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World owes U.S. a debt, says Brown

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posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 05:20 PM
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the sardonic nature of Um-Gazz`s post is so obvious , can you not see it?




posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 05:25 PM
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Originally posted by shrunkensimon
By the way, does anyone else find Browns facial expression really funny? The one where he finishes a long sentance and is forced to draw air in.. or is just me lol?


I find him not a natural public speaker, but he seems to do ok. You would think that politicians would be taught how to address the public, and how to do speeches.

Does he mean that the world will pay of the usa national debt, or something, lol, i am only joking before someone starts

[edit on 7/29/2007 by andy1033]



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 06:13 PM
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Huh?? WTF!! Brown SHUTUP you fool!!!

The USA is losing the war on terror because off their own actions:

The Taliban arent defeated because they fled towards a border nation they setted up in Pakistan...

Al Qaeda is stronger then before the war on terror started...

Iraq is a mess and after the US leaves there then a pro Iran goverment will be installed by the Shiite majority who then splits the country so that the Sunni`s dont get a thing resulting in a mass civil war.

Iran beefing up with High tech arms and supporting the terroristical groups like Hezbollah who won the recent war with Israel on a moral way.

The 3/11 and 7/7 attacks happend because off the US their non brainer wars...


Clearly the US makes a mess off it because off one sided tactics and strategy`s soley based on violence and fighting instead off tackeling the real problems off why people deceide to become terrorists...

One off the biggest motivations for them is the Israely occupying off the westbank and iff you solve the Israely/Palistina question then you remove on off the pillars off terrorism...

on the long run the USA is losing this battle and unfortunaly they do not seem to have the brains to know there are more ways to rome then the ever increasing use off violence..............

Cheers all



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 06:53 PM
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Please forward all international war debt payments to:

1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW Washington, DC 20500.

If you do not wish to openly support this war, but wish to pay the debt, simply label your country's payment "U.S. International Debt Relief Fund"

All payments will be distributed among government agencies, and private war contractors accordingly.

Thank you for your support!



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 07:00 PM
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Originally posted by UM_Gazz

Originally posted by jimbo999
Errmmm...I think (well...know) that Brown means a 'debt of gratitude' in this quote. He does NOT mean money - honestly.


You may be quite right, but then that would mean that you completely missed the points I was attempting to make here.

Think again, perhaps you'll get it.



I did
And it still seems to be all about money...

J.



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 07:07 PM
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If anything the US have helped inspire international terrorism over the past few years. The way they've messed about in the Middle East and Iraq has been the equivalent of poking a stick viciously and repeatedly into a wasps nest.

And let's not forget, across the globe, from Central Ameria to the mountains of Afghanistan, the US funded numerous terrorist groups and puppet leaders who later became terrorists - Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein being the most apt examples.

On an international terrorism level the world is a vastly unsafer place now than it was 10 years ago - almost wholly because of the US.

The most sickening thing about the current situation in Britain is the way the Government have swallowed US paranoia regarding terrorism. For decades we were at war with the IRA (again, an organisation heavily funded by Americans. According to terrorism experts the IRA would have capitulated sometime around 1972 had they not had US financial backing from Noraid). They bought death and mayhem to British streets on a fairly regular basis - their Christmas bombing campaigns of city centres and shopping malls being a favourite. And we as a nation didn't bend one single inch for them, or show any fear, and eventually they were forced to give up.

Now we have a government who seem to have forgotten every lesson we learned regarding terrorism over the past 50 years, and is busy removing so many civil liberties and imposing so many restrictions - more now than even during World War 2 - that the terrorists may already as well have won. Psychologically they now have a definite advantage because of that paranoid attitude.

It's not the world that owes America a debt in the fight against terrorism, it's America owes the world one big-assed apology for throwing petrol on the fire.



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 07:08 PM
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This is Just BS from brown
why the feck should the world ow the US a debt of gratitude?

or is to thank the country for creating (help) the worlds most dangrous terrorist group?

or is it to thank the US for arming countries against each other?

the world ows the US nothing. the US ows the world alot
just for standing by and letting the US fudge world stability up



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 07:37 PM
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Originally posted by sbardca1
If anything the US have helped inspire international terrorism over the past few years.


The past Few years? How 'bout the past Many years?

In my opinion, the Only thing the World owes the US is a swift kick in the backside ... a reminder to get back to her Original ideals, if you will.

