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The US is at war with WHO? (Can you answer the questions?)

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posted on Jul, 27 2007 @ 03:57 AM
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I read the threads on the war in Iraq, and get an overwhelming urge to pound my head off the desk. Most of you here are so caught up in whichever side of the politics you subscribe to, that you've never researched beyond the surface of what this war is about, and has always been about. Here are some questions for you:

Question #1: What was the US' previous involvement in Afganistan in the past 25 years? How did this involve Bin Laden? How could this previous involvement be involved in the current conflicts and the "War on Terror?"

Question #2: What reasons, beyond the falsely stated greed, could the US NEED to be in Iraq? What countries are currently aiding the insurgence? (And, according to some reports, manning/training it?) MORE IMPORTANTLY (!!) what countries are backing THOSE countries? Who supplied emergency medical aid to Iraqi officials during the invasion? Who's been stealing our secrets? Where did Iran get their nuclear tech? And what has the previous involvement of the US been with those countries? Why would the US not want to openly fight against those countries and, instead, fight a war by proxy? Who was the US fighting the last time it fought a war by proxy?

Question #3: What major social movements have had an enormous impact on US society in the past 75 years? Who were the key players in these movements, and what were their connections? What inspired McCarthyism?

Question #4: Does it all make sense now?

Warfare has many guises, and is fought on many fronts. Forget your preconceived notions and social allegiances, and focus on the facts of the past 100 years that have lead us here. The items I pointed to are but a portion of the picture, but enough to clear things up a little. The Great Wars might be done, but the world has never been done with war.

(P.S.: I hope it does not violate any TOS to repost a comment from a previous thread as a new thread. I simply thought it might be more effective as a new thread.)




posted on Jul, 27 2007 @ 04:28 AM
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Originally posted by saturnine_sweet

Question #1: What was the US' previous involvement in Afganistan in the past 25 years? How did this involve Bin Laden? How could this previous involvement be involved in the current conflicts and the "War on Terror?"


From what I have heard, american forces trained Bin Laden and his group of freedom fighters in an attempt to help them oust the communist Russian rule. There is no war on terror, just as there was no war on communism...well...maybe there was a war on communism...the war on terror was simply created as a reason to invade muslim countries to secure their natural resources. I myself believe Israel and america were behind the whole 9-11 thing to begin with. Bin Laden just got the blame, much like Saddam got the blame. Do you personally have any info on what Saddam or Bin Laden have done? No. We all get our info from the media, a very biased media that possibly lies to make america look like the good guys in any conflict.



Question #2: What reasons, beyond the falsely stated greed, could the US NEED to be in Iraq? What countries are currently aiding the insurgence? (And, according to some reports, manning/training it?) MORE IMPORTANTLY (!!) what countries are backing THOSE countries? Who supplied emergency medical aid to Iraqi officials during the invasion? Who's been stealing our secrets? Where did Iran get their nuclear tech? And what has the previous involvement of the US been with those countries? Why would the US not want to openly fight against those countries and, instead, fight a war by proxy? Who was the US fighting the last time it fought a war by proxy?


Well....WMD's are why we are in Iraq...remember?
Nahh....we needed Iraq in order to surround Iran, the ultimate goal. Iran is probobly offering aid to the insurgence, it would be in their best interest, just as it would be in their best interest to have nukes they could point at us and say "DON'T COME NEAR ME!" I fully reccomend any country not seeking to be one day taken over and controlled by america to start their own WMD program. and what exactly is a war by proxy?



Question #3: What major social movements have had an enormous impact on US society in the past 75 years? Who were the key players in these movements, and what were their connections? What inspired McCarthyism?


Past 75 years? Can't say, don't even want to think about that one. Let's focus on the last 20 years, the key players in that are obviously the Bush's and the Clintons. Ofcourse Hillary is going to win the next election....being the first woman running and all. That would mean that possibly for 24 years, our country has been run by a Bush or a Clinton, and I believe both families are in cahoots. and McCarthyism was inspired by none other than McCarthy.




Question #4: Does it all make sense now?


It always has to me. It is really all about money and power, that is all that really matters in the world. I myself need nothing but a little smokie here and there to be in a perfect world, but most "need" alot of things. Money is worthless, plants are my money.



posted on Jul, 27 2007 @ 08:46 AM
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Saturnine_sweet,

Interesting thread; I think you've raised some very pertinent questions, and are beginning to touch on some of the "real" reasons for the war in Iraq.

