Proof of chemtrails?

One proposed solution to the problem of global warming involves the seeding of the atmosphere with metallic particles. One technique proposed to seed the metallic particles was to add the tiny particles to the fuel of jet airliners, so that the particles would be emitted from the jet engine exhaust while the airliner was at its cruising altitude. While this method would increase the reflection of visible light incident from space, the metallic particles would trap the long wavelength blackbody radiation released from the earth. This could result in net increase in global warming.

...

Such materials can include the class of materials known as Welsbach materials. The oxides of metal, e.g., aluminum oxide, are also suitable for the purpose.

www.patentstorm.us...

[edit on 30-7-2007 by Colloneh7]

Originally posted by Kruel
Well that certainly sounds familiar... I had year-round cold symptoms when I lived in Arkansas, and we had plenty of that yellow stuff on everything. I just assumed it was pollen from the trees. I wasn't the only one who was effected by it either. Sometimes I'd be up all night coughing so hard that I'd cough blood. I'm glad I don't live there anymore.

Before making fun of me, maybe you should watch Aerosol Crimes, and do some research yourself. As of now, I am the one laughing at you.

But, here is a video specifically for you:

cuttingthroughthematrix.com...

A question to others, I see three planes leaving trails, but in front and between the two front ones, there is also another shape flying in the same direction at the same speed. What is it? Is it another plane at higher altitude, is it a flying disk (I don't call them UFO's as they are mainly no longer Unidentified) or something else? My vision is not 20/20, and I don't have great software to zoom into infinity etc. so other peoples findings will be greatly appreciated.

Originally posted by Nextstep
A question to others, I see three planes leaving trails, but in front and between the two front ones, there is also another shape flying in the same direction at the same speed. What is it? Is it another plane at higher altitude, is it a flying disk (I don't call them UFO's as they are mainly no longer Unidentified) or something else? My vision is not 20/20, and I don't have great software to zoom into infinity etc. so other peoples findings will be greatly appreciated.

It appears to be the lead plane in a 3 plane V formation. If you watch the video, at the beginning you can see 3 chemtrails, and then one of them stops. As the camera zooms in, you see the 3 planes but only 2 chemtrails, and the plane in the middle has no chemtrail or contrail. Hope that helps.

Gotcha, thanks Colloneh7!

Originally posted by shrunkensimon
Your not going to get any proof just by asking our officials, because they will lie to your face, unless everyone gets up in arms about it and pressures them. There is just too much riding within the chemtrail program for them to acknowledge it to a bunch of nosey conspiracy theorists. ....

Unfortunately the "officials" have been pressured by "us" before but then it seems that there are others who seem to have more of an influence on these officials when "they" apply pressure of their own, if this statement below is true.

Chemtrails are controversial. Investigators have collected samples of chemtrails for analysis, which U.S. government agencies such as the EPA have refused to test. James told us that a member of U.S. Congress recently tried opening an investigation of them, and was advised by a high-ranking military official that if she valued her career and her family’s health, she should cease her investigation (which she did). If chemtrails are a genuine covert action phenomenon, I doubt the motivation behind chemtrails is benevolent. The military and related attention to the Mount Adams area likely has nothing to do with the “threat” that UFOs pose to humanity, but the “threat” that they pose to the world’s power structure. All the attacks and other games are most likely not to keep humans safe from ETs, but to keep ETs from openly interacting with humans, in alignment with the Brookings Institute’s advice to NASA many years ago. James has endured great harassment from the people trying to remove UFOs from public awareness.

source

The Aerosol Crimes video points out some interesting facts regarding how natural contrails do not last hours on end in the sky but how a chemtrail would, so if miles and miles of long vapor was made by a plane then what is "in" that vapor? Surely it can't just be water.

Just like skywriters have to add "oil" or "other material" to their planes exhaust vapors to form the "smoke" in the sky while writing messages other wise those water vapors wouldn't last long enough for all to see the message in the sky. This US Patent on Aerial message systems explains.

