We’ll Have Two Suns 5 years From Now! The Approaching Catastrophe?

Apc, it depends on what size of "brown dwarf" is being considered. A small one would not necessarily emit anything much more than what we see out of Jupiter. Big ones would indeed be hot and emit other radiation as well, smaller ones are much harder to spot.

I'll concede that I would have expected us to have seen one, however. Needless to say, I expect alot of things off scientists and it does take them a while to admit to mistakes, which they do make alot of..

It all boils down to if someone was looking and looking in the right place. A small brown dwarf with nothing much more than a weak IR signature may have slipped though the net.

All I am saying is, I don't discount the theory because some scientists do.

Your point about the probe taking 13 months to Jupiter is good. But didn't they launch that when Jupiter was coming in for it's closest orbit to earth? Other probes have taken a bloody long time to get anywhere.

Cassini–Huygens, on it's way to Saturn, took 3 years to get to Jupiter and 7 years to Saturn. It all depends on what windows you have available and when you launch. Interplanetary/stellar objects move much quicker than anything we can cobble together.

Originally posted by stumason
The entire orbit of Hale-Bopp is 4000 years, but the tiny bit of space that is the solar system was not a problem for it. It takes our probes several years to get to Jupiter, just for comparison.

Speaking of comets, the fact that you have a lot of periodic comets with well-known orbits that haven't been changing would seem to cast doubt on some dark body closing in - I would think such large radius orbits of low-mass objects would be immediately disturbed by any new body.

Also, if you had a periodic large body that swooped in through the system, wouldn't it tend to prevent really long-term stabilities? For example, I'd think all the tidally locked bodies you see would tend to be thrown off lock if a brown dwarf regularly plunged through the system, and I'd also expect that collections of objects at various Lagrange points would have been scattered also, yet that hasn't happened.

edit: today, my grammar is more atrocious than normal for some unknown reason

[edit on 7-8-2007 by Tom Bedlam]

It takes our probes several years to get to Jupiter, just for comparison.


New Horizons took 9 hours to get to the Moon and only 13 months to get to Jupiter.

i didn't say that. but i hinted to the same idea and then corrected myself.

And I don't even think 1st grade has Science books...

mine did. here's a 1st grade textbook i found with some quick googling:
cgi.ebay.com...

Anyway if there's a brown dwarf within a few light years, I'm pretty sure it would have been noticed. They aren't dead hunks of rock. They are hot, active bodies that just don't have enough mass to sustain fusion. They can be seen in infrared, especially if they are close, and may flare x-rays.

If there's something a light year or two out, it would still be well outside our heliosphere. Perhaps it is what is causing the dent in the heliosphere, detected by the Voyager probes.

Either way, there is nothing to justify the speculation that this alleged body is in an orbit that threatens Earth. Certainly not a fictional "scripture".

this is all the same stuff (or similar) that was bouncing around in my head. in any case even if it took only 13 months to get to jupiter, saturn is double the distance from the sun. jupiter is something like 5au's and sarturn is around 10. so at that rate you're looking at 3 years to reach saturn and pushing a decade to hit pluto. i'd like to think we would have noticed any object that threatened our system especially an embered star so near.

Originally posted by Tom Bedlam
Speaking of comets, the fact that you have a lot of periodic comets with well-known orbits that haven't been changing would seem to cast doubt on some dark body closing in - I would think such large radius orbits of low-mass objects would be immediately disturbed by any new body.

Also, if you had a periodic large body that swooped in through the system, wouldn't it tend to prevent really long-term stabilities? For example, I'd think all the tidally locked bodies you see would tend to be thrown off lock if a brown dwarf regularly plunged through the system, and I'd also expect that collections of objects at various Lagrange points would have been scattered also, yet that hasn't happened.

You would think, yes.

But here is also the speculation about a large body (or several large bodies) passing through the Ort cloud sending the comets in this first place.

Also, how do we know that what we observe now, periodic comets wise, is what they should be? Even if the orbits had been changed, we wouldn't know, as ancients didn't really map the orbits of, say, Haley's Comet.

