Mexican activist attempts to burn American Flag-key word "attempts"

I think the most interesting thing about all of this is the way people are reacting to it.
The US flag represents many things to many people. One person may see the flag as the representation of freedom and justice while another person may see the flag as a symbol of repression and expansionism.

When a person burns the flag they are burning away what they see wrong in what it symbolizes. This doesn't justify flag burning in my opinion, but, I find it hard to really demonize it the way some have been doing when I view it in that light.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by Digital_Reality
I have demonstrated!
You do not know me so don't act like you do.
You do not know what Ive done for my country or what my family has done for that matter .
You will NEVER know what it feels like to be an American and watch an American flag burn. You can only guess and even then you would not come close.

OK, OK, I bow to the Keyboard Wizard. Apperantly you forgot the part about the Constitution, you know, the basis of the American nation. :shk:

The constitution was not written as a means to reward or accomadate cowardice or treasonous activity. Certainly there are those who will choose to bend and warp the words of our constitution in order to justify their disgusting actions (i.e. child molestors, flag burners, general deviants) but in the end we all ultimately know what is right and what is wrong. Do not continue to use the U.S. constitution as justification for defacing the American flag, because it says nothing specific to the actual burning of or desecration of the flag directly or indirectly. However, I will guarantee you that if you had the opportunity to sit down with the signers of that great document and ask them "should flag burning be protected under the first amendment" you would most likely catch a colonial ass beating if not worse.

Any lowlife can hide behind gray areas of the constitution in order to justify their own abhorent behavior, does it make it right or ok?...no. As I said before, it may be perfectly LEGAL to burn the American flag, but be prepared to reap the consequences of your poor judgement.

you got one thing right ops.
if i were to get drafted when i was younger(too old now) i woulda been heading right on up to canada...i don't believe in the draft and just cause you thought things were fine in dandy in teh 40's, a lot of friggin people disagreed with you...

and treason for a flag buring...
thats a good one....

We are soft not only physically, but emotionally as well. America will never survive a prolonged fight for anything. It doesn't have the fortitude to do so.

Oh BS.

In WW2 we were fighting a REAL threat with the intent and the means to take over the planet, and that enemy attacked us first.

In Iraq we fought to get rid of a hapless imbecile dictator who wasn't a threat to anyone except his own people, hadn't attacked us, and despite the lies we were fed before the war, never had the means to do so.

There is absolutely no comparison between the debacle in Iraq and the Second World War. The comparison is totally absurd, even if Iraq had been aligned with Al Quaeda and its Islamist mileau (it wasn't, the secular regime Hussein led considered Islamists among it's deadliest internal enemies), they still wouldn't qualify as 1/100th the threat the Axis powers presented during WW2.

And BTW, to all those ranting about the glories of WW2 and the "wimpiness" of today's "liberals", you do realize that during WW2 we were led by the farthest-left leader this country has ever had, yes?

You're up next huh?

Originally posted by BlackOps719
The constitution was not written as a means to reward or accomadate cowardice or treasonous activity. Certainly there are those who will choose to bend and warp the words of our constitution in order to justify their disgusting actions (i.e. child molestors, flag burners, general deviants)

Do presidents come into you reasoning as well? Or do you blindly follow and desecrate the Constitution?

Do not continue to use the U.S. constitution as justification for defacing the American flag, because it says nothing specific to the actual burning of or desecration of the flag directly or indirectly.

Sorry mate, sounds like you're giving orders here. I don't react well to that. And why do you have a problem with the Constitution? It says something that doesn't settle well with you? You might want to enact YOUR 1st Amendment rights then. Oops, forgot, the Constitution only applies when it says what YOU want it to say.

Any lowlife can hide behind gray areas of the constitution in order to justify their own abhorent behavior, does it make it right or ok?...no. As I said before, it may be perfectly LEGAL to burn the American flag, but be prepared to reap the consequences of your poor judgement.

The Fore Fathers would be proud of this admission.

May I add, Zeig Heil? Your interpretation, not mine.

LOL@zeig heil...a bit mellow dramatic I see. I love how certain people throw the old "nazi" card out there when they encounter anyone of a more conservative view point than their own. Bravo for childishly resorting to name calling within the first five minutes of my post .


My only point was that just because something is constitutionally protected does not make it a good idea. And I wont stand in a persons right to protest, THAT my friend is what the constitution is about. The right to stand in defiance of tyranny, the right to voice your opinion, the right to be who or whatever you wish to be as long as it is within reason and does not adversely effect anyone else. Those are the things that I hold true and dear about the constitution.

BUT as I said, any freak with a personal agenda can alter and manipulate the wordings and text of the Bill of Rights to justify almost anything. Again, while it is perfectly LEGAL to burn our flag, it may not be such a great idea. I happen to take extreme offence at the sight of a burning American flag (as do many Americans...try burning one some time..you will see

Now legally I cannot do a thing about someone burning the flag, nor can I do anything legally about a convicted rapist dating my sister, but I will say this - try it once and it will never happen again. I never said I would not reap the legal ramifications of slamming my foot through somebodies ass for their choice of actions. It is really quite simple, for every action there is a reaction. Follow?