A lot of people talk about the "chemtrails" being used to fight global warming or to spray people and purposely get them sick but I tend to think these ideas are possible smoke screens (pun intended) that the Government's like to humor with the public. It seems to me that maybe the reason for chemtrails is to spray the atmosphere because "Aliens" are sensitive to these chemicals and with these in the air "they" tend to not enter closely to Earth's ground levels. So maybe chemtrails are actually a type of safe-guard or type of shielding placed around to help resist "visitors" from landing. Just another theory/idea.

Just my thoughts,
Bzzzzzzz

Great find OP.

Funny that no one cared to make mention of the orb that is racing in front of the jets spraying.

I whitnesses something of that sort while golfing last year. A plane spraying, and an orb appearing out of the blur but right behind the plane.

Regardless this is a great find. Nice post

I dismiss chemtrails because they serve no practical purpose.

If you wanted to introduce an element or drug to the population on a national scale its far easier to put it in the water supplies, than try and rely on aircraft, prevailing wind patterns, the jetstream and temperature inversions.

As for the "contrails don't last for hours" argument, I beg to differ. They can last an awfully long time, and I can prove it. How? Well the simple fact is that contrails are caused by water condensing because of the heat of the engine in cooler temperatures. Now think on to basic science and tell me what else is made up of water vapour that is condensed? You got it. Clouds. Arguing that a contrail can't last is like arguing that it never gets cloudy.

As for the aluminium theory - well to be frank if people were ingesting that much the health problems would be racking up severly by now. People talked about chemtrails at least 10 years ago, so we're looking at nearly half a generation of ingestion. Couple that with crop testing for elements that may prove harmful, which would have identified mass traces of aluminium particles and you are then talking about.

Quite simply the whole chemtrail paranoia thing comes - in my opinion - from bad science, people refusing to understand the physics of it all and making assumptions about things they clearly have no, or very little knowledge about. They look up and see lines in the sky and automatically assume the sky is falling on their head and it isn't.

And yes, I am aware that official cloud seeding programmes are carried out for weather research purposes, but to suggest that the governments of the world are trying to spray us all to death or into submission is - to me at least - absurd.

Originally posted by neformore
I dismiss chemtrails because they serve no practical purpose.

Quite simply the whole chemtrail paranoia thing comes - in my opinion - from bad science, people refusing to understand the physics of it all and making assumptions about things they clearly have no, or very little knowledge about. They look up and see lines in the sky and automatically assume the sky is falling on their head and it isn't.

but you seem to be doing that very thing neformore! the way you talk about chemtrails, it is clear to me that you yourself have done very little research on them.

THEY DO serve a pratical purpose FOR THEM. I'll break it down to this -

Chemical weapons labs, coal power plants, etc have created massive problems with our ozone. so much so that THEY have caused the ozone layer to break down - authorities quickly blame CFCs for this - but this is wrong.

we are accordingly exposed to UV rays on levels which far exceed the safe limits. Hence, we find but ONE reason for chemtrails - to seed the sky with certain chemicals which act as a virtual shade umbrella for us all - keeping the harmful UV rays away from us. but the prob is that the chemicals used have such terrible side effects on us all!

Start to study the WHENS of chemtrails and not just the whys. i have been doing this and noticed that the Chemtrails were almost non-existent during winter here in Australia. but as soon as the sun started getting warmer and more intense again, i started noticing that the spraying was back. So ONE reason they spray is to 'protect' us from harmful UV.

why dont they admit it? because they would have to explain EXACTLY what was the REAL cause of ozone depletion - blowing the lid on oh so many secret projects.

for more info on this check out Chemtrails: Hiding Environmental Toxins and Suppressing Immune Systems by Jim Phelps www.doewatch.com...

i have found this to be the best source on chemtrails and what he says really does add up and make sense.

I cant link up the full document because it is in a website which you need subscription for. But if anyone is interested in reading it (its only about 13 pages from memory), just let me know and i will gladly email it to you

Originally posted by Nextstep
Gotcha, thanks Colloneh7!

No problem. Glad I could help.


Here is a couple of more websites on chemtrails:

www.carnicom.com...

www.chemtrailcentral.com...

A quick 2 min video:



Make sure you also see Aerosol Crimes.
(sorry to repeat myself, but it seems as though some people posting this thread have yet to see it?)

