Sloshed In Space

sloshed in space

This revelation was all over the TV newsd over the last couple of days, above is the more sober report from Flight International.

How do we feel about this? Is it scandalous that these people are intoxicated whilst in charge of a spacecraft or do you feel that its no harm done as, so long as they point it upwards they can't actually hit anything?

It does seem a bit poor when it is (rightly) so unacceptable to be drunk in charge of a car. Coming after the 'Love triangle' scandal of a few weeks ago it is not a good time for NASA.

Well, certainly it is bad to be under any amount of consumption while driving/piloting, and it is blatantly breaking Nasa's rules of no consumption for 12 hours prior to takeoff, so it is a bad situation. I guess that is what it comes down to, even if the situatiuon is possibly being overblown.

I wonder though, just how intoxicated they were. Did they just have themselves a "safe trip" toast with a quick shooter, or did they polish off a 66'er right before going up the launch elevator?
Each individual's alcohol tolerance level is another thing I wonder about. One shooter for me gets me a little tipsy, however a buddy of mine can drink a case of beer to himself and you cant tell that he has been drinking at all...

Is there specific details on how much they drank, what they drank, when, and who all did the drinking?

Two last questions; What is the difference in effect of alcohol as altitude goes way up? Also what effect does gravity have on the effect of alcohol as gravity goes to zero?

ABSOLUTE RUBBISH..

Its been scientifically proven that when you are drunk you know you can drive better!

And hell, if I was sitting on top of a few million pounds of liquid hydrogen in a vehicle that had a demonstrated kaboom rate of a little over 1 in 50, I wouldn't be drinking the night before, I would have been on an all night bender and smashed out of my skull so much they would need to pour me through that crew hatch. who wants to spontaneously combust at 300 thousand feet and be sober? Not me. I say good luck to them, and pass around the diapers.

LEE.

Drinking before a shuttle launch is a shameful and dangerous thing to be doing. But considering the safety record of the shuttle, it's almost understandable. If I was going up in that thing, knowing that I was listed as expendable cargo, I might want to get a little numb too.

Altitude, in the form of atmospheric pressure, has a large effect on how well you handle your alcohol. Commercial airlines pressurize at 10,000 ft and hold that pressure until they descend below it. If you watch the people who hit the airport bar hard before a flight, they nod off at about 10,000 ft and wake up on the descent. This has to do with the levels of oxygen in the atmosphere and the pressure.
I don't know what gravity would do, but if the Vomit Comet is any indication, I wouldn't want to be riding with them.

I thought the initial take-off was all under computer (inertial) guidance? Its not like the guy has to pilot the thing down a small lane and avoid shuttles coming from the other direction.

Anyway, it seems we have here another instance of what I wrongly call the "Hero's Fallacy." Basically, when we admire someone for something they have done we tend to attribute to them all the things we wish we were. We make them, in our minds, just and temperate, thoughtful and honest, or moral and responsible. When they do something in violation of that self induced delusion, we feel personally violated because the attributes we assigned in the first place were attributes we foremost wished to see in ourselves. Then, to resolve the internal conflict, we seek to cast them down from their pedestal and try to paint them as "more flawed" then you or I. In this way, we seek comfort from the truth that we are just as capable of wrongdoing.

Seriously, he made a mistake that most here have done themselves (imbibing at an inappropriate time.) Let it go, see him as a person and not an astronaut and you will understand.

Besides, what if it was all a huge misunderstanding on the part of the astronaut? Who knows, maybe he thought the flight director wanted him to load up on some "rocket fuel" before the launch.

Jon

DIET: Hey it just occurred to me, we can send dogs and monkeys into space (alone at that!) so why does it really matter if one astronaut out of, what like four to six, is enjoying his ride? Besides, wouldn't you want to try a few floating Jager-Bombs in space? I know I would!

[edit on 7.31.2007 by Voxel]

Originally posted by Voxel
I thought the initial take-off was all under computer (inertial) guidance? Its not like the guy has to pilot the thing down a small lane and avoid shuttles coming from the other direction.

And if something goes wrong? I agree with you it is alot of internal and none human guidance and correction going on but the what if of a problem and a pilot who is to drunk to land or deal with the situation is a horrible and selfish thing. Also some one asked and yes it is true that with altitude the effects of booze increase with the drop in pressure and lack of oxygen. Mind you 90% of any of these types of flight your pressurized but still not to ground level but more around 6, 000 ft I believe.

Seriously, he made a mistake that most here have done themselves (imbibing at an inappropriate time.) Let it go, see him as a person and not an astronaut and you will understand.

Hey Hey your missing the pilot don't view his as anything other then the position he fills pilot of the shuttle and a astronaut. Is he human yes but it inexcusable for someone in his position to even touch a bottle 12 hours before hand. Heck its 7 hours for myself and any pilot bottle to throttle what makes this guy different?

Besides, what if it was all a huge misunderstanding on the part of the astronaut? Who knows, maybe he thought the flight director wanted him to load up on some "rocket fuel" before the launch.

Looking past the joke I do agree wih the meaning/idea of that misunderstanding happen but every person is responce able for there actions and be held accountable

When I was a Naval aircrewman, we had the same 12 hour rule that NASA has. What I have to ask here is a simple question. Who violated this rule and how intoxicated were they? If this was just some mission specialist, it would be the same as my having a beer on a flight to Chicago. If it was a pilot who had a drink 11 hours before flight, again I don't see a problem.
In my opinion this has been blown all out of proportion. I don't see NASA medical personel allowing someone to fly a shuttle when they are incapable of doing so. This is just media hype and needs to go away.