How the hell does a single nation and or government Ever ensconce themselves with the curerent and seeming self-imposed Right to spread Their thoughts or beliefs abroad? Honestly.

Willing participants, obliging neighbors, and or nationalistic Requests are one thing, BUT ... forcibly spreading one's thoughts and or desires/ideals on the World as a whole is an Entirely different ballgame. (?)

Unfortunately the corporate lobbyists feel otherwise, and it would seem that they "hold the upper hand" in today's day and age ... actually, in the Not so recent past as well.


? Spreading Democracy ? ... whilst trying to portray and or uphold the values and ideals of a Democratic Republic. (?)

PLEASE
?

p.s.
I love this nation and the people therein, but ...
Can I have my quarter back?


 



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 07:46 PM
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Originally posted by Fifth_Column
The real reason that Dr Brown from Scotland brings this message to Bush, is that Bush is Totally Debt Ridden (Bankrupt) and has asked Dr Brown to bring some Money from the Queen Mothers Bank. What Dr Brown, does not say is that the Queen told him to relay a message to Bush : Next Time beware before being Duped by Us. ( Niger Cake )


sorry for the long quote but what in the name of god was your post about.

I see no reason why the UK should align itself with this administration. if i were brown i would tell bush to shove it and send a msg to the American people that we want to start building a fresh alliance, but only when the bush idiot has gone.

The only reason Brown has gone out of his way to express a strengthened unity it because the sh*t is going to hit the fan in a massive way before the bush administration goes , if ever.




posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 07:48 PM
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Originally posted by UM_Gazz
This is great news, if the world owes the U.S. a debt for this war on terrorism, let them pay the debt.

Not only everything you suggested, but let all of those nations that we've "bailed out" with huge loans (that have all inevitably defaulted) pay back what they owe, perhaps even throw in a little something extra for all of the humanitarian aid we've sent all over the world...
Then there's also all the times the US stepped in with money & manpower when nations suffered natural disasters (such as floods, earthquakes & the really nasty storms), when there hasn't been another single nation to help the US when we've suffered from such disasters...

Yeah, the world owes a lot to the US...And has owed us a lot for at least the past hundred years.


Originally posted by johnsky
It will take a long history of war and suffering before they will smarten up. Until then, we just have to make sure they don't do any damage to the free world.

Too late...The Government already has a lit match hovering under the Constitution, the Supreme Law of the Land & the primary insurance of individual freedom in the country. Take heart in the fact that the PUblic is waking up (finally) to those shenanigans & People are making progress against the past hundred years of subtle corruption. Rome wan't built in a day (even though it burned in about a day
) & we're still a pretty young country, so please give us a little more time to straighten ourselves out...



Originally posted by UM_Gazz
Then by all means, let the international community also help pay any debts owed the British as well for their role in this war.

I'll at least give the BBC credit for praising the US...Their "humble pie" approach has been duly noted by at least this US Citizen & I agree with you about the UK's contribution in this whole mess. I think the BBC should have mentioned the UK, considering that's it's home origin, after all.



Originally posted by Fett Pinkus

Originally posted by UM_Gazz
Then take the total figure, and divide that up between all nations, and let them pay their portion of the debt to the United States!

I hope that you were being ironic there

Noone else wanted to go there so put up with it. The Uk and US leaders lied all the way about having to invade Iraq so now deal with it

Well, yes, Gazzs' suggestion may be a bit excessive...I'd settle for the costs to be equally split among the nations that have been affected by terrorism over the past few thousand years that they've been in the business of terrorizing the rest of world...

As for the part about the respective Governments lying about it?...Has there ever really been any Government in the whole of human civilization that hasn't lied to its people? According to my historical studies, I'd have to answer that with a "Not only No, but a Hell, No."

And before anyone decides to come down on my post as written so far, I've been addressing the topic as far as Gazz had presented it. My own personal views on the US Government (in general), Bully Boy Bush & His Corporate Crony Gang (in particular) & the whole corporate mess over the past hundred years that lured our Government away from the Constitution has been (very) frequently posted in pretty much everywhere all over the ATS forums. In short, my postings pretty much mirror what 12m8eall2c just posted.



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 08:07 PM
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A war against terrorism, if you can even wage such a war should not be with violence. That only provokes more violence and eventually increases terror. A war against terrorism should be 'fought' by making friends, allies and by being the good guy and setting an example. Who in their right mind would label someone as an enemy if they'd be friendly. Help build schools, help the medical system, help in the most basic human ways. That way the amount of enemies and terrorism would shrink away.
If you need to take action against very dangerous groups wouldn't it be best with the support of the locals in police action rather than in military style?
By responding with violence US has already lost the war.