[edit on 31-7-2007 by Colloneh7]

Originally posted by Colloneh7

One proposed solution to the problem of global warming involves the seeding of the atmosphere with metallic particles.

Yes. However, for this to be effective it would need to be done on a massive scale, there would be no reason for secrecy, and it would have be be carried out at an altitude at which persistent contrails will not form, otherwise it's counter-productive - persistent contrails add to global warming.

So, we'd know all about it and we wouldn't see any visible signs of it being done.

Meanwhile, it never ceases to amaze me how many people believe in chemtrails without having any knowledge of persistent contrails nor the efforts being carried out around the world to better understand their impact on climate and ways of reducing them. But maybe there's a reason for that? Maybe the info in the following links is what the chemtrail believers don't want you to know:-

www.epa.gov...
www.grida.no...
www.ozone-sec.ch.cam.ac.uk...
www-pm.larc.nasa.gov...

After all, if you knew the truth, you just might start thinking the chemtrail believers were a bit silly


(Note: I do not exclude the possiblity that some limited scale chmeical spraying of populated areas may have been carried out in the past by the military, and may even still be carried out. However, such spraying would be at low level - it would not result in the formation of high level cirrus clouds as chemtrailers claim )


[edit on 31-7-2007 by Essan]

Originally posted by Essan

Originally posted by Colloneh7

One proposed solution to the problem of global warming involves the seeding of the atmosphere with metallic particles.

Yes. However, for this to be effective it would need to be done on a massive scale, there would be no reason for secrecy, and it would have be be carried out at an altitude at which persistent contrails will not form, otherwise it's counter-productive - persistent contrails add to global warming.

So, we'd know all about it and we wouldn't see any visible signs of it being done.

Are you seriously arguing with a patent that spells it out for you? And can you please source your information because I'm just not gonna take YOUR word for it. Also, how do you explain planes flying in the same vacinity where one plane has a normal contrail and another plane has a chemtrail???? Take, oh I don't, THE FIRST VIDEO IN THIS THREAD!?!?!?!

Here is the full context of what I quoted from the patent as well as the link to the patent:

One proposed solution to the problem of global warming involves the seeding of the atmosphere with metallic particles. One technique proposed to seed the metallic particles was to add the tiny particles to the fuel of jet airliners, so that the particles would be emitted from the jet engine exhaust while the airliner was at its cruising altitude. While this method would increase the reflection of visible light incident from space, the metallic particles would trap the long wavelength blackbody radiation released from the earth. This could result in net increase in global warming.

...

Such materials can include the class of materials known as Welsbach materials. The oxides of metal, e.g., aluminum oxide, are also suitable for the purpose.

www.patentstorm.us...

Meanwhile, it never ceases to amaze me how many people believe in chemtrails without having any knowledge of persistent contrails nor the efforts being carried out around the world to better understand their impact on climate and ways of reducing them. But maybe there's a reason for that? Maybe the info in the following links is what the chemtrail believers don't want you to know:-

www.epa.gov...
www.grida.no...
www.ozone-sec.ch.cam.ac.uk...
www-pm.larc.nasa.gov...

Thanks for the links, but each one that mentions "persistant contrails" also mentions that it takes metal particles to form these which is consistant with the patent I quoted. Also, I am certain that they are studying these "persistant contrails" as it pertains to global warming which only makes sense and is again consistant with the patent I quoted.

After all, if you knew the truth, you just might start thinking the chemtrail believers were a bit silly

I think you are a bit silly, and I don't appreciate you calling me silly since you are the one who has not done their research.

(Note: I do not exclude the possiblity that some limited scale chmeical spraying of populated areas may have been carried out in the past by the military, and may even still be carried out. However, such spraying would be at low level - it would not result in the formation of high level cirrus clouds as chemtrailers claim

)

Nice little disclaimer after you just got done insulting my intelligence. You can keep your disclaimer and learn to source your information.

"Persistant Contrails"..

Please... you can't use that excuse and expect everyone to buy it. Certainly not me, because i have witnessed chemtrail spraying for myself, and for me its undeniable. Sure, you mite not buy it, but i have no problems with accepting that our governments etc would do stuff behind our back, but in plane site.