What about the guys on the ground?

How many important decisions have been made under the fog of drink (other drugs?) could be possible a quick nip on the loo's (no too easy) has actually helped - had they breath tested all ground crew for apollo 11 mish things could be different.

If i'm ever up there looking down, and I didn't have any important jobs and stuff, guess what flavor brownie I would fancy

Originally posted by JIMC5499
In my opinion this has been blown all out of proportion. I don't see NASA medical personel allowing someone to fly a shuttle when they are incapable of doing so. This is just media hype and needs to go away.

You could be right Jim and I really respect the stuff you post here but I disagree and think that even though I don't want to hurt NASA stuff like this needs to have hard set line and shouldn't be viewed as just a "guideline". I agree that these pilots were not slushed out of their bucket because it would be hard to get past the prefligth medical the day of. But bending the rules in space flight and anything to do with it shoudl be a no go thats why we had Challenger.

Originally posted by Now_Then
What about the guys on the ground?

How many important decisions have been made under the fog of drink (other drugs?) could be possible a quick nip on the loo's (no too easy) has actually helped - had they breath tested all ground crew for apollo 11 mish things could be different.

If i'm ever up there looking down, and I didn't have any important jobs and stuff, guess what flavor brownie I would fancy

I remember being allowed two beers with my lunch and then going back to work as an aircraft mechanic. Funny thing is that I still had to take a urine test every month for illegal drugs. I don't see anything wrong with the two beer rule. Problem is that personal responsibility has gone extinct and you can't trust anyone to follow the rules anymore, hence the draconian regulations we have now.

Originally posted by JIMC5499
Problem is that personal responsibility has gone extinct and you can't trust anyone to follow the rules anymore, hence the draconian regulations we have now.

Wise words indeed.

Originally posted by Now_Then

Originally posted by JIMC5499
Problem is that personal responsibility has gone extinct and you can't trust anyone to follow the rules anymore, hence the draconian regulations we have now.

Wise words indeed.

I think that can be said for pretty much all of society and the military is no longer above it - it seems.

Originally posted by Canada_EH
You could be right Jim and I really respect the stuff you post here but I disagree and think that even though I don't want to hurt NASA stuff like this needs to have hard set line and shouldn't be viewed as just a "guideline". I agree that these pilots were not slushed out of their bucket because it would be hard to get past the prefligth medical the day of. But bending the rules in space flight and anything to do with it shoudl be a no go thats why we had Challenger.

The problem I have with this is that we don't even know if NASA's rules were broken. All we have are allegations. No one has been named, no dates have been mentioned. I'd like to see a copy of the rule that was supposedly broken. Our 12 hour rule started from the time listed on the Flight schedual for takeoff. How is NASA's worded? Is it from the launch time, the man-up time or the briefing time? Sometimes we had a 2 or 3 hour briefing and then 1 to 1-1/2 hours of preflight. I've been to several shuttle launches, we used to fly down from Jacksonville to watch them. I know that the crew is sometime in the shuttle 4 hours or longer before liftoff. Considering this when the 12 hours starts can be arbitrary.

When someone starts naming specifics then we can start worrying about this, until then I stand by my previous statement of media hype.

Originally posted by Canada_EH
You could be right Jim and I really respect the stuff you post here but I disagree and think that even though I don't want to hurt NASA stuff like this needs to have hard set line and shouldn't be viewed as just a "guideline". I agree that these pilots were not slushed out of their bucket because it would be hard to get past the prefligth medical the day of. But bending the rules in space flight and anything to do with it shoudl be a no go thats why we had Challenger.

The problem I have with this is that we don't even know if NASA's rules were broken. All we have are allegations. No one has been named, no dates have been mentioned. I'd like to see a copy of the rule that was supposedly broken. Our 12 hour rule started from the time listed on the Flight schedual for takeoff. How is NASA's worded? Is it from the launch time, the man-up time or the briefing time? Sometimes we had a 2 or 3 hour briefing and then 1 to 1-1/2 hours of preflight. I've been to several shuttle launches, we used to fly down from Jacksonville to watch them. I know that the crew is sometime in the shuttle 4 hours or longer before liftoff. Considering this when the 12 hours starts can be arbitrary.

When someone starts naming specifics then we can start worrying about this, until then I stand by my previous statement of media hype.

Originally posted by Canada_EH
You could be right Jim and I really respect the stuff you post here but I disagree and think that even though I don't want to hurt NASA stuff like this needs to have hard set line and shouldn't be viewed as just a "guideline". I agree that these pilots were not slushed out of their bucket because it would be hard to get past the prefligth medical the day of. But bending the rules in space flight and anything to do with it shoudl be a no go thats why we had Challenger.

The problem I have with this is that we don't even know if NASA's rules were broken. All we have are allegations. No one has been named, no dates have been mentioned. I'd like to see a copy of the rule that was supposedly broken. Our 12 hour rule started from the time listed on the Flight schedual for takeoff. How is NASA's worded? Is it from the launch time, the man-up time or the briefing time? Sometimes we had a 2 or 3 hour briefing and then 1 to 1-1/2 hours of preflight. I've been to several shuttle launches, we used to fly down from Jacksonville to watch them. I know that the crew is sometime in the shuttle 4 hours or longer before liftoff. Considering this when the 12 hours starts can be arbitrary.

When someone starts naming specifics then we can start worrying about this, until then I stand by my previous statement of media hype.

I'll agree with that Jim. With out more detail anymore statements about blam on a person and more info on NASA rules is just specualtion.