It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by thebozeian
esecallum, where to begin?
in the centre of the aircraft and at least several feet deep to fit your mechanism, umbilicals and drive motors. Where do you intend on putting the fuel, engines and structural load bearing members like the wing carry through spars/box? The only aircraft with something like this already designed into it is the F-35B. And as I said given that there are virtually no air to air missile designs much under 9/10 ft in length, even short range ones, you are going to end up with one VERY large diameter turret that will weigh with all its power accessories an awful lot.
JUST LIKE THE STEALTH BOMBER which does a very similar thing withmissiles.
The B-2 uses a ROTARY launcher in an internal bay, NOT your turret. It is also able to do this because it is a bomber, much larger than a fighter and the internal weapon bays are therefore able to be very large indeed.
NO WAY CAN U REFUTE THAT..
I wasn't refuting the B-2 rotary launcher YOU brought that up. But I DID just refute why a turret type launcher won’t work on a fighter.
i fear the reason you are making spuriuos objections is simple envy.
you did not think of it first so you try to dismiss the idea.
.
when everyone has forgotten then you will claim the idea as your own...
i find that morally reprehensible.
LEE.
[edit on 2-8-2007 by thebozeian]
Originally posted by esecallum
i suggested rotatable pylons...
but u claimed the missile would tumble...
which is nonsense
when i answered with the lancaster u started lying...
i mean what are those gun turrets for?
decoration?
u ignored and talked about turrets.
then u started talking about complexity...
missiles can be fired from steerable pylons...
MY ORIGINAL IDEA.
u point and shoot from a similar launcher as in a sholder lauch cannister...
a small charge fires it like a bullet...
ON BOATS U SEE MISSILE BATTERIES FIRING AT A TARGET...
ON PLANES U DONT NEED BATTERIES...
THE MISSILES ARE STORED IN LIGHT CANNISTERS..
and you cannot dodge aaf...
its impossible...
by the time u see a bullet
u r already hit...
#
no tumbling...
at all
YOU CAN FIRE A SIDEWAY MISSILE AT HIGH SPEED IN ANY DIRECTION...
when i answered with the lancaster u started lying...
Originally posted by esecallum
look i too can use old aircraft to bolster my postion.
the avro lancaster was hugely successful AND IT HAD 2 TURRETS...
YOU GOT THAT?
2 ANTI AIRCRAFT TURRETS...
and it shot down thousands of nazi planes.
the missiles are simply put into a disc shaped turret.
to fire one the disc shaped turret pops out for 1 second shoots the missile at the target and pops into the airframe flush with the surface.
JUST LIKE THE STEALTH BOMBER which does a very similar thing with missiles.
NO WAY CAN U REFUTE THAT..
i fear the reason you are making spuriuos objections is simple envy.
you did not think of it first so you try to dismiss the idea.
.
when everyone has forgotten then you will claim the idea as your own...
i find that morally reprehensible.
YOU CAN FIRE A SIDEWAY MISSILE AT HIGH SPEED IN ANY DIRECTION...
Originally posted by Darkpr0
If a mod wants to warn me or punish me in some way because of the words in this post, that's your call. I just felt that something seriously needed to be said here. I'm disappointed that threads with ideas have to turn this way.
Request mod lock/delete to fix the flame war.
NO, YOU suggested a pop up turret when you were talking to ME. You mentioned the steerable pylon in your first post on page one. You said the following about pop up turrets
i suggested rotatable pylons...
but u claimed the missile would tumble...
which is nonsense
Now are you going to accuse me of inventing that? And it isnt nonsense the missile WOULD very likely tumble if fired sideways at high speed if not be ripped apart and possibly the aircraft as well.
the missiles are simply put into a disc shaped turret.
to fire one the disc shaped turret pops out for 1 second shoots the missile at the target and pops into the airframe flush with the surface.
No I didn't waynos did, I merely agreed with him on that word I asked you to look up in the dictionary "ANALOGY". The only person changing the goalposts is you.
no no no
you keep changing the goalposts...
first you bought the boulton into it.
This statement doesnt even make sense, I never even talked about the Lancaster, you mentioned it in reply to my first post. I didn't discuss it or start "lying" about it.
when i answered with the lancaster u started lying...
i mean what are those gun turrets for?
decoration?
I didn't ignore you. It was YOU who brought up the idea of pop up turrets and it was YOU who mentioned the Lancaster turrets. And YES I did mention the absurd complexity of YOUR pop up turret idea.
u ignored and talked about turrets.
then u started talking about complexity...