We do not know, for example, that the orbit of some "stable" periodic comets is the same as, say 10,000 years ago. We can guess, but we actually don't know with a degree of certainty. Most of what we "know" has been learnt in the past century or so. Not a huge amount of time on the cosmic scale. Things could have been different and we would not know the difference. It seems to me that we attribute a great deal of stability to what is otherwise a violent and chaotic environment.

Forgive me, I'm just playing devils advocate here.

Isn't this thing supposed to come through every 3500 years or so? I think there are some comets that have been documented well enough, probably by the Chinese, to be correlated to comets that still exist. At least that's what the back of my head is telling me, I didn't look it up.

At any rate, I wouldn't think you could collect stable debris clouds at the Lagrange points or re-lock the moon to the earth, mercury to the sun etc in 3500 years.

Not to mention the destruction it would cause - what's the odds of it missing every large body by enough that the orbits stay (mostly) in the plane of the ecliptic afterwards? After repeated passes? Without ever coming within the Roche limit of any other body?

As for the supposed Oort scatterer, isn't it predicted to be in a more or less normal ecliptic orbit, just out farther than Pluto?

Originally posted by laiguana
I have been telling everyone I know that Jupiter is going to blow up...and they all laugh at me...well we'll who'll be laughing in FIVE years....and -omg- in five years it will be 2012! holy hamsters!

wow this fits DK said the stars would have somthing to do with it and well jupiter will become another star? this is yet another outcome

Recently, researchers discovered what might be a brown dwarf wandering alone through space just 13 light-years from Earth -- practically in our backyard. And there might be many more, some even closer, researchers say. But they would be cooler, fainter and even tougher to spot with existing telescopes.
www.space.com...

The velocity of Brown dwarfs, like neutron stars could be well above 500 miles/sec. That means they could travel 15,768,000,000 per year or 78,840,000,000 miles in 5 years or approx 80,000,000,000 miles. Pluto is 3,000,000,000 miles away on the average.

That means at present, the BD is about 26 times the distance Pluto is from here. It may be extremely faint, emitting negligible IR/UV radiation. Is that probably the reason why it hasn’t been detected as yet? Perhaps detection is a matter of time. The question is not 'if' but 'when'!

Beware! It may be heading toward the Solar System at a breathtaking 1,800,000 miles per hour!! (A tad faster than my Ferrari, what? )

Seriously, a fairly large object traveling at that velocity, skimming our Solar System would be disastrous.



[edit on 8-8-2007 by mikesingh]

So this thing is heading right for us and gonna get to us in 2012? Alot of things are being said about that year for what ever reason :/ It's the end of the world and loads of things will happen in a year to destroy us

So this is deffinatly coming towards us?

What will happen whne it does pass?

[edit on 8-8-2007 by Spacedeck]

Originally posted by Spacedeck
So this is deffinatly coming towards us?

What will happen whne it does pass?

Whoaaaaa there

It's just theory and there are almost as many theories about 2012 as there are about 9/11. Everything from the beginning of an age of spiritual enlightenment to the coming of the antichrist and the end of the world due to a surprise visitor from the sky.

I'm backing the 'a year like any other' theory myself

So am I to understand this ....that the ancients that supposedly wrote about this second star and knew about the orbit of this said star(brown dwarf) were able to find this thing yet we with all of our giant telescopes and modern physics and scientist and space probes, etc, etc. can't find it? I mean these people were using candle light or torches for light.
How can you expect people to honestly take this serious. Not to mention this was really brought to the general public mainly by Zecharia Sitchin en.wikipedia.org...

I guess he knows more than all of the scientist and astronomers out there with his degree in economic history.

Originally posted by Spacedeck
What will happen when it does pass?

Get a taste of what would happen if even a small chunk of that BD hit the earth! Curtains, for short!

Darn! This vid is in Japanese. But when destruction comes, it knows no language!!



Have a nice day!

There's always the small issue of how short period comets get dislodged from their places in the Oort cloud but perhaps it's just natural jostling by all the chunks of matter out there that causes it. Perhaps earth's oceans are the product of some major comet impacts in the distant past so, in a way, we can look at them as being benefical.

It wouldn't take a sun or a planet to wreak havoc down here but what could you do about it even if you had advanced warning.

Originally posted by mikesingh

Originally posted by Spacedeck
What will happen when it does pass?

