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Mexican activist attempts to burn American Flag-key word "attempts"

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posted on Jul, 31 2007 @ 08:51 AM
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has it even been established that the guy was illegal?

yeah, shame america....shame for trying to stop people from speaking




posted on Jul, 31 2007 @ 08:52 AM
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Urrrgh. Patriotism and Jingoist nonsense. So what..... some guy attempted to burn your "precious" flag. Clearly this means that the world is falling apart! No one is safe! Lock up your daughters (and your livestock since deep down you know the depradations to which these foreigners will debase themselves)!

It's a symbol. Nothing more, and what it stands for is becoming increasingly worthless.

If someone burnt a Union Jack before my very eyes I would nary bat an eyelid. The burning of a George Cross, however, would probably elicit a smirk. A flag carries with it the weight of history, all the appauling acts that have been carried out by patriotic monsters stain the coloured cloth.

Although, it has to be said, that much of vitriol directed against the flag burners sound more like Nationalism than Patriotism.



posted on Jul, 31 2007 @ 08:54 AM
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OK, let's clear a few things up. First, "opinions". Opinions are not law. The Supreme Court has said that flag burning is LEGAL as a form of, wait for it.............FREE SPEECH!!! So there to opinions. Second. It hasn't been determined that this guy IS an immigrant. So for those that say if he wants to burn a flag he should go back to where he came from, are you referring to Houston Tx?



posted on Jul, 31 2007 @ 09:11 AM
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Originally posted by intrepid
OK, let's clear a few things up. First, "opinions". Opinions are not law. The Supreme Court has said that flag burning is LEGAL as a form of, wait for it.............FREE SPEECH!!! So there to opinions. Second. It hasn't been determined that this guy IS an immigrant. So for those that say if he wants to burn a flag he should go back to where he came from, are you referring to Houston Tx?


intrepid, i have been saying the same thing about the burning being allowed as free speech.

i guess when you are uber patriotic though, your opinion of 'it's an act of war'(that is hilarious by the way) trumps the bill of rights.
i unno

why is it to me, the 'patriots' seem to be the most 'violent/disgusted/bigoted'?

i don't know what word to use.....they condone hitting the guy, kicking him out of the country, assume hs is illegal, bring up the illegal issue and many other things....

they 'stand post' to fight for a country that believes in(supposedly) free speech, pursuit of happiness and the like but they sure don't act like it....

strange how that works huh?



posted on Jul, 31 2007 @ 09:21 AM
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Originally posted by Boondock78
they 'stand post' to fight for a country that believes in(supposedly) free speech, pursuit of happiness and the like but they sure don't act like it....

strange how that works huh?


Very funny actually. They state that they, or others, that have fought for their country, etc, etc, etc but they don't even take into account the Oath of Allegiance:


"I, [insert name here], do solemnly swear, (or affirm), that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."


"...I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic..."

Doesn't say anything about the flag. It's the Constitution. A question. By disallowing a person the right to burn the flag, as is covered by the Constitution, are they a "domestic enemy"?



posted on Jul, 31 2007 @ 09:33 AM
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Originally posted by intrepid
Very funny actually. They state that they, or others, that have fought for their country, etc, etc, etc but they don't even take into account the Oath of Allegiance:


it is pretty funny....thats how you swear in but as the years of service go by, apparently opinions change....

i just really don't see how supression can be a bad thing...



posted on Jul, 31 2007 @ 09:44 AM
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Originally posted by Boondock78
so it's an immigration issue again...i didn't know this was about a healthcare drain or people refusing to learn the language......

then of course the 'if you don't like it you can leave argument'...

you know, you guys are so robotic with your responses, you all sound the same.

leave the country
he was illegal
scum or this or that
hooraah for the guy that tried to take it
i woulda done the same(or more)
i was in the army...weeeeeeeeeeee

it's all the same response


And so is yours boondock, So what do you stand for? If I might ask since we are having a discussion about patriotism and the love for America. And since you have shown you agree with those who burn the US flag under the guise of freedom of speech.

I do suggest that it is an immigration issue plain and simple. Most of the immigrants who come here legally are here because they love this country and what it stands for. And also IMO they are more of a patriot then many who have been born here with silver spoons in their mouths and do nothing but trash the very country that has provided them with the freedoms they enjoy.

I am all for immigration legally and would do what ever I could to help someone get here legally. But the fact is millions don’t come here legally but want all the benefits we Citizens have and will burn flags to try and make a statement. This guy in the video I don’t know if he is legal and I don’t really care at this point. The point is about burning our flag and how obviously wrong it is even if it is protected under the constitution of the US. Im sure there are things that you don’t like to see but have to tolerate because it falls under the freedom of speech clause in the Constitution. I don’t have to like it and I don’t, and its freedom of speech which allows me to post my opinions.

Think about that the next time you stand up and place your right hand over your heart, look at the Flag and speak the National Anthem. Or maybe you don’t do that it’s your choice right?



posted on Jul, 31 2007 @ 10:01 AM
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Originally posted by DenyAllKnowledge

It's a symbol. Nothing more, and what it stands for is becoming increasingly worthless.


