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The Middle East conflict confuses me...

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posted on Jul, 27 2007 @ 12:02 PM
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Why do liberals always side with the Muslims/Palestinians exactly?

Israel is the most liberal country in the middle east. There is little gender discrimination, they have full rights for homosexuals, its the most progressive country there, it has a secular government where you can have any religion you want. Why do Liberals hate it? In Palestine they consider homosexuals traitors because they associate them with Israel. In some cases they are killed. Don't believe me?

en.wikipedia.org... - Read the Palestinian Issues section.

But this also confuses me in the sense that the Neo-Conservative right in my country supports the Israelis. These are the same people who are trying to uphold conservative Christian values which are very similar to the values of most Muslim countries.

Ann Coulter actually pointed this out. Mind you guys I hate her and I think she is the real life equivalent to a forum troll, but she sadly made a point, although she used it to make liberals look like hypocrites rather than to defend liberal social issues of course, like I am.

This has been one of the things bugging me ALOT lately and upsetting me...

[edit on 7/27/2007 by Kacen]




posted on Jul, 27 2007 @ 12:04 PM
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I'm a textbook liberal and I don't side with the Palestinians.

Just because a society has a good social record does not excuse their actions and their foreign policy.



posted on Jul, 27 2007 @ 12:15 PM
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Problem is the way I see it they are attacking people with a poor social issue record.

I should tell you I'm very liberal on social issues but conservative on economic issues.

Also I am extremist in my beliefs, so...somehow I don't really feel bad about Palestinians getting killed. Call me cruel and heartless, but I can't help but feel like they deserve it. Granted thats not the reason the Israeli's are killing them, I guess I just see it as Karma biting the Muslims back...

Also when Muslims claim Israel hates Muslims its just not accurate. If they did, Muslims wouldn't even be allowed in Israel. They are allowed to live there. There is even a Muslim or more in the Israeli government.

The Israeli/Palestinian conflict is more about territory than religion. Its not "We're killing you because your Muslim." its more like "We're killing you because your there/in our way." Principally that doesn't make it right but it's why it confuses me why EVERY MUSLIM ON EARTH sides with Palestine and takes it personally. I mean Christians typically don't feel for other Christians in that sense.

It wouldn't make a difference if the Palestinians were Muslims or not.



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 03:22 PM
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Have you looked at the history and details of the conflict, Kacen? It's pretty complex, but it shouldn't be that confusing until you start mixing in sixty years worth of op-ed pieces.

End of World War One - the British gain control of Transjordan and Palestine after the division of the Ottoman Empire. Palestine is populated primarily by Arab farmers in the North, and Bedouin herders in the south. Islam and Christianity are the primary religions, though Judaism and Druze are fairly notable minorities.

1947 - the UN comes up with a partition plan for the British territory of the Palestinian Mandate. There is to be an "Arab" state and a "Jewish" state.

The Arab state was going to consist of the Eastern and Northern highlands near the border with Jordan and Lebanon, as well as a third of the Mediterranean coast and the border with Egypt.

The Jewish state was everything else, and there is the problem. Jews made up 33% of the population of the mandate, primarily immigrants, and would be receiving roughly 60% of the land. The Jewish state would control the only port on the Red Sea, the oil fields, the fertile lands in the north and west of the territory, as well as the territory's primary source of fresh water - the Sea of Galilee, along with the headwaters of the Jordan River.

In other words, the Arabs were getting screwed on this, big-time. Naturally the Arab leadership rejected the plan. Unfortunately, nobody gave a damn because Great Britain, France, the United States, and Russia all thought it was a splendid idea, and put lots of pressure on their spheres of influence to swing the voting. The Palestinian Mandate / Transjordan of course didn't get a vote in this.

Violence was naturally the result - just as it has been with very other arbitrary colonial border-drawing exercise. Transjordan, Egypt, Iraq, Lebanon, and Syria went to war with Israel and, with Israel being backed by America and Europe, the Arab forces lost - and gave away huge chunks of the Palestinian Arab state.

Yeah, figure that one out. It'd be like Cuba going to war with Mexico, losing, and giving Florida to the Mexicans.

So in short... it's the same messy colonial bullcrap that gave us the fighting between India and Pakistan, the Yugoslav states, the nations of Africa, etc. Colonial powers drawing lines without much concern about the results



posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 04:56 AM
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reply to post by Kacen
 


I don't even know where to start with Israel.
But I will say this, we shouldn't be protecting them and funding their terroristic ways. We should just stop supporting Israel alltogether, I could really care less about Israel or the Middle East.

I'm really trying to be nice about Israel, but their is nothing nice I can say about them.



posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 05:02 AM
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Originally posted by Kacen
somehow I don't really feel bad about Palestinians getting killed. Call me cruel and heartless, but I can't help but feel like they deserve it.

The Israeli/Palestinian conflict is more about territory than religion. Its not "We're killing you because your Muslim." its more like "We're killing you because your there/in our way." Principally that doesn't make it right but it's why it confuses me why EVERY MUSLIM ON EARTH sides with Palestine and takes it personally. I mean Christians typically don't feel for other Christians in that sense.

It wouldn't make a difference if the Palestinians were Muslims or not.


You are cruel and heartless.

People don't hate in a vacuum, The Israeli/Palesinian conflict is over territory, Israel keeps making it's boarders wider and wider, building dungeons to put Palestanians in to torture and kill, even innocent women and children, the problem is that the whole middle east is f-cked up, and has been for 1000's of years, and it's not gonna stop because of the USA, I say we stop supporting Israel and let them fend for themselves, I personally don't like my tax dollars being used for the dirty in-humane sh-tty stuff that Israel has been doing for sometime. Karma will come back and bite Israel hard, and I can't wait untill I see the fall of that doomed nation.



posted on Sep, 20 2007 @ 10:31 PM
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To the OP:

If you read some of the responses already posted you will see why this conflict is so complicated and confusing.

This conflict brings out a lot of passion and history and that's just here, imagine for the people that have live it first hand.

I have been involved on many threads here that deal with this issue and I have fail to see except on few occasions (which are few and far in between) people agreeing in something. They are either pro Israel or anti Israel, pro Arabs or anti Arabs there is no in between and again that's just us here.

I have yet seen a thread being open were we can discuss or debate in a none rethorical with a realistic approach how we can go about to bring peace to the middle east. Taking all the facts that we have now at the present we can talk about, how land is going to be divided, how can both states can coexist with peace, how can they be relations with this two nations, how to bring other nations to the process like Iran, Syria, Lebanon to secure that peace will be maintain, how to control to extremist on both sides that will try to derail the process.

Those are the things that we should be debating, instead who stole land from who, who messed up what, who's bomb the crap out of the other first. The fact is that we have a conflict that is not going to be resolve with rethoric is going to be resolve with action for better or worse. We should all get off the war and hate bandwagon and start coming out with some solutions, how can we expect our leaders to get serious about the middle east peace process if all we do is pointing fingers, talk about war and disdain for any of the two factions?

If the people from the top don't want to act for peace, then is up to us to show them that we want change, unfortunately we still not ready for change, there still many open wounds that need healing, many minds that need to be free of the pest I call hate, and most importantly we need leaders and people of peace. All this while still realizing that the conditions on the ground at the present are what they are, this is not 1930, not 1940, not 1980, not even 2000, people need to grow up and deal with this facts and start throwing out there some realistic options to bring peace and the chance for a decent live to all the people that has gotten caught in the middle of this horrible mess.



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