But why would I assume that a Canadian person such as yourself would have any idea about what it means to see an American flag burning....I shouldn't expect you to understand (although I certainly respect your right to your view point and opinion) perhaps it is a cultural difference...who knows. That Canadian flag sure is pretty though with the red and the white and the maple leaf and all of that history and heritage behind it...are you sure someone burning your homelands flag wouldn't upset you...just a little even? For some strang reason I have a feeling it would

Have a great day

However, I will guarantee you that if you had the opportunity to sit down with the signers of that great document and ask them "should flag burning be protected under the first amendment" you would most likely catch a colonial ass beating if not worse.

Which shows me how little you know about the people who founded this country and why they founded it.

Here's a little word on what you would probably consider "treasonous activity", from the primary architect of that document, Thomas Jefferson:

"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.
The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts
they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...
And what country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure."

To the people who founded this country, and who made it something unique in the history of the world, the liberty of individual citizens and their right to express their views without fear was far more important than the state or any of it's symbols.

Our "my country wrong or right" contingent seems to have forgotten that, and I am afraid that if we keep going in the direction we're headed, it may take seeing "the blood of patriots and tyrants" spilled once again to remind us precisely what we are fighting for.

Hint: it's not a colorful piece of cloth.

[edit on 7/31/07 by xmotex]

i friggin swear when i was reading ops posts, i was thinking the same damn thing....sig heil....

thats wild....bwuahahahahahahah

Originally posted by Boondock78
i friggin swear when i was reading ops posts, i was thinking the same damn thing....sig heil....

thats wild....bwuahahahahahahah

why is that? Because I love my country and choose to defend my own opinion? I see...these days patriotic = nazi? Sell that bull# to someone who is buying friend. You have probably never done a single thing in your entire life to benefit your country...you come across more as the lazy, apathetic, complaining sort.

See...it is fun to generalize about people we hardly know...isn't it?

PS : hahahahahahahaha

Originally posted by BlackOps719
LOL@zeig heil... I happen to take extreme offence at the sight of a burning American flag (as do many Americans...try burning one some time..you will see

Now legally I cannot do a thing about someone burning the flag, nor can I do anything legally about a convicted rapist dating my sister, but I will say this - try it once and it will never happen again. I never said I would not reap the legal ramifications of slamming my foot through somebodies ass for their choice of actions. It is really quite simple, for every action there is a reaction. Follow?

yeah, i follow.
another patriot tough guy that will kick some ass if someone burns that fabric...is that pretty much correct?
be dammed with peoples rights, you're a bad mofo and if you see it you're gonna rumble......
thats about the jist.

i just think it seems hypocritical.....for me it's religion. i hate it as much as you hate people that burn the flag.(just using this for comparison)
now, as much as i disagree with them i would stand up for their right to worship and pray or whatever....i wouldn't 'slam my foot in their ass for it though'.....why must you feel that way?

think/feel however you want towards that person but IMO, the way you and some of the others are, as far as being quick to jump to the implication that you'd give a beatdown for seeing it, i think you do an INJUSTICE to the people that have 'died for the flag'....

why? i am sorry but your attitudes against this are totally off the wall.
instead of writing the paper or the lawmakers or doing your own protest, you'd just wollop.


i just don't think you have the 'right' to pyhsically out your hands on someone....i know you said you'd be willing to face the consequences for it...that tells me two things...
you're lying and just saying that(which i don't think) or you actually would do whatever and face whatever, cause thats what you beleive....
now as much as i disagree i have to commend the angle of realizing being wrong and doing it anyway and being full well to face the consequences(as i do a few things that i would have to answer for, yet i still do them)...thing is though, you whailing on someone is not a victimless crime.

i just don't see that as a good or a patriotic or quality or a national sense of pride in a person willing to jump to an extreme like you would....

each is own i guess..

either way, i friggin love the talking.

thanks to all

Originally posted by BlackOps719

why is that? Because I love my country and choose to defend my own opinion?

not at all. please see my above post..i think i answered it...

i dig the fact that you defend your opinion as not too many people do these days..when it comes to certain things though, you have to draw the line...

I agree to disagree.

In my eyes there are certain things that you JUST DON"T DO. Burning the American flag happens to be one of those things. This is all 100% my own personal opinion ad I do not state these opinions as a guideline for what to do or not to do when encountered with such actions. And I am not endorsing anyone else to follow my actions. That being said, yes, if I see you burning an American flag in the streets of my home town I will most likley physically assault you. Not saying it is morally right, not saying I am a big tough guy who would win in said altercation, but is it worth a few days in jail or a fine for me to stand against something that I feel is disrespectful and down right disgusting and unforgivable? Yes it is. Guilty as charged.

Originally posted by BlackOps719
Burning the American flag is the same, in my opinion, as spitting on the constitution It is a cowardly act and should be viewed as treason. This will be the ultimate demise of our nation, good American men and women who sit idely by while a foreign invader desercrates the most recognizeable symbol of our freedom and our nation. Sure you can do it, and it is within your rights to do so, but do not act suprised when that neighbor beats you across your head with a blunt object after the fact.