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 08:11 PM
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It is refreshing to see some actually "get it"


Some questions...

This war has cost the United States what exactly? (answer if you dare)

Ultimately, what Brown said was perhaps a bit ignorant, but what more can one expect from politicians?

The debt the world owes the United States of America is?



[edit on 29-7-2007 by UM_Gazz]



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 08:22 PM
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there are a lot of terrorists in the world, it wouldn't exactly make up the entire world now, would it?

anyway, if he wants to waste his time and breathe by saying people "owe" the United States for the War on Terror, then he's pathetic



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by UM_Gazz
If the threat of Islamic terrorism is truly an international concern, and the U.S. is playing the lead role in eliminating this threat, and bearing the majority of cost, then indeed the world seems to owe the U.S. a debt, if it is only a debt of gratitude, then that would hardly suffice.

This war has cost the United States more financially than any other country, if the war on terrorism threatens international security and peace, then why should the U.S. pay for the majority of it, in all aspects?

There are private contractors, most of which are owned and operated by U.S. companies, and their contracts are very costly and lucrative. If this war is a "business venture" as well as a means of protecting the vital security interests of the world, then let the world share in paying for it.

Let all nations share in the debt, let all nations wash the blood from their hands as well.

If it were merely a war of words, then a thank you would be nice, but a war that costs trillions requires more than mere words.



What goes around comes around.
Germany had the R.A.F, the UK the I.R.A, Spain E.T.A, every country had its own terrorism or freedom fighters, Spain did not had to go to Iraq and they certainly not deserved the attacks on 11-3-2004. You dont negotiate with the actual terrorist but you shouldnt be involved in the first place.In Holland we had terrorist murders but i dont seem to recall some foreign country could have helped in us in a certain "climate" in which such murders take place..Not all examples are the same but like Europe had its decolonization, the US had been #ing around in countries as Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan south/middle america since the early fifties replacing democratic chosen leaders by dictators and so on, now the ball comes back..and the rest of the world is not going to pay those [war] debts any longer..

[edit on 29-7-2007 by Foppezao]



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 08:59 PM
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Islamic Terror attacks against US Targets or that Cause US Deaths 1973-2007

1979

Nov. 4, Tehran, Iran: Iranian radical students seized the U.S. embassy, taking 66 hostages. 14 were later released. The remaining 52 were freed after 444 days on the day of President Reagan's inauguration.

1982-1981

Lebanon: Thirty US and other Western hostages kidnapped in Lebanon by Hezbollah. Some were killed, some died in captivity, and some were eventually released. Terry Anderson was held for 2,454 days.

1983

April 18, Beirut, Lebanon: U.S. embassy destroyed in suicide car-bomb attack; 63 dead, including 17 Americans. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Oct. 23, Beirut, Lebanon: Shiite suicide bombers exploded truck near U.S. military barracks at Beirut airport, killing 241 marines. Minutes later a second bomb killed 58 French paratroopers in their barracks in West Beirut.
Dec. 12, Kuwait City, Kuwait: Shiite truck bombers attacked the U.S. embassy and other targets, killing 5 and injuring 80.

1984

Sept. 20, east Beirut, Lebanon: truck bomb exploded outside the U.S. embassy annex, killing 24, including 2 U.S. military.
Dec. 3, Beirut, Lebanon: Kuwait Airways Flight 221, from Kuwait to Pakistan, hijacked and diverted to Tehran. 2 Americans killed.

1985

April 12, Madrid, Spain: Bombing at restaurant frequented by U.S. soldiers, killed 18 Spaniards and injured 82.
June 14, Beirut, Lebanon: TWA Flight 847 en route from Athens to Rome hijacked to Beirut by Hezbollah terrorists and held for 17 days. A U.S. Navy diver executed.
Oct. 7, Mediterranean Sea: gunmen attack Italian cruise ship, Achille Lauro. One U.S. tourist killed. Hijacking linked to Libya.
Dec. 18, Rome, Italy, and Vienna, Austria: airports in Rome and Vienna were bombed, killing 20 people, 5 of whom were Americans. Bombing linked to Libya.

1986

April 2, Athens, Greece:A bomb exploded aboard TWA flight 840 en route from Rome to Athens, killing 4 Americans and injuring 9.
April 5, West Berlin, Germany: Libyans bombed a disco frequented by U.S. servicemen, killing 2 and injuring hundreds.