I would suggest that it is becoming worthless becasue it has been allowed for so long. To forget what the flag stands for will surely make it worthless over time.

I would ask you if someone burned an efigy of the queen mum or princess Di wrapped in a British flag would that piss you off?

Just asking not wanting a battle here. Some suggest I am only a red neck with no idea of the constitution or what it stands for. And I am only trying to defend the symbol of our freedom. nothing more

Take care



posted on Jul, 31 2007 @ 10:03 AM
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Originally posted by Boondock78

another patriot^^^^


Yes I feel that i am very patriotic to my country and will defend against anyone who grew up with all the benifits but non of the understanding of what went into being free and being able to live as we do now.


i like how people like this dude make it a point to let us know how they stood a post in the service to protect what the flag 'stands for' yet when people excercise their rights, they are pond scum..


I tell you that so that you understand I do feel i have the background and credentials to make my statement.



does the guy hate this country? how do you know


Isnt it obvious



in your opinion it is an act of war and in your opinion blah blah.....according to the opinion of the bill of rights though, you are allowed to do that.


Freedom of speech is one thing desecrating your countrys symbol of that freedom is yet another and shouldnt be held hostage to make your point about freedom of speech. Sad it really is very sad you have no values or loyalty to the country that you obviously love to live in.



thanks for defending my right to burn the flag though...big ups to you



I find it funny how you will fight for your right to burn the flag yet chastise someone for practicing thier right to stop it. Pretty self-serving and hipocritical wouldnt you agree?



i love how the patriots and the 'real amaricuns' can make with the name calling and stuff. they can call people scum and wish pain on them..they can know from a thread that the person is illegal AND that he hates this country.....
these are some smart patriots we have here.


Please show me where i state the guy is an illegal. Also show me where i wished pain on anyone.



i worry far more about people like this than someone who has the balls to stand out there and light a flag, mask or not...
and judging by the way some of the patriots in here act, he probably wore the mask to protet his safety from the likes of people like you.....
just a guess though


Please dont worry about me, im just a person who loves the country he lives in and defends the history which allows me to live the way I do. FREE

You seem to love living free as well, however the difference between me and you is that I would fight for my freedom and the symbols for which it stands , you would brush it off as an after thought and just say its freedom of speech.



posted on Jul, 31 2007 @ 10:19 AM
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Originally posted by intrepid
OK, let's clear a few things up. First, "opinions". Opinions are not law. The Supreme Court has said that flag burning is LEGAL as a form of, wait for it.............FREE SPEECH!!! So there to opinions. Second. It hasn't been determined that this guy IS an immigrant. So for those that say if he wants to burn a flag he should go back to where he came from, are you referring to Houston Tx?


Yes its not against the law to burn the US flag, we all know this already. Congress has tried to ban US flag burning however those who would allow the eroding of our nations history and culture voted against it. I include a link to the last attempt to make it illegal.

www.boston.com...

The constitution has been changed often so why not finally change it to outlaw Flag burning.



posted on Jul, 31 2007 @ 10:35 AM
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I see your argument that maybe he’s illegal and should be stopped. But what about all the “born American” who do that almost every time they go protest something? I’ve seen skinheads do it, I’ve seen hippies do it, and I’ve seen African Americans do it. Basically what I’m saying is you chose this argument only on the fact that the title said “Mexican Activist”.

I myself immigrated to this great U S of A when I was small. I grew up here my whole life and immersed myself in the culture. I am Spanish, I do not speak with an accent, and I am not your typical stereotype Hispanic. I joined the military when I was 19 and loved it. I have and will fight for this country till my last breath.

Yes this man has the freedom to do what pleases him because of Free Speech. Yes he can sit in the middle of the street burn his flag and all he would get is a ticket for disturbing the peace or disturbing traffic. And yes if I saw him doing that I would have done the same thing the gentleman that stopped him did and then some.

Yes he has the right to Free Speech, but you do not go into someone’s country and expect their citizens not to object and become confrontational when you burn their flag, or do something else to disgrace their country. If I were to go to the U.K. and burn their flag in the middle of the street I would hope one of their citizens would stop me.

I guess what I am trying to say is the argument should be over the right to free speech that the “Mexican Activist” expressed and the person that stopped him. It should not be about if he’s an illegal alien or not.

Btw
What makes him a Mexican Activist? Just because he is from Mexico and is objecting? If that’s the case, ever time I object to someone’s opinion here on ATS that makes me a Colombian Activist? How about when my wife object to someone’s opinion (she’s from California but family is Irish) does that make her an Irish Activist?


~Ghost~



posted on Jul, 31 2007 @ 10:55 AM
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Just to clear things up about my earlier posts I was not implying that he WAS an illegal immigrant. I was stating how I feel about an illegal immigrant burning a flag vs an American burning a flag and it got into my views on immigration.

