AP: New Details on Tillman's Death

AP: New Details on Tillman's Death

www.guardian.co.uk

Army medical examiners were suspicious about the close proximity of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman's forehead and tried without success to get authorities to investigate whether the former NFL player's death amounted to a crime, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press.

"The medical evidence did not match up with the, with the scenario as described,'' a doctor who examined Tillman's body after he was killed on the battlefield in Afghanistan in 2004 told investigators.

(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.washingtonpost.com
www.abcnews.go.com
www.msnbc.msn.com

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
Panel Demands Records on Tillman's Death

Well, I'm not quite sure what to make of this...
It's one thing to LIE about Tillman's death for war support,
but was it possible he was murdered??

Tillman's mother, Mary Tillman, who has long suggested that her son was deliberately killed by his comrades, said she is still looking for answers and looks forward to the congressional hearings next week.

"Nothing is going to bring Pat back. It's about justice for Pat and justice for other soldiers. The nation has been deceived,'' she said.

This is very concerning, especially if top US officials
are involved in covering up a possible murder.

I'd like to hear what ya'll have to say,
but please read the article first.

www.guardian.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

Previous thread:

The White House has refused to give Congress documents about the death of former NFL player Pat Tillman, with White House counsel Fred F. Fielding saying that certain papers relating to discussion of the friendly-fire shooting "implicate Executive Branch confidentiality interests."

Now I'm asking you ATS'ers, what's going on here?

Is the White House implicated somehow in Pat Tillman's possible murder?

Originally posted by aecreate

Is the White House implicated somehow in Pat Tillman's possible murder?

Most likely.
I know you said read the article, but its getting late and I will have to do that first thing in the morning.
Yes he was most likely murdered.
If it were simple fratricide then there would be no need to cover it up, as fratricide is a part of war.
On the other hand, if it was murder, then you would need key players and a major cover up during AND afterwards, which appears to be what we had and are having.

Good thread

ETA I just glanced over the article on MSNBC about it.

Shot 3 times in the forehead.

If that aint murder then Cain didnt kill Able.



[edit on 26-7-2007 by 11Bravo]

I read the article and I am still puzzled as to why he would have been killed by friendly fire. Does that mean someone accidentally discharged their weapon because they were frightened or something?

I think anyone who goes into these combat situations deserves utmost respect even more so for volunteering to go. I have never understood why you would cover it up if it was an accident.

Can anyone shed light on the possible reason for an intentional killing by your own troops?

I think I made that point in another post, the murder idea, glad someone else sees it that way. But what sticks with me the most was when I was reading about it, and the one soldier was talking about hearing water running and it was blood. When he looked over, Tilman's head was basically blown off. That still sticks with me, the fact that he could have been murdered because he would have garnered more support because he was someone who turned down millions because he did what he thought was right. I've also hearded the angle that he found out something he wasn't supposed to know and was going to expose it, therefore he was eliminated. Either way, a brave soldier died, and it was a pretty gruesome act for his family to indure and some of the soldiers that where friends with him. Really sad, really sad...

Couple of problems i have with this article. First it's the Guardian. Thier editorial slant is as far left as WND is right. Second, wasn't Tillman's brother in the same unit or a nearby unit? I have a brother and if i had even an inkling someone murdered (not fratricide) my brother I'd be headed for a murder trial myself, especially in a combat zone where i could possibly get away with it. Third there are really only a couple of rifle rounds used in any NATO army, the 5.56mm and the 7.62mm. It has to be a 5.56mm in question because multiple 7.62mm in close proximity would not leave much of a head left. The article only mentions the M-16 as the possible weapon used in this event. The M-16/M-4 is not the only 5.56mm weapon carried in an infantry squad. The M-249 SAW also fires a 5.56mm round, and it only fires full auto (never carried one and only fired one a couple of times for familiarization so if it has a burst setting don't flame me). If you've never fired either of these weapons you would be amazed at how light the recoil is. I've honest to God seen people rest the butt of the M-16 on thier cheek and fire it without harm to demonstrate the light recoil(the first time was a female no less at that). The shot grouping of both of these weapons is very tight on burst/auto particularly at ranges less than 100m, and if it was an M-249 it could have very easily missed a few landed a few missed few during the engagement (rate of fire for M-249 is very high). A single burst from an M-16/M-4 could put several rounds in a tight grouping especially at ranges under 100m. This seems to me to be an article solely for the purpose of stirring anger at the Bush administation, perhaps Mrs. Tillman has aspirations of being the next Cindy Sheehan.

All that being said, do i believe there was a cover-up? Absolutely, mainly of the CYA type. What platoon/company/battalion commander would want to be forever remembered as the one who was in command while a true American hero was killed by his comrades? Do i believe the cover-up reaches the highest levels of the admin? Yep, that too, we learned from the Jessica Lynch fiasco that this admin would spin a tragic but real story into a tale of made up heroism for political gain/propaganda in a heartbeat. The lack of names of the Doc that performed the autopsy also leads me to call BS on this. I've got the feeling that all the military people involve in the friendly fire cover up were following orders from thier civillian commanders.