1988

Dec. 21, Lockerbie, Scotland: N.Y.-bound Pan-Am Boeing 747 exploded in flight from a terrorist bomb and crashed into Scottish village, killing all 259 aboard and 11 on the ground. Passengers included 35 Syracuse University students and many U.S. military personnel. Libya formally admitted responsibility 15 years later (Aug. 2003) and offered $2.7 billion compensation to victims' families.

1993

Feb. 26, New York City: bomb exploded in basement garage of World Trade Center, killing 6 and injuring at least 1,040 others. In 1995, militant Islamist Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman and 9 others were convicted of conspiracy charges, and in 1998, Ramzi Yousef, believed to have been the mastermind, was convicted of the bombing. Al-Qaeda involvement is suspected.

1995

Nov. 13, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: car bomb exploded at U.S. military headquarters, killing 5 U.S. military servicemen.

1996

June 25, Dhahran, Saudi Arabia: truck bomb exploded outside Khobar Towers military complex, killing 19 American servicemen and injuring hundreds of others. 13 Saudis and a Lebanese, all alleged members of Islamic militant group Hezbollah, were indicted on charges relating to the attack in June 2001.

1998

Aug. 7, Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania: truck bombs exploded almost simultaneously near 2 U.S. embassies, killing 224 (213 in Kenya and 11 in Tanzania) and injuring about 4,500. 4 men connected with al-Qaeda 2 of whom had received training at al-Qaeda camps inside Afghanistan, were convicted of the killings in May 2001 and later sentenced to life in prison. A federal grand jury had indicted 22 men in connection with the attacks, including Saudi dissident Osama bin Laden, who remained at large.

2000

Oct. 12, Aden, Yemen: U.S. Navy destroyer USS Cole heavily damaged when a small boat loaded with explosives blew up alongside it. 17 sailors killed. Linked to Osama bin Laden, or members of al-Qaeda terrorist network.


2001

Sept. 11, New York City, Arlington, Va., and Shanksville, Pa.: hijackers crashed 2 commercial jets into twin towers of World Trade Center; 2 more hijacked jets were crashed into the Pentagon and a field in rural Pa. Total dead and missing numbered 2,9921: 2,749 in New York City, 184 at the Pentagon, 40 in Pa., and 19 hijackers. Islamic al-Qaeda terrorist group blamed. (See September 11, 2001: Timeline of Terrorism.)

2002

June 14, Karachi, Pakistan: bomb exploded outside American consulate in Karachi, Pakistan, killing 12. Linked to al-Qaeda.

2003

May 12, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: suicide bombers killed 34, including 8 Americans, at housing compounds for Westerners. Al-Qaeda suspected.

2004

May 29–31, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: terrorists attack the offices of a Saudi oil company in Khobar, Saudi Arabia, take foreign oil workers hostage in a nearby residential compound, leaving 22 people dead including one American.
June 11–19, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: terrorists kidnap and execute Paul Johnson Jr., an American, in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. 2 other Americans and BBC cameraman killed by gun attacks.
Dec. 6, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia: terrorists storm the U.S. consulate, killing 5 consulate employees. 4 terrorists were killed by Saudi security.

2005

Nov. 9, Amman, Jordan: Suicide bombers hit 3 American hotels, Radisson, Grand Hyatt, and Days Inn, in Amman, Jordan, killing 57. Al-Qaeda claimed responsibility.

2006

Sept. 13, Damascus, Syria: an attack by four gunman on the American embassy was foiled.


2007

Jan. 12, Athens, Greece: the U.S. embassy was fired on by an anti-tank missile causing damage but no injuries

At what point is the US allowed to fight back?



The US did not fund Bin Laden contrary to popular myth The US funded what became the Northern Alliance in Afganistan. Bin Laden would not take US money and fought with other Afganistan groups that did. Bin Laden Funded Al- Qaeda with his own money. The Taliban was funded by the Pakistani ISI after the US cut off all funds to Afganistan in 1990. The US did offer the Taliban 280 million USD to cut off the heroin trade in 2000.

While I will be the first to admit the invasion of Iraq was a mistake and took place under false pretenses (I contend it was unneccessary even if there were WMD) The majority of the insurgency there is Saudi, Iranian, and Syrian fighters, there are groups that contend they are Al-Qaeda linked but in truth I dont have access to intellegence that would tell me if this true or not.The present admistration has bungled dealing with this situation badly. You cannot impose democracy on a nation (Iraq) unless you are willing to destroy totally and rebuild as we did with Germany and Japan in WW 2.