Again I was not saying he was, just if he is this is how I feel and if he is not this is how I feel.

That being said he could just as well be illegal just as he could be legal so
automatically correcting someone when they say the word illegal to unofficially label him legal for this discussion is still the equivalent of a poster saying he is illegal.

Is this relevant ? Yes to me it is relevant if an illegal is burning a flag in my country.

Does this make me a racist? Hell no and just because I am patriotic and am sensitive to seeing someone degrade the country I live in does not classify me as a racist or bigot.



posted on Jul, 31 2007 @ 11:05 AM
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OK, bear with me here, this may seem off topic but it isn't.

What is the basis for the 2nd Amendment?



posted on Jul, 31 2007 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by geemony

Isnt it obvious

Sad it really is very sad you have no values or loyalty to the country that you obviously love to live in.


I find it funny how you will fight for your right to burn the flag yet chastise someone for practicing thier right to stop it. Pretty self-serving and hipocritical wouldnt you agree?


Please show me where i state the guy is an illegal. Also show me where i wished pain on anyone.

.


no it's not obvious he hates this country....not at all.

loyalty to the country.....that would take pages to get into..i was born here. i live here. i am a citizen here. i believe in the right to do whatever you want as long as it does not harm others....i live by my own set of rules/morals.......matter of fact, i just got done burning a couple religious books. gonna make a video....
why? cause i can and i am making a point.

i am not chastising anyones 'right' to stop the guy cause you have no right....you have the right to protest it, speak out against it, holler at him to stop, write your lawmakers and such but you do not have the right to take his flag or put your hands on him...that is what i have a problem with.
you never said he was illegal but you sure ranted about the illegals enough....sorry if i implied that you wished pain on him....others did though. i got confused.

in the end, shy of causing a murder, get on with what you have to do...



posted on Jul, 31 2007 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by ghostryder21
I see your argument that maybe he’s illegal and should be stopped. But what about all the “born American” who do that almost every time they go protest something? I’ve seen skinheads do it, I’ve seen hippies do it, and I’ve seen African Americans do it. Basically what I’m saying is you chose this argument only on the fact that the title said “Mexican Activist”.


Of course not I came in becasue of the flag burning period. I could care less what nationality the man is or what his status is. If he is illegal and thats not proven, then for sure run him out on a rail. That in it self should prime you up becasue you did come here legally and deserve everything you have been able to make for yourself. I touched on the illegal issue mearly to inform what illegal immigration does to a countries culture and history in the long run.




I myself immigrated to this great U S of A when I was small. I grew up here my whole life and immersed myself in the culture. I am Spanish, I do not speak with an accent, and I am not your typical stereotype Hispanic. I joined the military when I was 19 and loved it. I have and will fight for this country till my last breath.


And I will fight along side of you Sir.



Yes he has the right to Free Speech, but you do not go into someone’s country and expect their citizens not to object and become confrontational when you burn their flag, or do something else to disgrace their country. If I were to go to the U.K. and burn their flag in the middle of the street I would hope one of their citizens would stop me.


My overall point exactly and you said it better than i did obviously, Thank you



I guess what I am trying to say is the argument should be over the right to free speech that the “Mexican Activist” expressed and the person that stopped him. It should not be about if he’s an illegal alien or not.


I agree and I should apologize if I got a bit to animated but I do love the flag and what it stands for and i get very pissed when some people burn it with out knowing its history or what it stands for. Some say its just a symbol, and it doesnt mean anything. I dont hold to that one bit and I dont think our forefathers thought that either. When the flag bearer goes down in a fight another soldier picks up the flag and keeps it flying.



posted on Jul, 31 2007 @ 11:24 AM
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Originally posted by intrepid
OK, bear with me here, this may seem off topic but it isn't.

What is the basis for the 2nd Amendment?


Amendment II (the Second Amendment) of the United States Constitution, which is part of the Bill of Rights, declares a well regulated militia as "being necessary to the security of a free State", and prohibits Congress from infringement of "the right of the people to keep and bear arms."



posted on Jul, 31 2007 @ 11:31 AM
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Ha ha ha.

The posts here make me want to go buy a flag, roast that bad boy, then piss on it to put it out. All in front of a crowd of good ole boys. I hope they're as tough as the "true Americans" posting in this thread, cuz that would be some fine bare knuckle action.




posted on Jul, 31 2007 @ 11:33 AM
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A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Has its basis in the English Bill of Rights 1689

It also comes from the constitutions of the several individual States prior to the US Constitution being adopted.

Sources on the Second Amendment and Rights to Keep and Bear Arms in State Constitutions



posted on Jul, 31 2007 @ 11:37 AM
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So, to break that down, would it be safe to say that the right to bear arms is to offset the possibility of the govenment from using the "militia" on it's own citizens?



posted on Jul, 31 2007 @ 11:38 AM
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I am full aware of the fact that under the constitution on the USA that an American has the right to burn a flag as a demonstration of free speech.

I unerstand how that right makes this country great.
But it does not make it easy to watch none the less.



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