Even my mum knows how to spot them now. She wouldn't believe it at first, but when the right time came around (multiple planes in the sky at once), i could point out how most leave a contrail, but some leave a residual chemtrail. She doesn't believe the implications of chemtrails, but accepts they are there at least!

Originally posted by Colloneh7

Are you seriously arguing with a patent that spells it out for you?

No, just pointing out to those less informed the practicalities of how it would work in reality. Of course, the existence of a patent does not prove that it works, nor that such an idea has ever been carried out. Can you show that it does or has?

And can you please source your information

EPA, IPCC, MoD, NASA (per the links I posted) - and any decent meteorological book you care to look up.

Also, how do you explain planes flying in the same vacinity where one plane has a normal contrail and another plane has a chemtrail????

Different altitudes - you do know that temperature and moisture content can vary considerably over just a few hundred feet, for example?

Take, oh I don't, THE FIRST VIDEO IN THIS THREAD!?!?!?!

Which IMO may already have been adequately explained as a mid air refuelling operation - although other military maneuvers in which aircraft flying in close proximity then break away, one rising or another dropping, could equally explain what is seen. There's certainly no need to introduce implausible spraying operations.

Thanks for the links, but each one that mentions "persistant contrails" also mentions that it takes metal particles to form these

Yes, insofar as jet engines like all combustion engines produce pollutants (your car emits metal particles too) and ice particles can form around these emissions.

However, you're still missing the point - the aim is to find a way of reducing these, not increasing them. Although if such pollutants could be emitted without ice particles subsequently forming I suppose it might aid 'global dimming' ..... Sadly that doesn't happen though - as all these reports of persistent contrails testify. Though as I started off by explaining, if you could drop these pollutants at such an altitude (which will vary according to atmospheric conditions) that they wouldn't form clouds it might work, as described in the aforementioned patent.

(I doubt you'll find many serious climatologists advocating such an idea though.)

which is consistent with the patent I quoted.

No, inconsistent - once you've formed ice particles any cooling effect is negated by the fact these ice particles are causing warming - as shown by the Minnis paper. That's the whole point! Persistent contrails contribute to global warming! So if persistent contrails are really deliberately produced 'chemtrails' then they're being done - without hardly anyone's knowledge, least of all those studying them - in order to cause more global warming.

Also, I am certain that they are studying these "persistant contrails" as it pertains to global warming which only makes sense and is again consistant with the patent I quoted.

So the fact that persistent contrails alone could explain all the observed atmospheric warming over the USA is consistent with a patent for reducing warming ........ ?

I think you are a bit silly, and I don't appreciate you calling me silly since you are the one who has not done their research.

I've not called anyone silly However I have pointed out that some people might think you are silly if they knew more about science behind contrail formation etc

Nice little disclaimer after you just got done insulting my intelligence.

Why thank you. Just acknowledging that I don't know everything. I can't say that chemical spraying doesn't happen. I can say that what many people take as evidence of such spraying is in fact nothing of the sort.

Originally posted by Essan

Yes. However, for this to be effective it would need to be done on a massive scale, there would be no reason for secrecy, and it would have be be carried out at an altitude at which persistent contrails will not form, otherwise it's counter-productive - persistent contrails add to global warming.

So, we'd know all about it and we wouldn't see any visible signs of it being done.

Essan, if you want to know the potential reasons behind the secrecy PLEASE read the little 12 pg document by Jim Phelps www.doewatch.com and that outlines exactly why the spraying program is hidden... I cant quote it because i cant really break it down into nice little quotes - it would be way too long. but i can email it to you.

Essentially it involves spraying almuminium to prevent and reflect UV rays exposure, and also using titanium-dioxide and barium-oxide to absorb and block UV rays.

HOwever chemtrails are also used against mass fluoride build-up which has entered our environment through chemical weapons plants, coal power plants and nuclear testing sites. Fluoride is a major problem, infecting our food and water supply. The titanium-dioxide is sprayed with the chemtrails to block the onset of flourosis.

THis is an EXTREMELY simplifed version of what Phelps discusses in the 12 page document i'm referring to. THe government cant let on about chemtrail sprying because then they would have to admit THEY were the ones who caused the holes in the ozone layer and they would have to disclose the major flouride problems seen in the world today.