The only movable pylons are on swing wing aircraft like the Tornado and F-111, and they are designed to always point the pylon and its payload forward regardless of what angle the wing is swept at. The simple reason is that if they didnt and the pylon if it pointed to the side like you suggest, would either rip off in the slipstream or cause the aircraft to loose control because of massive drag. So no it isnt YOUR ORIGINAL IDEA, its already been done but to do the opposite of what you suggest because your idea DOESNT WORK!
missiles can be fired from steerable pylons...
MY ORIGINAL IDEA.
What would be the point of putting it in a canister that would be at least 10ft long, there are no air to air missiles under about 9ft in length? We don't need them now, how would this be any better? It will still cause massive drag when you rotate it off axis to the direction the aircraft is moving in, and "hey presto" you ripped the pylon or wing off your aircraft or span out of control.
u point and shoot from a similar launcher as in a sholder lauch cannister...
a small charge fires it like a bullet...
ON BOATS U SEE MISSILE BATTERIES FIRING AT A TARGET...
ON PLANES U DONT NEED BATTERIES...
THE MISSILES ARE STORED IN LIGHT CANNISTERS...
and you cannot dodge aaf...
its impossible...
by the time u see a bullet
u r already hit...
#
no tumbling...
at all
You need to go back to shool and study basic physics and or talk to someone who understands aerodynamics. You cannot fire a missile sideways at high speed, it will go out of control or be destroyed by the aerodynamic forces involved.
YOU CAN FIRE A SIDEWAY MISSILE AT HIGH SPEED IN ANY DIRECTION...
Originally posted by thebozeian
What, and miss all the fun as esecallum explains his engineering genius and how he also invented the wheel with three sides,
lightbulbs
and a cat that is usefull for something?
Originally posted by thebozeian
You are the least of this threads problems.
This thread is almost as good as that '747 to orbit' one - very very funny with very little actual understanding of any physics!
After accusing these members of being wrong, you are lucky they came back and even bothered to type out a non-rude, factual reply to you.
Originally posted by thebozeian
esecallum, where to begin?
Firstly your posts, would you please put your comments into good old fashioned sentence and paragraph form. Your writing's and therefore you’re meaning, are difficult to understand and disjointed. The word "I" is a first person pronoun, it is
As for the rest,
[edit on 2-8-2007 by thebozeian]
Originally posted by esecallum
the shuttle flies backwards at mach 25.on re-entry.
it turns forwards and at certain times IT IS SIDEWAYS to the flight path at up to mach 25 !!!!!!!.
ALL UNDER CONTROL.
WITHOUT TUMBLING.
i mean an aircraft like a 747 or any other aircraft has a cross sectional area hundreds of time bigger.
flying aginst the wind at the nose.
A MISSILE IS A TINY LITTLE THING.
and it's cylindrical too.
so it's not even a flat surface AT RIGHT ANGLES TO THE FLIGHT PATH.
BECAUSE IT'S CURVED!
I WRITE THIS WAY SO YOU CAN UNDERSTAND IT EASILY.
also a wing can be imagined to be made up of hundreds of missiles at right angles stuck together.
the tornado aircraft proves my point you can have pylons which can turn.
you say you are a designer but you must be over 25 which means you are incapable of fresh thought as your mind would have ossified.
i dare say if you had been alive when the wright brothers flew at kity hawk you would have proved to the world on paper it was impossible.
going back further in time you would said the same thing when the first wheel was invented.
in your own post you proved that missiles dont tumble when you said they have a wide angle of firing.
747 to orbit was based on the fact that any object travelling parallel to the earhs surface at an ever increasing speed would experience a lifting force based on:- a =v squared /r after wing lift was exhausted in the upper reaches of the atmosphere.but you denied that just because you are conditioned.
the 747 to orbit was proved with calculations and equations but again your ingrained prejudices prevent you from
I nearly spat out my late night beer on the monitor and p###ed myself laughing. Maybe it's my non standard sense of humour, but that is quite possibly the funniest post I have come across. Please keep me laughing, it helps me through this thread.And no, the lightbulbs in question are not the eco friendly type, they would be esecallum's special non working type!
and a cat that is usefull for something?
See the definition on "cat", particularly the section saying that "a cat is a quadruped with no known function. Alterations on the above do not qualify as cats."
Since we can't get into the white house this is the next best entertainment.
If we wanted to see a whole lot of well-informed people placing the truth squarely in front of someone who doesn't seem to have any elementary understanding about what they're doing, we'd be watching and posting about a Bush press conference.
Sorry, had to get that Bush crack in here somewhere.
...Except when you call them liars.
i did not inmsult anyone.
an observation is not an insult.
a truth is not an insult unless you you are being incorrect.