However, to imply that the war in Iraq is merely a war "by proxy" against Russia and/or China is to over simplify complicated world events and strategies and ignore other major factors.

First, the long term goal of one world under Sharia law, and the short term goal of a completely Muslim Middle East with no western influence, of Islamic extremists DOES play a large part in this. Afterall, unless you buy into the 9/11 conspiracies it was Muslim extremists who attacked the US on 9/11 and gave the impetus for the war. (As a side note to this: I believe Russia is making the same mistake in supporting Iran that the US made in supporting the Mujahaddein in the Afghan war. What happens when Muslim fanatics get nukes, and decide that Russia needs to keep the hell out of the Middle East and "Muslim" lands as well?)

Secondly, Oil, like it or not, plays a part in this as well. As the world's economies expand in the 21st century access to cheap oil becomes more and more important. China, Russia, Europe, India and the US have all had amazing growth in their economies, greatly increasing the demand for oil. So again, this cannot be ignored when discussing the Middle East and it's strategic importance.

With all that said, I do agree with you that the US took into consideration the Russian and Chinese influence in the region when they decided to invade Iraq. However, I also believe that it was oil and it's increasing importance to the world economies that played a major part in the decision as well. Further, add to that the inherent instability of the Middle East, and the solid strategic foothold that American bases in Iraq would give the US in the region and I believe you start to scratch the surface of why the US invaded.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that this is ONLY a war for oil, and that the WMDs were a completely trumped up excuse to invade Iraq. I'm simply saying that it was ONE of the factors in the decision to invade, and to ignore it is naive.



posted on Jul, 27 2007 @ 02:27 PM
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Cypher

"War for Oil"

Explain HOW? The war has significantly reduced Iraqi oil output, and isn't likely to change the availability of the oil to the US any time in the near future. The primary aspect of the influence of oil in said war was more that it was allowing extensive financing of various pursuits of the previous regime. Oh, and, of course, the oil for food scandal. Hm...I wonder what countries were involved in that?

"War by Proxy"

Since the end of WW II, the US has moved more and more towards wars that are either a), fought by another group to support US interests (Israel, Afgan freedom fighters, etc.) This only increased following the backlash from the Vietnam conflict and the loss of any real ability to stage a draft. In reference to Iraq, it is a war by proxy because the true enemy is the countries supporting the insurgence.

The desire to institute religious law on all infidels by the radical Muslims is not new. It's as old as Islam. But tell me...how much of a threat would they be, if not supported by other countries? Who would arm the insurgents, if Russia wasn't supplying arms? Who would train them, if Iran and Syria didn't? Where would Iran get nuclear capabilities, if Russia didn't sell such secrets to them? They pose no threat, on their own. Their danger is that they are the ultimate proxy army. Willing to gladly die for the cause. Even if the cause is serving the supplying countries interest.

As for 9/11, it doesn't really matter WHO was responsible. Muslim terrorists? Well, again, trace the trail of support back. Do you really think OBL and his cronies have an intelligence network capable of permitting them to have the knowledge to pull that off? Not likely. Inside job? Well, then who are they working for? That's where social movements of the past 75 years and McCarthyism comes into play.



posted on Jul, 27 2007 @ 02:32 PM
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saintnuke

Bin Laden was a pawn. A pawn who wanted power and money. If one side can buy you...so can the other, for a higher price. And, pray tell, who would be more qualified, more in the know, amongst perspective middle eastern proxy warriors?

I think I am only going to answer that one, as, from that point on, you really started to ignore what you didnt want to address and began really parroting political dogma. Discuss the points, or move along. I'll debate if Im right or not...but dogma doesn't take the debate anywhere.

To close, it is completely foolish and borderline willful ignorance to say that this is a "Bush/Clinton" sham and has nothing to do with the cold war, or the maneuvering that occurred in the wake of the World Wars. If you do not know your past, you cannot know your present, or comprehend your future.

Here's a new question: Why do you think the powers that be are loathe to point out these obvious connections?



posted on Jul, 27 2007 @ 02:46 PM
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The US is at war with WHO? (Can you answer the questions?)

The question is not "with who?", but "with what?".

The answer is "freedom".

Peace



posted on Jul, 27 2007 @ 03:37 PM
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I can tell you this simply: The U.S is at war with Terrorism, Drugs, and itself.



posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 03:51 AM
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It's pretty disappointing when only two people have actually bothered to address the subject. One does not deny ignorance well by parroting the rhetoric of others.



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