In the 1940's you would have NEVER seen a person burn an American flag on a crowded American street. The reasons being that people back then actually cared about our country, people had their lives at stake and were invested heavily in the well being of our nation, people had pride and courage and were willing to stand up and if need be defend our heritage, our principles and our way of life. Modern day America is remeniscant of the Roman empire during her last dark days. Greed, lawlesness, fat, spoiled, lazy citizenry who were too busy focused on debauchery and self preservation to sacrifice themselves for the good of the Republic....and overall lack of regard for country, patriotism and our founding principles will eventually do us all in.

In my opinion those who burn the flag openly should be hanged for treason, those who sit by and watch others burn the flag should be attached to the rope next to them. YOU ARE THE ENEMY.

i trimmed it down and bolded(hopefully) the basic parts that make me want to sig heil ya....
very extreme, imo

Originally posted by BlackOps719
I agree to disagree.

In my eyes there are certain things that you JUST DON"T DO. Burning the American flag happens to be one of those things. This is all 100% my own personal opinion ad I do not state these opinions as a guideline for what to do or not to do when encountered with such actions.That being said, yes, if I see you burning an American flag in the streets of my home town I will most likley physically assault you. but is it worth a few days in jail or a fine for me to stand against something that I feel is disrespectful and down right disgusting and unforgivable? Yes it is. Guilty as charged.

i trimmed this too. i also agree to disagree.
there i things i feel the exact same way about...
for me, just assaulting someone is one of those things you don't do...
can't you just call them some names???

Originally posted by BlackOps719
...are you sure someone burning your homelands flag wouldn't upset you...just a little even? For some strang reason I have a feeling it would

Have a great day

You have NO idea the PC crap that's going on here. I'd save you from that but you wouldn't listen. You are too wrapped up in little things that don't apply. Like saving your country from small crap like the burning of a flag, which I might add for the 12th time is protected by the Constitution. Sorry if the small parts get in the way of your day but once you throw out the Constitution what have you got? I think Fascism follows.

BTW, we say "G'day eh."

Sorry to disappoint you chief, but that is the way I see it. Treason is still punishable by hanging or firing squad even in todays military and burning the flag to me is as treasonous as one can get. Does it sound a bit extreme or harsh, yes indeed, but where do you draw the line in the sand and say "this is not acceptable"?


Ok...ok....if not hanging....definately a long life busting rocks in Leavenworth. I concede that death is a bit harsh, but a long prison stint followed by susequent deportation is entirely justified. Again...just my opinion.

Originally posted by BlackOps719
Sorry to disappoint you chief, but that is the way I see it. Treason is still punishable by hanging or firing squad even in todays military and burning the flag to me is as treasonous as one can get. Does it sound a bit extreme or harsh, yes indeed, but where do you draw the line in the sand and say "this is not acceptable"?

Too bad that the document that America was founded upon disagrees with you. Don't you find that a little bit disconcerting? You are actually going against what made America GREAT!

I'm sure you will say "Too bad."

ops, i'd stand next to you to be able to publish that damn opinion.
i would just hope nobody agrees is all.

i get where you are coming from....just not in agreement

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by BlackOps719
...are you sure someone burning your homelands flag wouldn't upset you...just a little even? For some strang reason I have a feeling it would

Have a great day

You have NO idea the PC crap that's going on here. I'd save you from that but you wouldn't listen. You are too wrapped up in little things that don't apply. Like saving your country from small crap like the burning of a flag, which I might add for the 12th time is protected by the Constitution. Sorry if the small parts get in the way of your day but once you throw out the Constitution what have you got? I think Fascism follows.

BTW, we say "G'day eh."

Touche my Canadian friend.....I can only imagine.

However I do disagree with you one one point. You stated that I am too wrapped up in the little things to see what is really important, and I say to you the little things are the starting point and foundation for change. If you have people burining the American flag on the streets, you undermine every cause from there on out. If you allow such disrespect in your own streets then you have defeated yourself before you even begin.

Without honor, respect, loyalty, pride, the ideals that this great nation was founded upon, you have absolutely nothing. You may as well buy yourself a beret, move to France and crochet yourself a blanket to hide under.

Treason is still punishable by hanging or firing squad even in todays military and burning the flag to me is as treasonous as one can get.

Then you're an enemy of everything the Founders fought for, and you don't even know it.

"Treason" is betraying your country, your home and your neighbors, not burning a piece of cloth. The flag is merely a symbol of the country, but what defines the country IMHO is the set of ideas it was founded on, not it's abstract symbols.

Don't get me wrong, I don't approve as flag burning as a means of protest, as I explained earlier in the thread, but it is legal, it's Constitutionally-protected free speech.

Why?
The very First Amendment in our Constitution protects our freedom of speech, it says nothing about whether that speech is rude or even arguably treasonous.

The idea and practice of liberty is far more important than any mere symbol of it.

That's why the Supreme Court, as established in the Constitution, correctly ruled that flag-burning, however obnoxious, is protected speech.

[edit on 7/31/07 by xmotex]