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F22 software problems, Japan plans to design its own stealth, Israel to buy Raptors.

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posted on Mar, 14 2008 @ 11:47 AM

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Besides the obvious reason why such a deal is very unlikely

Why is it very unlikely?

Because you say so?

Relationships change, it is a similar arrogance to that of Boeing to assume alternative suppliers will not be considered.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
we do not know the capabilities of this Russian next generation fighter.

Indeed we do not.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Japan cannot afford to wait that long anyway, a platform will likely be chosen end of the decade.

Sure they can.

If they are talking of building their own, then they'll need at least that long to get it into service. Probably 1.5x the time.

posted on Mar, 14 2008 @ 03:29 PM
Japan may produce the most cool, useless gadgets.

But that doesn't mean it's the most creative.

It means the United States looks for areas to apply it to currently existing systems. Not many U.S. companies are known for putting out innovations for the sake of being innovations.

posted on Mar, 14 2008 @ 03:31 PM
As someone else pointed out when this came up in chat..... Please tell me exactly what other countries operate the F-117 and B-2s. The F-22 will NOT be made available for Foreign Military Sale. Not even to Israel. If the F-117 is 30 years old and we're STILL the only country it's available to, then the F-22 isn't going to be sold off either, even in a "dumbed down" variant.

posted on Mar, 14 2008 @ 05:13 PM
Actually I am fairly certain the F-117 was offered to the UK.
Somewhere I have artwork of an F-117 in RAF markings from the proposal.

IIRC the UK turned it down for budgetary reasons.

Nobody else on Earth is crazy enough to buy anything as expensive as the B-2 anyway.

I expect that F-22, however, will be sold to some allies eventually, most likely Japan or Australia.

Not Israel - that would almost as bad as selling it to China directly

If it's the only way for the USAF to keep the F-22 production line open, I suspect that Pentagon opposition to overseas sales will wane rapidly.

It's also never wise to discount the political power & influence of defense contractors in these kinds of decisions.

[edit on 3/14/08 by xmotex]

posted on Mar, 14 2008 @ 05:33 PM
It was offered to them in the 1990s, after it was already 20 years old. There were five RAF pilots that flew them as well, out of US bases. They started training in the very early 90s IIRC.

But what's the point of keeping the line open if the USAF isn't buying any? Gordon England (who hates the F-22) has already said that they are going to be authorized to buy four more than planned. And no more than that.

[edit on 3/14/2008 by Zaphod58]

posted on Mar, 14 2008 @ 05:46 PM
Gordon England isn't going to matter a year from now.
And the military leadership in the Air Force apparently still wants more F-22's.

The winds are blowing against foreign sales of the F-22 now, but that may well change.

posted on Mar, 14 2008 @ 05:51 PM
Of course they do, because the F-15s are falling out of the sky. But the FMS isn't going to change for years. The AF isn't dumb. We don't sell our top of the line weapon systems until they've been around for awhile, and then they're not the same as we fly.

posted on Mar, 14 2008 @ 06:14 PM
The F-117A was offered to the UK in the late 1980`s - when it was still black - the UK didn`t reject it on budget grounds , but mission requirements - , the RAF doesn`t have a massive amount of aircraft so they have to bring the best `bang for your buck` - and whilst it was the best (and like only) stealth aircraft for its time - the Nighthawk didn`t and doesn`t fit with the mission of the RAF - simply , 2 bombs for 1 mission isn`t enough for the RAF.

posted on Mar, 14 2008 @ 06:15 PM
All the sources I've found on it say it was in the 1990s when it was offered to the RAF. I know it was in the early 1990s when RAF pilots started to fly it.

posted on Mar, 14 2008 @ 11:36 PM

Originally posted by Harlequin
the Nighthawk didn`t and doesn`t fit with the mission of the RAF - simply , 2 bombs for 1 mission isn`t enough for the RAF.

State your source for the above claim on why it was "rejected". Also, your logic makes no sense. Two bombs from the only aircraft at the time able to freely penetrate such hostile areas is better than a squadron of aircraft each carrying twelve bombs being shot down before they reach their target.

posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 06:07 AM
reply to post by WestPoint23

Its not that simple Westy and Harlequin is right. Remember the RAF is really very small by comparison with the USAF and our defence budget extremely stretched. We already had to retire the Jaguar on purely cost grounds and that was revered in the RAF as its most readily deployable close support aircraft. In order for the RAF to operate even a small number of F-117's something else would have to go and with the F-117 being not only highly specialised but also very maintainence intensive the RAF would, overall, lose too much to make it worthwhile.

To extend your own scenario slightly, what would be the point of scrapping a squadron of Tornadoes to buy maybe 6 F-117's that are in bits in the hangar for most of the time and cannot be used and even when they are available do not meet the mission requirements for 90% of RAF ops, this also applied with the USAF, but with the much bigger resources of the USAF it was a luxury that could be justified.

posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 08:28 AM
What would ahve been more usefull would have been to get a squadronish of the low hours F-111s. That would fulfill the bomb truck role of the tornado without putting either a f-35 or Typhoon in harms way.


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