"wake up everyone, its groundhog day!"
you are wrong about a missile tumbling.
I believe RichardPrice has covered this perfectly well. When it flies backwards in orbit there's no air genius! No air equals no aerodynamic drag, and it performs it's backflip and deburn rentry manouvre BEFORE it hits the earths atmosphere.
the shuttle flies backwards at mach 25.on re-entry.
it turns forwards and at certain times IT IS SIDEWAYS to the flight path at up to mach 25 !!!!!!!.
ALL UNDER CONTROL.
WITHOUT TUMBLING.
Again Richard has covered this well, the reason cylinders dont make good wings is because they create more drag and less lift. Read a book sometime.
A MISSILE IS A TINY LITTLE THING.
and it's cylindrical too.
so it's not even a flat surface AT RIGHT ANGLES TO THE FLIGHT PATH.
BECAUSE IT'S CURVED!
If this is writing clearly in short sentences I would hate to see you being unclear. And with this one exception "I" see you are still spelling "I" as an "i". Here at least you are consistent.
i write short sentances.
I WRITE THIS WAY SO YOU CAN UNDERSTAND IT EASILY.
Yes rather like trying to clutch at a handful of straws.
also a wing can be imagined to be made up of hundreds of missiles at right angles stuck together.
Please reread what myself, Richard and waynos have said, the pylon is designed to always remain pointing forward for a reason.
the tornado aircraft proves my point you can have pylons which can turn.
I never said I was a designer, but yes I am over 25 so I have learnt a thing or two and am open to ideas that actually work. And I already said I thought of the turret missile idea as a teenager 20+ years ago and it doesnt work! Ossified? esecallum have you been playing in the dictionary again? I told you to look up analogy, not ossify.
you say you are a designer but you must be over 25 which means you are incapable of fresh thought as your mind would have ossified.
Blah, blah, blah... and you would have told them to take off sideways and put a quadruped with no known function in charge.
i dare say if you had been alive when the wright brothers flew at kity hawk you would have proved to the world on paper it was impossible.
going back further in time you would said the same thing when the first wheel was invented.
I was talking about helmet mounted cueing and high off bore sight axis acquisitions. NOT actually firing the missile side ways. Please take a look at this technology by looking up "AIM-9 Sidewinder" and how they work or similar missiles on Wikipedia, and read the whole thing carefully.
in your own post you proved that missiles dont tumble when you said they have a wide angle of firing.
Yes, once again I never mentioned this but by now we are all getting used to your idiosyncrasies. I must say I haven't seen to many 747's in orbit recently, perhaps one day they can join you up there?
747 to orbit was based on the fact that any object travelling parallel to the earhs surface at an ever increasing speed would experience a lifting force based on:- a =v squared /r after wing lift was exhausted in the upper reaches of the atmosphere.but you denied that just because you are conditioned.
Originally posted by esecallum
i did not inmsult anyone.
a truth is not an insult unless you you are being incorrect.
you are wrong about a missile tumbling.
the shuttle flies backwards at mach 25.on re-entry.
it turns forwards and at certain times IT IS SIDEWAYS to the flight path at up to mach 25 !!!!!!!.
ALL UNDER CONTROL.
WITHOUT TUMBLING.
i mean an aircraft like a 747 or any other aircraft has a cross sectional area hundreds of time bigger.
flying aginst the wind at the nose.
A MISSILE IS A TINY LITTLE THING.
i write short sentances.
also a wing can be imagined to be made up of hundreds of missiles at right angles stuck together.
the tornado aircraft proves my point you can have pylons which can turn.
you say you are a designer but you must be over 25 which means you are incapable of fresh thought as your mind would have ossified.
in your own post you proved that missiles dont tumble when you said they have a wide angle of firing.
the 747 to orbit was proved with calculations and equations but again your ingrained prejudices prevent you from
Originally posted by esecallum
i did not inmsult anyone.
I nearly spat out my late night beer on the monitor and p###ed myself laughing.
And for someone 20 years my junior (physically perhaps? not mentally ) you do it with an exceedingly dry, mature wit. This is important, as it's the number one requirement if you want to become an aircraft engineer.
Originally posted by Darkpr0
It's what I do.
I would never bag the Flanker family anymore than I would any western aircraft costing 2/3 times as much. In fact if fitted with western engines and avionics I believe they would be superior to anything bar the Raptor. However given that this been such fun we have been having, maybe I should just tell you they are crap anyway. That way we both get what we want.
Originally posted by Darkpr0
Also, if you want this combined with a factual reply, say something nasty about a Su-27/30/33/34/35/37/etc. THEN I have my fun