For the record, Jim Phelps is the inventor of HAARP and the Star Wars weapons program, he also discovered zero-point or scalar energy systems - so he knows his stuff. at least this is what it says in the article.

Whether anyone chooses to believe the article or not is up to them, but at the very least it makes good read.

Originally posted by BuzzingOn
The Aerosol Crimes video points out some interesting facts regarding how natural contrails do not last hours on end in the sky...

I'm not sure that's the case.

www.sciencedaily.com...

Contrails generally last one to two hours, but can last as long as six

news.bbc.co.uk...

"We know from satellite imagery that clusters of contrails can last for two days. If carried by the upper jet stream through the troposphere, they can travel hundreds of kilometres."

'Worse is when the contrails last for hours.'

ok - here a few pics i have taken over the last few months which show chemtrails in Sydney.

First i want to highlight the obvious difference between a contrail and a chemtrail - notice how the contrail dissapates very quickly and then notice how the chemtrail expands and lingers.

First pic: contrail
Second pic: chemtrail




Third pic: obvious chemtrail close-up - Contrails NEVER look like this.



Fourth pic: Rainbow cloud caused by barium in the atmosphere - how does a contrail do this? (I also have a clip of this cloud moving independently to the clouds around it)



Fifth pic: A large chemtrail over Sydney intersecting with a previously laid chemtrail which has started to dissipate.



Sixth pic: A just-sprayed chemtrail over Darling Harbour, Sydney.
Seventh pic: A close-up of previous chemtrail, obviously not behaving as a standard contrail would.





NB: i cant work out how to get the image to simply show up as a link (so it doesnt take up so much space) - if someone knows please tell me and i will edit accordingly

Sorry but I have to laugh

ALL of those pictures are contrails.

The one showing "barium in the atmosphere" - please, tell me how you figure that out? Did you undertake a full chemical analysis at the exact place in the sky where you claim it to be?

All I see is light refraction through water vapour. Ever heard of sundogs?

All this nonsense about "persistant contrails" - study some meteorology.

Learn about temperatures and condensation. Then study some thermodynamics, and find out the average temperature of the exhaust of a jet engine that can form condensates and then ice crystals. From it you can figure out that in some cases even a one or two degree warming of the air can cause a persistent cloud.

People seem to think the atmosphere is one stable layer. Its not. Its fluidic, it splits into many differing layers of temperature and windpseed, and despite what you may think its very very cold at altitude.

The main products of hydrocarbon fuel combustion are carbon dioxide and water vapor. At high altitudes this water vapor emerges into a cold environment, and the local increase in water vapor can push the water content of the air past saturation point. The vapor then condenses into tiny water droplets and/or desublimates into ice. These millions of tiny water droplets and/or ice crystals form the contrails. The energy drop (and therefore, time and distance) the vapor needs to condense accounts for the contrail forming some way behind the aircraft's engines. The majority of the cloud content comes from water trapped in the surrounding air.[citation needed] At high altitudes, supercooled water vapor requires a trigger to encourage desublimation. The exhaust particles in the aircraft's exhaust act as this trigger, causing the trapped vapor to rapidly turn to ice crystals. Exhaust contrails usually occur at above 26,000 feet. where the temperature is below -40°C (-40°F).[1]

Taken from Contrails

this is no hoax, I witness this every day at different parts of the sky, almost as if they are attempting to have the whole grounds covered. I will attempt take a video myself, and take pictures, its ridiculous how many different jets fly overhead spraying this on and off. I have rid in a jet before, this was not a byproduct of either A)the afterburners or B)Regular flight. It is like that of a crop duster but much denser and more of it! Why do people choose to disbelieve, when this is happening all the time!?

Originally posted by srsen

First i want to highlight the obvious difference between a contrail and a chemtrail - notice how the contrail dissapates very quickly and then notice how the chemtrail expands and lingers.

So you're say that meteorological science is wrong are you?

Originally posted by parry noidWhy do people choose to disbelieve, when this is happening all the time!?

Because we've actually studied the subject? Not the chemtrail theories peddled by disinformation agents, but that actual (fairly simple) science behind cloud formation.