The US supplies weapons to its client states in the Middle East, so also do the Russians the Chinese and Members of the EU.

The Madrid and London train bombings would have occured without the US invasion of Iraq because of the difficulty that Al-Qaeda is having either getting agents into the US or recruiting agents in the US.


The Money spent in Iraq almost 1 trillion USD could have been better spent rebuilding Afganistan after 3 decades of war. The Afganistan situation would be better if other NATO countries would help out more Only the US, UK and Commonwealth countries are actually conducting combat operations, the other NATO countries troops are holed up in the Northern areas of the country and not in the combat area.

The US is supporting Governments in thier battles with terrorism in the Phillipines, Indonesia, The Gulf States, Pakistan, Lebanon, Morrocco, and basically any country that has asked for help.

The question really becomes do you want to end terrorism or not, The Nihlist Jihadi nutters of Al-Qaeda are going to continue attacking non Moslems and Moslems they disagree with even if the US were to totally leave world affairs. So the world can continue criticizing the US in its attmeps to fight this war or the world can help.

The world doesnt owe us anything and we dont owe the world anything.



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 09:23 PM
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Originally posted by johnsky


The USA deserves to be nuked. End of story!!!


Woah there, no they don't deserve to be nuked. Nobody does.

Just because theres a bunch of conspiracies about them, doesn't mean kill them off.

Yes, they're making a mess of this war on terror, yes, alot of them think of war before anything else, but they are a very young country. They are expected to do some immature things.

It will take a long history of war and suffering before they will smarten up. Until then, we just have to make sure they don't do any damage to the free world.


[edit on 29-7-2007 by johnsky]


Alright.. let me say this buddy.. We are not some civilization that just sprouted legs and began to walk upright. the US is made up of many different cultures. the US is made up of a people who have come from all corners, from all walks of life on earth. We lead the world in many many fields such as technology and freedom. American culture is among the fastest growing most admired cultures in the world (music, movies, fashion, technology etc). Many parts of the industrialized world are said to be "americanizing" because of this, america has set a fad, one the rest of the world has took note of and admires. We are the preeminent superpower of the world. Like it or not, we stabilize this world with our military presence.

We are a militarized society, maybe, but not becasue we like it. but because that is our expected duty. All throughout the coldwar who did the free world look to for saftey and stability? the Soviets? It was america, why? Because it was expected of us. We were "mother hen" while you all were the "chicks" looking for a direction. So forgive our overwhelming millitary force. We pay top dollar to have such a force in place, not just for our security.. but for yours as well (as seen in the past.)

And im just guessing here.. but your probably still a teen, and yet you have the audacity to call america "immature"...thats laughable as well as contradictory...


[edit on 29-7-2007 by West Coast]



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 09:39 PM
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Originally posted by sbardca1
If anything the US have helped inspire international terrorism over the past few years. The way they've messed about in the Middle East and Iraq has been the equivalent of poking a stick viciously and repeatedly into a wasps nest.


helped to inspire? Or helped to expose what has been happening for a very long time? What was the rest of the world doing about terrorism before the US got involved in the sense that it has now? It had to start somtime (war on terror) the US was the one who initiated the inevitable (as to not delay it any further). Its going to get ugly before it gets pretty.. Patiences is a virtue..



[edit on 29-7-2007 by West Coast]



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 09:51 PM
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makes me feel sick, this what happens when a non-democatic presence gets electic to lead the country, i mean is he trying to provoke the british people by saying this? im sure stumason would live it up by loving the royalty in charge.

[edit on 29-7-2007 by estar]



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 10:57 PM
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I liked what he said about how our two countries are linked. That is true. I don't believe the world owes us for fighting terrorism but I do believe many countries do owe us a huge debt.


Edn

posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 11:28 PM
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Originally posted by UM_Gazz
If the threat of Islamic terrorism is truly an international concern, and the U.S. is playing the lead role in eliminating this threat, and bearing the majority of cost, then indeed the world seems to owe the U.S. a debt, if it is only a debt of gratitude, then that would hardly suffice.
If anything the US (and other countries) have only made things worse, you would have though after fighting the IRA or years the UK would have learnt its session, you cant stop terrorism with more terrorism. The IRA didnt stop killing people because we shot at them as well, they stopped killing people because we started talking to them.




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