Get a taste of what would happen if even a small chunk of that BD hit the earth! Curtains, for short!

See! This is why I stopped watching Horizon lol - very interesting vid, although I'd quite like to know why Big Ben's mechanics where not melted by the intense heat . I think if a BD does hit, I'd rather get whacked by the whole thing and die instantly, rather than see a big wave of fire and such heading towards me...

Judging from what some folks have said, even if the text is fake isn't the idea still plausible?

Wow. Great vid mikesingh. Cheers

Sorry for my noobiness. I know if that happend we would go exstinct but wouldn't something that size hitting earth be able to knock it out of orbit?



[edit on 9-8-2007 by Spacedeck]

Originally posted by Pilgrum
A quick look at Muller's study of the periodicity of mass extinctions indicates that, if his hypothesis is correct, we're in for a long wait - like 14 million years give or take a few.

Does this mean I can now confidently make appointments for after 2012

If the second sun passes the Oort Cloud/Kuiper Belt in 2012 and gravitationaly nudges these still objects, I wouldn't be surprised if it takes 14 million years for them to reach us. We're billions of miles away from the Kuiper Belt, let alone the Oort Cloud. It's not like that if Nemesis/Nibiru does exist, the Earth would immediately be bombarded by asteroids and comets. It could take millions of years for these things to finally hit us...maybe even longer.

Originally posted by an0maly33
that means any object coming into our system from that outside would have to be traveling at incredible speed and would most certainly fly right past us at that speed. nothing in your theory of a 2nd sun holds up with even the slightest bit of logical thought.

Considering that stars rotate around their galaxy at millions of miles an hour, incredible speed is the only way to determine the motion of stars. Stars travel A LOT faster than anything we've ever sent out there! Our probes move at what, a measly 20,000 mph?

The Earth rotates on its axis at about 1,100 miles an hour, a motion that creates day and night.

The Earth orbits the sun at about 67,000 miles an hour, a motion that takes one year.

The sun circles the Milky Way at a speed of about 486,000 miles per hour.

www.chron.com...

Okay, so if this is correct, our sun moves at around half a million miles an hour. That means it's moving around 25 times faster than our manmade probes do. So basically, the ground that the Voyager probes have covered thus far, the Sun can do it in less than a year.

Dandy. Now, I think the Voyager probes have covered around 7 billion miles of ground. That means in the 5 years it takes for 2012 to come, another star can zip in here from some 35 billion miles away? That's almost 8 times the distance from the Sun to Pluto!

Oh, we got time

Just came across this thread on a google search, i'm sure this subject must have been continued elsewhere on the site which I'll investigate shortly but I wanted to add one piece of info missing from this thread:

In 1983 Nasa discovered Planet X using the IRAS infra-red telescope, as reported in The Washington Post on the front page of the December 31st 1983 edition with the headline reading "Mystery Heavenly Body Discovered". The object was said to be 50 Billion miles away from Earth. In 1992 another reporting of a similar, supposedly the same, object was made, now said to be 7+ billion miles away.

So a brown dwarf, far larger than jupiter, that we seem to have misplaced, that somehow will be zooming into our solar system in five years...

Hell, and you though a "ninja star" was a piece of thrown cutlery, didn't you?

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
So a brown dwarf, far larger than jupiter, that we seem to have misplaced, that somehow will be zooming into our solar system in five years...

Hell, and you though a "ninja star" was a piece of thrown cutlery, didn't you?

Not that it's been displaced, it's already been reported as discovered. The point is governments seem to have actively covered this up as the ramifications could be collosal on many aspects of society and belief systems. However, I tend to dismiss the fanatics who make statements tantamount to an "end of the world" conspiracy. If indeed this is a cyclical phenomenon then the last time it should have been seen is roughly 1400 - 1500 BC (according to the approx 3600 year cycle) and the human race has survived and flourished quite adequately since it's last alleged appearance. The point is, if this was a true phenomenon, it's environmental effect on the earth would be uncertain, and even if governments said it would have no effect, it would no doubt be a breeding ground for doomsayers potentially to the degree that it could cause societal mayhem.

reply to post by Gorguruga


I have trouble believing that "the government" would be able to cover up something that would be readily apparent to any chucklehead with a telescope and a basic grasp of astronomy.