Theory: Tillman witnessed atrocities or other disturbing incidents in Afghanistan. He was troubled by what he saw and wanted to go public with it. His celebrity status would guarantee wide media coverage if he did. Therefore, he became the "man who knew too much" who had to be eliminated.

If the article's statements about Tillman's last words are true. I really don't think the"seen too much theory" flies. Tillman didn't join the Army to be a humanitarian soldier (medic, civil affairs, water purification etc....) he joined the Infantry and the Rangers no less. They have one primary job, to kill the enemies of this nation. In Iraq combat arms units have been tasked with a myriad of nation building tasks due to the lack of foresight by the architects of this war. In the line infantry units that are tasked with these duties, I am sure do the best they can with what they have. I highly doubt Ranger units are used to do that much pressing the flesh and winning hearts and minds. It would be a waste of the time and money spent to train them.

Tillman's mother : "Nothing is going to bring Pat back. It's about justice for Pat and justice for other soldiers. The nation has been deceived,'' she said.

Ruh Roh.

This story has been a long time in the making. I expect nothing less than a spectacular ending.

Originally posted by uberarcanist
Theory: Tillman witnessed atrocities or other disturbing incidents in Afghanistan. He was troubled by what he saw and wanted to go public with it. His celebrity status would guarantee wide media coverage if he did. Therefore, he became the "man who knew too much" who had to be eliminated.

This is exactly how I feel about this situation as well. The guy had the tenactiy to follow through with what he believed in. The same thing that got him there would have been the same thing that made him want to leave. His Character.

I see a Pat Tillman comission being formed in the future. People hand picked by the current administration to investigate this.

They'll no doubt try to tell us how we should concentrate on figuring out a way to keep this from happening again, and not concentrate on the crime itself.

I think he was ordered to do something, refused, and was summarily executed.

Peace

This is HUGE folks!

A general will most probably be demoted because of this case.

All news articles about the probable demotion

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought I had read that his (Tillman's) unit was tasked with guarding poppy fields and he wanted to go public about it?

I thought I read that on ATS somewhere. I will look for the post and edit this reply with a link.

Edit - I can't seem to find this.. so I must be mistaken.




[edit on 27-7-2007 by DerekJR321]

ESPN radio had Pats mom on a couple of months ago. She was certain that Pats death wasn't and "accident". If any of you who might have been listening to the Dan Patrick show that day you would have remembered that AFTER he was "shot in action" that his tent was raided and all his personal belongings were confiscated and went over with a fine tooth comb. And on top of this his personal journal that he kept was burned. Pat had written his mom with ALOT of doubts and worries about why this administration was about to launch a war with Iraq. She also stated that several of his letters he had made comments that the things he had witnessed he couldn't write down in his mail and would inform his mom when he got home that he carried a heavey burden as to why he had signed up for this war and why it was being carried out. Pat being the type person he was he signed up because he thought America was worth fighting for and once his eye's were opened he felt that he could make a difference to those who have lost their life so that the truth be told to the families that have suffered so many lies. Thank Pat's mom for being brave enough to stand up to this governement about what had happened to her son.

Maybe for some strange reason it was not a murder, but someone wants everybody to think it was. . .

Wouldn't that feed the anti-war fire?

2PacSade-

Another angle...

How convenient that more Pat Tillman stuff makes the mainstream news circuit the week that the Bush admin is in such trouble and Rove is actually subpoenaed.

Bits of information trickling out over the last three years... you'd think the MSM was trying to get the proles to focus on some sports/infotainment figure instead of the current leadership or something.
.

While it would be nice to believe that it wasn't murder, there are too many "odd" circumstances surrounding this. When has the President EVER asserted Executive Privilege in the investigation over a fratricide case? What exactly are they trying to hide?

Originally posted by DerekJR321
While it would be nice to believe that it wasn't murder, there are too many "odd" circumstances surrounding this. When has the President EVER asserted Executive Privilege in the investigation over a fratricide case? What exactly are they trying to hide?

My sentiments exactly. Just like all the other allegations made against this administrations actions, if there's nothing shady going on, clear the air. Leaving the mystery out there forces us to speculate, and nobody's going to speculate in a favorable light about the Bush administration.

First post, Lurked awhile.

How about this angle.

Pat stumbled upon the unfortunate fact that war is pooy and pooy people run the war. Those pooy people make good people "Like Pat" do terrible things.

They killed him for it. It is not unheard of from any administration or government.

Then they tried to make it a big "Fallen Hero" story. Like this administration does time and time again. They screwed up the cover-up. Now they are backpedalling and still trying to use it whatever advantage they can.

Shame really. I am proud of Pats mother. I guess we know where he got his courage and character.

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 27/7/2007 by Mirthful Me]