a free floating planet!!!

Cheers!



posted on Feb, 12 2008 @ 05:32 AM
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Originally posted by mikesingh

Save us? Why on Earth would they think of doing that? Are we that important in their scheme of things? Probably not!




No! Why the heck should I? I would think that the Earth is an unimportant, unremarkable outpost at the edge of the galaxy with nothing much to write home about! I'd be having more pressing engagements.


Given this, why the hypothesis about ancient civilisations being given warning about our impending doom? I happen to agree that we are unimportant, hence spelling out my thoughts in the manner i have. I dont see a reason why any advanced race would care about what happens to us, and give out any kind of information to Earth's inhabitants.

So perhaps it eliminates the 'floating' object theory? And we are back at a periodically orbiting object.


And talking of advanced civilizations, have you read/heard of Prof Michio Kaku? He proposes that there are Type 4 (and beyond) civilizations out there with technology that we'd consider as pure magic. We're not even a fraction of Type I as yet! A long long way still to go, unless we blow ourselves apart with nukes OR get clobbered by a free floating planet!!!

Cheers!



I've not read anything of his, no. That statement is fine with me, it certainly is possible that future technology would look like magic to us. After all, much of what we have would look like magic to ancient earth civilisations. No reason to think otherwise, really!

Not sure how he would come up with classifications for different technological levels, though...as we have no real idea of what is possible. If its just a convenient terminology then ignore what i've just said.

Cheers, i'm enjoying this little exchange


[edit on 12-2-2008 by zvezdar]

[edit on 12-2-2008 by zvezdar]


sty

posted on Feb, 12 2008 @ 06:04 AM
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reply to post by defcon5
 


it is not hard to "miss" a second sun if the sun is just a planet several times larget than Jupiter + orbiting at a large distance. However , we should be able to see it by now if a 2012 encounter is real.


sty

posted on Feb, 12 2008 @ 06:09 AM
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reply to post by Webmusher
 


yes, you are right. if we survived once we will make it again. The double-star system can be very complex, orbiting so close to each-other that sometime they even exchange mass - making the companion star to be "alive" for several days or even creating explosions. However, i am not aware of any astronomical data whosing 2 stars colliding together .



posted on Feb, 12 2008 @ 07:39 AM
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reply to post by zvezdar
 


Check out alien civilisation Types here... as per Dr Michio Kaku. There are other papers too on this which you can Google.

Cheers!



posted on Feb, 12 2008 @ 08:29 AM
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Originally posted by parry noid
Hmmm maybe Im wrong but I thought stars didn't move in any direction.... Only turnaround....


Ummm...your wrong. Everything is moving, supersonic speed. Check out thelivingmoon.com, Zorgon has a paper on there discussing how fast you are really going.



posted on Feb, 12 2008 @ 09:03 PM
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reply to post by mikesingh
 


Everytime your theory is shot down, you come up with a new one, but claim it's the original theory. What's your stake in this?



posted on Feb, 12 2008 @ 09:51 PM
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Originally posted by RuneSpider
reply to post by mikesingh
 


Everytime your theory is shot down, you come up with a new one, but claim it's the original theory. What's your stake in this?


Call me dumb, but I don't see what you're getting at! Can you elucidate? What new theory? And what stake??

Thanks!



posted on Feb, 12 2008 @ 10:01 PM
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reply to post by mikesingh
 

Someone knocked out the brown dwarf idea, you came up with a rogue planet. Someone challenged it, you said they travel in a straight line. Someone said, wait, that doesn't make sense. You said it was aliens. Someone challenged that, and I'm waiting for a good reply to that challenge. Apparently alines warned us.... but they didn't care about us anyway, right?



posted on Feb, 12 2008 @ 10:06 PM
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Originally posted by RuneSpider
reply to post by mikesingh
 

Someone knocked out the brown dwarf idea, you came up with a rogue planet. Someone challenged it, you said they travel in a straight line. Someone said, wait, that doesn't make sense. You said it was aliens. Someone challenged that, and I'm waiting for a good reply to that challenge. Apparently alines warned us.... but they didn't care about us anyway, right?


Is it too much to consider that the light being emitted is beyond our perceptive range? I mean, until i get my Elven Cloak of Seeing, i don't have infrared capability (yeah, lame D and D reference...i was a nerd as a child, too).

There are dozens of possibilities. The catch is that many are outside our field of reference. This means very little, however, as we are not likely to experience much on a universal scale during our brief life (or our brief civilization).



posted on Feb, 12 2008 @ 10:20 PM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


Well, seeing as how we have found brown dwarfs, then it is indeed possible to detect them. Since most objects of a size equal to, greater than, or slightly lesser than Jupiter would be noticeable upon entrance of the solar system, and since no one has reported siting of similar objects, i'm a bit against this theory.

[edit on 12-2-2008 by RuneSpider]



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